How much does genetics really matter for seeds? How much of it is a scam?

conor c said:

eventually it will be so easy and definitely beat dispensary stuff

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This can only be the case if you run into rare pheno stuff. How many plants on average do you have to grow to find one pheno like that? The amount of money and effort to find that one I would probably give up along the way unless I find her quickly. It's disappointing to have to raise a plant and have it be something you don't want to smoke. People sometimes charge like 200/250 even 500 for 10 seeds nowadays and it's crazy knowing that you will be spending that to grow some schwag. Like I wish weed growing could be like fishing. In saltwater fishing you can go spend 1000 dollars on one rod and reel easily. Thousands on a whole set of gear. And with that gear if you go fishing around a couple times a month and spend a few hundred on your trip each you will get your trophy fish in one season.

Fire on youtube. This guy, don't know who he is, selling 1000 for a zip. Oreoz or something like that. Wonder how it is. The girl looks sort of stoned at the end.

Fire

DanKiller said:

Good, if you cant change you color/height or anything else that can't be changed, just improve as you said, you can't take a plant that don't make you high and change that, not how reality works.
You can improve structure with better growing, leaf size, rate of growth or anything else that said plant does have, even in minor qtys, but you can't change or improve something thats NOT THERE.
And if you refute that I challenge you to take a shit smoke pheno that has no effect and grow that pheno like a champ, report to us if that pheno is now worth smoking or not..
We're waiting

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Dog i will take whatever seeds you want to throw me and pull something good out of them. It %100 is almost always on the grower these days. You MAY come across a real land race strain that actually has some fucked up genetics but that is so rare and even then, a good grower WILL be able to make some half decent bud. Its just gonna be leafy and mid. A average grower won't even make it that far. I've seen amazing growers take plants that were practically dead and they come back banging. Blaming things on genetics when its YOU that is the problem in today's age is so rich. Its just like lifting weights (I've been at that for over a decade now) everyone thinks oh I can't gain weight oh I can't lose weight. Everyone looks at me like wow he's so lucky. No. Sorry. I have sub par genetics everywhere except for gaining weight. I've never been strong or naturally lean. But guess what? Put in the work and you'll make something of your genetics that you never thought possible. Its the same with plants. I went from 240 lbs at almost 5'9 to a ripped 160 and I have been even lower bw than that at a time. People always want to blame genetics or the seeds in growing case, and that doesn't make you a better person or grower. It just doesn't. You are better than you think. Your plants, especially these days, are far better than what you think. Its seriously rare you find a shitter seed like idek how you get them anymore. Even white label stuff you buy bulk for $2 a seed is amazing bud. And it gets better. The ceilings high as fuck. You just have to be good enough to bring it there when it's not a easy start.

You can not compare plant seeds to humans, they can not learn, only adapt. I would like to know the things you will do as a grower to change the outcome of that poor seed as it grows? I know of only one way to do that and it is not how you grow it. Once a seed line falls below a certain level of potency it is almost impossible to bring it back without outcrossing it to a more potent line. If you can not find a more potent line to cross to then it will take many generations and a lot of luck to restore. I am sorry to inform you it does not take thousands of plants to breed fire, as I said you have been miss informed. It takes starting with the right seeds and making the right selections under the right conditions. No strain that I have was started with more than ten seeds sometimes way fewer. I have not been able to make 100% fire seeds, they all will be good but only about 10% will be fire. And my definition of fire is very strict if it takes more than two normal hits it is culled from breeding. The mother of this clone was a 10 inch tall ak47, bag seeds in situ.

smokerjimbob said:

Fire on youtube. This guy, don't know who he is, selling 1000 for a zip. Oreoz or something like that. Wonder how it is. The girl looks sort of stoned at the end.

Fire

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Its bs just like the seed industry. People think its okay to sell seeds at 100+ a pack when you can get literal thousands of seeds from 2 plants (male and female). Its artifical inflation. I understand to a point why select breeders have to do so, because they aren't giant corporations that have warehouses and those said corporations steal the names of the real breeders. But its still artifical pricing and it only fucks the consumer. Everyone else in the business makes money at inflated rates. Same goes for bud. Over inflated prices.

decrepit digits said:

You can not compare plant seeds to humans, they can not learn, only adapt. I would like to know the things you will do as a grower to change the outcome of that poor seed as it grows? I know of only one way to do that and it is not how you grow it. Once a seed line falls below a certain level of potency it is almost impossible to bring it back without outcrossing it to a more potent line. If you can not find a more potent line to cross to then it will take many generations and a lot of luck to restore. I am sorry to inform you it does not take thousands of plants to breed fire, as I said you have been miss informed. It takes starting with the right seeds and making the right selections under the right conditions. No strain that I have was started with more than ten seeds sometimes way fewer. I have not been able to make 100% fire seeds, they all will be good but only about 10% will be fire. And my definition of fire is very strict if it takes more than two normal hits it is culled from breeding. The mother of this clone was a 10 inch tall ak47, bag seeds in situ.

