Have any of you DIY COB Growers finished a crop under 1000W DE HPS? - POLL
- Thread starter OneHitDone
- Start date
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't bother with that guy, he's constantly making up claims with no sources to backup his claims.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Rebates reduce installation cost. Efficiency reduces operating costs.
Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
Installation costs.
CobKits
Well-Known Member
time=new information
DIY has HPS beat on 3 year operating cost for awhile now. sounds like the 'hybrid fixtures' can do that now. (imma go out on a limb and call HLGs 'hybrid fixtures', not because they arent professional, or a compromise in the slightest, but rather because they come from grass-roots DIY tech and are a departure from the usual "sales-driven" approach. They are not the first "data-driven" solution to come down the line, but to-date, one of the best imo)
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CannaBruh
Well-Known Member
Maybe if you don't include labor, (sourcing parts, receiving the parts, assembling the parts etc)
@ $100/hr there's no way I can build a light for less than I can buy one off the shelf (LED) and at those rates, those off the shelf product that are available today are not competing with the low price point of the other HID (DE etc)
That didn't stop me from building several, I enjoy this shit
I do value @CobKits your metrics in "3 year operating cost" etc, these are going to be a more clear comparison vs HPS is cheaper than LED or LED is more efficient than HPS/T5 etc. We need numbers and results over time to draw a more clear picture of the savings and I think that you're onto those metrics that will paint the picture more clearly in the future.
@ $100/hr there's no way I can build a light for less than I can buy one off the shelf (LED) and at those rates, those off the shelf product that are available today are not competing with the low price point of the other HID (DE etc)
That didn't stop me from building several, I enjoy this shit
I do value @CobKits your metrics in "3 year operating cost" etc, these are going to be a more clear comparison vs HPS is cheaper than LED or LED is more efficient than HPS/T5 etc. We need numbers and results over time to draw a more clear picture of the savings and I think that you're onto those metrics that will paint the picture more clearly in the future.
Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
Great contribution....... Talk out of your rear much??? How about talk about things you are knowledgeable in? How can you speak for me? You have no clue what I'm talking about because no one knows currently. It's coming..... Really fast too. I'll post pics and Sphere data in two to three weeks.
Will you admit you are wrong if proven so??? Just asking if you are man enough to admit when you are wrong?
Meanwhile an established MSRP isn't set in stone when it comes to 100+ fixture installation..... Not even close as a matter of fact. Yes we can supply a commercial grow with well over 2 umol/$ at an incredible efficiency. Couple that with ETL and IP65 and you have a great fixture at an awesome price..... To make the total facility cost be = or less we have to look at HVAC installation costs. With these two metrics alone we can give DE a run for it's money cost of installation wise..... Now that didn't consider the utility rebates that are the icing on the cake.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
Easier to attack me and make up more things than to actually cite sources and show real world data, you have no evidence, once again you're making stuff up off the head with no data or evidence to backup your claims.
Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
We have put up data. I'm not going to do your homework but we posted sphere data..... Now your turn to contribute.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Taking shit is cheap and easy. Building something truly new is hard, and delivering it at an aggressive price is even harder.
Ignore the naysayers; after all, they still try to convince us men can't fly and we've never gone to the Moon.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
Do you have a link to a grow or actual real world comparisons that you can show? If not it's completely hypothetical.
Saying things like
Without ANYTHING to back it up such as grow logs, and actual data of how much the cost differences are show you have no basis to your argument, it's pure conjecture. HID operating costs are not that much, this whole thing where you think you can use half the wattage to equal a DE light is bs, that will decrease yield substantially which has been PROVEN on grow logs in this very forum , also utility rebates are dependant on your lighting company that's not a nationwide thing, everything you say is complete hypothetical in the best situtation possible to favor the LEDs, when you factor costs you use the HIGHEST electric costs in the nation(dispensaries pay some of the lowest rates cause they pay for commerical electric.) Your whole argument is based on made up stuff you thought of and situations that rarely apply in real life. Here's one of such logs showing the huge decrease in yield between DE and QUALITY COB
https://www.rollitup.org/t/test-room-de-hps-vs-citizen-cobs.935306/
See how i back up my argument with sources? If you plan to respond to me, have data and sources you can cite or your posts will be ignored from now on.
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Enigma
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't trust those results.