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I'm not saying %100 of you beans are gonna be bangers but growers who are able to put their knowledge into them can pull above average bud out of shit tier plants. Exhibit A. Hermied plants, plants that grow like shit in general can often produce the most potent bud. This isn't as black and white as people make it out to be. Exhibit B. People don't generally have the knowledge required because most people ( like in the gym) give up as they deem it a waste of time. And sometimes it is. But look back to A for why it might not be. Exhibit C. Ask any professional athlete how easy it was to become good at what they do. Its not supposed to be easy.

Now I'm my opinion the market is flooded with amazing genetics. Ofc its not gonna be YOUR favorite smoke, but your not getting shit like back in the 80s and earlier. Its just not there unless you seek it out. Even 2$ white label seeds can be extremely potent. What people assume to be bad, they usually just ditch. I don't blame them. But myself? I want to pull all the traits out of even bad plants because that could be the banger your looking for, it just grows like shit.

Experienced growers actually already know this if you ask them.

smokerjimbob said:

This is usually how life tends to work.

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Quitting when things are hard is why few people manage to do amazing things even when they try. Thats a thing growing plants too.

zoomer428 said:

Its bs just like the seed industry. People think its okay to sell seeds at 100+ a pack when you can get literal thousands of seeds from 2 plants (male and female). Its artifical inflation. I understand to a point why select breeders have to do so, because they aren't giant corporations that have warehouses and those said corporations steal the names of the real breeders. But its still artifical pricing and it only fucks the consumer. Everyone else in the business makes money at inflated rates. Same goes for bud. Over inflated prices.

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I spent thousands easily so far on equipment and seeds and haven't grown even schwag level. I feel had so far but things can change I guess on this current grow. If I get even high end mids this time, something I can at least smoke instead of going to the dispensary, I would be somewhat satisfied.

smokerjimbob said:

I spent thousands easily so far on equipment and seeds and haven't grown even schwag level. I feel had so far but things can change I guess on this current grow. If I get even high end mids this time, something I can at least smoke instead of going to the dispensary, I would be somewhat satisfied.

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You mean you've gotten below mid results? That's pretty surprising. I'm not joking when I say I've grown dozens upon dozens of $2 seeds and they've been amazing. A lot of its in the dry and cure process but I assume that's not your issue. You wanna drop your grow specs or did you do that somewhere here already? I'd be down to drop what knowledge I have.

zoomer428 said:

You mean you've gotten below mid results? That's pretty surprising. I'm not joking when I say I've grown dozens upon dozens of $2 seeds and they've been amazing. A lot of its in the dry and cure process but I assume that's not your issue. You wanna drop your grow specs or did you do that somewhere here already? I'd be down to drop what knowledge I have.

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Typical stuff for a 3X3. Mars Hydro. I use water only soil (purple cow/great lakes), the combo of fox farms nutes (2 teaspoons each to 2 gallons).

You're both arguing about something entirely subjective from nearly opposite sides of the spectrum. You have entirely different perspectives, based not only on experience and standards, but also brain chemistry.

I disagree with both of you, but that's my opinion. The only thing I want to do is grow some fire and share, but that's not on the table, so I wish you both the best of luck.

I recommend looking into everything you haven't been smoking. Mainly older sativas or sativa Dom hybrids. The majority of reputable breeders don't work those lines, and the white label seed banks hardly touch the stuff. I'm not saying you should grow the gear, its a means of changing perspective and seeing a totally different subset of the community.

Also, this upcoming collaboration of elite cut maristem tissue cultures may be of interest. https://www.the-grateful-head.com/about-us/

Tolerance Break said:

You're both arguing about something entirely subjective from nearly opposite sides of the spectrum. You have entirely different perspectives, based not only on experience and standards, but also brain chemistry.

I disagree with both of you, but that's my opinion. The only thing I want to do is grow some fire and share, but that's not on the table, so I wish you both the best of luck.

I recommend looking into everything you haven't been smoking. Mainly older sativas or sativa Dom hybrids. The majority of reputable breeders don't work those lines, and the white label seed banks hardly touch the stuff. I'm not saying you should grow the gear, its a means of changing perspective and seeing a totally different subset of the community.

Also, this upcoming collaboration of elite cut maristem tissue cultures may be of interest. https://www.the-grateful-head.com/about-us/

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What I'm arguing isn't subjective nor really an argument. In fact I think most people would agree.

Like you said, you have to quite literally seek out what are considered "bad" genetics. Its my point in fact. Everyone now adays wants it to be easy and streamlines. Well nothing started that way and everything you get now adays is in fact, pretty easy and streamlined. Its all good bud too

smokerjimbob said:

I spent thousands easily so far on equipment and seeds and haven't grown even schwag level. I feel had so far but things can change I guess on this current grow. If I get even high end mids this time, something I can at least smoke instead of going to the dispensary, I would be somewhat satisfied.