Neither light was isolated and the HPS was sideways dumping light towards the LED panels. They even mention that in the second video.
This not a day-by-day record of the development and the actual yield. Instead, they just put some numbers on a screen.
Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
Your argument is once again wrong.... I said installation costs (meaning electrical costs not calculated and also I said the rebates are icing on the cake meaning we can match the installation cost without the rebates).... Also a grow journal on a forum is not proof at all. Too many variables...... The INDUSTRY STANDARD is ppf and until someone comes up with something better that's what every single big azzz company uses to detail what you are getting for your money.
DID YOU EVEN READ MY POST BEFORE RESPONDING?
You just argue to hear yourself talk.... Seriously I'm not answering any more of your questions.......
COGNITIVE BIAS much????
I'm not arguing anything else with you..... Bring me a bid from Gavita for a 1000 light installation with qty discount and I'll gladly show everyone here what we can do an equivalent installation for.... MSRP of a Gavita is 699.00 btw.... Will a commercial grow operation pay that? Hell no. MSRP of HLG-550 Elite is 1549.00.... Yes that's a big cost difference. If you know anything about wholesale retail (which I seriously doubt you do) you'll know that I can do 1000 lights for 1/2 the retail price so can Gavita. So the difference in cost per fixture is roughly $400..... Every 6.4 fixtures saves 1 Ton of HVAC installation..... How much is a current grow op paying per Ton is the question. From what I gather it's around $2500-$3000..... $2500/6.4= $390 per fixture.....
So now you see the numbers..... Oh and if you say I can't replace the DEs with 550 watts well sit back and enjoy the show. 2.8+ umol/j coming up.
Moflow
Well-Known Member
Touche!
The pen is mightier than the sword
Enigma
Well-Known Member
I have yet to see any LED panel compete with any HID of any design or wattage.
From what I've seen, from what knna explained in great detail, LED fixtures are not powerful enough to replace a HID. They are, however, perfect for vegetative growth and cloning.
If you cannot circumvent the heat a HID produces, the cost is too high to operate or your space is too small then LED is your best option to flower.
If you can run a HID, run one.
From what I've seen, from what knna explained in great detail, LED fixtures are not powerful enough to replace a HID. They are, however, perfect for vegetative growth and cloning.
If you cannot circumvent the heat a HID produces, the cost is too high to operate or your space is too small then LED is your best option to flower.
If you can run a HID, run one.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Then you haven't been looking, because the very LED panels you say don't exist are settling this site.I have yet to see any LED panel compete with any HID of any design or wattage.
From what I've seen, from what knna explained in great detail, LED fixtures are not powerful enough to replace a HID. They are, however, perfect for vegetative growth and cloning.
If you cannot circumvent the heat a HID produces, the cost is too high to operate or your space is too small then LED is your best option to flower.
If you can run a HID, run one.
This post is therefore another blatant attempt to troll and should be ignored by everyone who takes things like scientific data and cost analysis seriously.
Enigma
Well-Known Member
Show me a side by side. Day by day, strictly controlled environment, same strain and feeds in the same medium.
You'll cry when you see the LED not only take longer but produce less weight.
As I've clearly stated before, there has yet to be any evidence that shows any LED panel in existence that can compete with a HID.
Give it a few more years, let the technology advance more, LED are still in the birthing stage.
You'll cry when you see the LED not only take longer but produce less weight.
As I've clearly stated before, there has yet to be any evidence that shows any LED panel in existence that can compete with a HID.
Give it a few more years, let the technology advance more, LED are still in the birthing stage.
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
Hurry, we have to leave NOW!, the time machine won't wait, if you don't go now you won't get back to 2007!Show me a side by side. Day by day, strictly controlled environment, same strain and feeds in the same medium.
You'll cry when you see the LED not only take longer but produce less weight.
As I've clearly stated before, there has yet to be any evidence that shows any LED panel in existence that can compete with a HID.
Give it a few more years, let the technology advance more, LED are still in the birthing stage.
Enigma
Well-Known Member
2007? Back then LED wasn't nearly as advanced as they are now and I have yet to see any evidence that shows LED outperforms HID, otherwise I would have built a panel based on knna's detailed explanation of LED and the drivers.
They make great veg and clone lamps, thry are also great for micro/stealth grows.
They make great veg and clone lamps, thry are also great for micro/stealth grows.