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If true; there's something fundamentally wrong with your growing or curing technique. and not related to genetics.

zoomer428 said:

What I'm arguing isn't subjective nor really an argument. In fact I think most people would agree.

Like you said, you have to quite literally seek out what are considered "bad" genetics. Its my point in fact. Everyone now adays wants it to be easy and streamlines. Well nothing started that way and everything you get now adays is in fact, pretty easy and streamlined. Its all good bud too

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It is an opinion, which is subjective by nature. Others certainly would agree, that doesn't make it objectively true.

I don't disagree with you entirely, I'm not saying your wrong, our opinions differ. That's okay, there would be little to learn if we all agreed.

smokerjimbob said:

Typical stuff for a 3X3. Mars Hydro. I use water only soil (purple cow/great lakes), the combo of fox farms nutes (2 teaspoons each to 2 gallons).

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I'm not familiar with that soil. What else would it be if not water? And your adding nutes so I'm kinda more confused because saying water only kinda implies no nutrients. Also if your growing in 2 gallon containers id switch to 5s. You really have to know how to grow in those smaller containers. Cannabis is like cars, they have a rpm range. As in, there's a certain time in a plants life cycle based on the conditions that the said plant will be best to flower in. If your flowers a rootbound girl in a 2 gallon after a month, things are gonna go sideways. I always try to flower when they still have some room to spread their roots.

smokerjimbob said:

This can only be the case if you run into rare pheno stuff. How many plants on average do you have to grow to find one pheno like that? The amount of money and effort to find that one I would probably give up along the way unless I find her quickly. It's disappointing to have to raise a plant and have it be something you don't want to smoke. People sometimes charge like 200/250 even 500 for 10 seeds nowadays and it's crazy knowing that you will be spending that to grow some schwag. Like I wish weed growing could be like fishing. In saltwater fishing you can go spend 1000 dollars on one rod and reel easily. Thousands on a whole set of gear. And with that gear if you go fishing around a couple times a month and spend a few hundred on your trip each you will get your trophy fish in one season.

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Way i see it your talking something special unicorn level those are rare but if you aint finding at least one nice plant in a pack of seeds somethings up they aint that rare ime

Tolerance Break said:

It is an opinion, which is subjective by nature. Others certainly would agree, that doesn't make it objectively true.

I don't disagree with you entirely, I'm not saying your wrong, our opinions differ. That's okay, there would be little to learn if we all agreed.

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Its not an opinion that today's genetics are better than yesterday's lol. Its also not an opinion that plants are able to be grown to their genetic ceiling and most people don't have the experience to do so.

I understand what your saying too. Its just that those aren't opinions. Its like saying older guitar players were better. Like I'm sorry thats just not true. They were the best in their time. We take and build upon them. We stand on the shoulders of giants. The opinion in all of this, however is the person saying that the older guitar players were better. Same thing for cannabis. In reality, THEY think they are better. Factually we have improved. Cannabis has improved. Guitar players have in fact, improved past jimis skill level. Its not to take away from the older crowd again we stand on the shoulders of giants. But you are taking away from the current generation by not saying they are on top of the game because they are.

zoomer428 said:

I'm not familiar with that soil. What else would it be if not water? And your adding nutes so I'm kinda more confused because saying water only kinda implies no nutrients. Also if your growing in 2 gallon containers id switch to 5s. You really have to know how to grow in those smaller containers. Cannabis is like cars, they have a rpm range. As in, there's a certain time in a plants life cycle based on the conditions that the said plant will be best to flower in. If your flowers a rootbound girl in a 2 gallon after a month, things are gonna go sideways. I always try to flower when they still have some room to spread their roots.

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I meant 2 teaspoons to 2 gallons of water. They are in 3 or 5 gallon fabric pots. I add a little bit of nutes because especially the Great Lakes soil is said to have deficiencies later in the grow.

zoomer428 said:

Its not an opinion that today's genetics are better than yesterday's lol. Its also not an opinion that plants are able to be grown to their genetic ceiling and most people don't have the experience to do so.

I understand what your saying too. Its just that those aren't opinions. Its like saying older guitar players were better. Like I'm sorry thats just not true. They were the best in their time. We take and build upon them. We stand on the shoulders of giants. The opinion in all of this, however is the person saying that the older guitar players were better. Same thing for cannabis. In reality, THEY think they are better. Factually we have improved. Cannabis has improved. Guitar players have in fact, improved past jimis skill level. Its not to take away from the older crowd again we stand on the shoulders of giants. But you are taking away from the current generation by not saying they are on top of the game because they are.

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That is literally an opinion lol

conor c said:

Way i see it your talking something special unicorn level those are rare but if you aint finding at least one nice plant in a pack of seeds somethings up they aint that rare ime

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Okay we'll see. I grew my entire Piff Coast Midnight Mass of 10 fem seeds this time. 4 died but I was able to get 6 plants going. Well 2 around 2 months old currently and 4 more I recently popped which are seedling stage right now and will be grown outdoors in the backyard. Even 1 Harlem Dreams as well.