How to maximize my potential in such a small space?

themanwiththeplan · Dec 21, 2011

ive made a few threads about this already and havent found enough info/input yet. im looking to get this up and running after Xmas/before new years so any all/help appreciated!

im working with a super small 38in tall x 29 1/2in wide x 19in deep space and i NEED like 2oz per month or better

its a cabinet thats going to be grown in stealth style. i will not be drilling holes for an active intake/exhaust. instead the doors will be open during lights on w/ a few fans to keep the temps down (if i go HPS over CFL) and the air circulating.

i havent decided what size pots/how many plants i should do at once. I also havent figured out what type of lights/how many i should use and whether or not i should use the cab for veg/bloom or just keep it 12/12 at all times and rotate plants in/out of there on a bi-weekly basis or what.

how can i utilize this space to its fullest potential?

please chime in.

themanwiththeplan · Dec 21, 2011

anyone?????

roidrage152 · Dec 21, 2011

I think you have at least 2 good options. Since you don't have alot of height to work with, maybe a Sea of green in cups would be the way to go. The problem is that to get an even SOG canopy you probably would need to raise a plant big enough to clone it.

I personally would do 1 big plant. Maybe final pot size about 7 gallons? If you only have 1 plant to focus on you can train the hell out of it. I would do an indica strain and just keep er low. You're gonna probably need every bit of that height. Find a way to rig a screen the entire width of the box, preferably height adjustable so you can use every available horizontal inch. When you're plant is big enough, take a couple cuttings and clone them in cups anywhere you can give them 24 hour light. The type really doesnt matter, some people put em by a window with a lamp for night time, or even on top of a dresser and leave the lights on. This is my favorite LST design:

http://www.indoormarijuanaseeds.com/advanced-indoor-cannabis-growing-techniqes/low-stress-training-lst-growing-marijuana.html

Theres too many variables for me to estimate a monthly yield for you, however it's what I would do to maximize the limited space. I would use the strongest possible strain I could get my hands on to reduce how much I would need to smoke at a time. Even though some are considered harder to grow, 1 plant in a cabinet can get alot of attention. Personally I would use low wattage HID lights because that's what I know best, but theres lots of options.

I'm not really sure what you mean by rotating out plants on a bi-weekly basis. When you go to 12/12 the plant will need to stay until maturity, avg 7-12 weeks. If you want to veg/flower at the same time you're gonna need a seperate cab.

themanwiththeplan · Dec 22, 2011

roidrage152 said:
I think you have at least 2 good options. Since you don't have alot of height to work with, maybe a Sea of green in cups would be the way to go. The problem is that to get an even SOG canopy you probably would need to raise a plant big enough to clone it.

I personally would do 1 big plant. Maybe final pot size about 7 gallons? If you only have 1 plant to focus on you can train the hell out of it. I would do an indica strain and just keep er low. You're gonna probably need every bit of that height. Find a way to rig a screen the entire width of the box, preferably height adjustable so you can use every available horizontal inch. When you're plant is big enough, take a couple cuttings and clone them in cups anywhere you can give them 24 hour light. The type really doesnt matter, some people put em by a window with a lamp for night time, or even on top of a dresser and leave the lights on. This is my favorite LST design:

http://www.indoormarijuanaseeds.com/advanced-indoor-cannabis-growing-techniqes/low-stress-training-lst-growing-marijuana.html

Theres too many variables for me to estimate a monthly yield for you, however it's what I would do to maximize the limited space. I would use the strongest possible strain I could get my hands on to reduce how much I would need to smoke at a time. Even though some are considered harder to grow, 1 plant in a cabinet can get alot of attention. Personally I would use low wattage HID lights because that's what I know best, but theres lots of options.

I'm not really sure what you mean by rotating out plants on a bi-weekly basis. When you go to 12/12 the plant will need to stay until maturity, avg 7-12 weeks. If you want to veg/flower at the same time you're gonna need a seperate cab.

SOG will be something i wanna do when i breed a batch of beans. i dont wanna waste expensive beans from attitude on SOG in water bottles (thats pretty pricey for the yield from each bean)

what i meant by rotating plants in and out is running the cab 12/12 constantly and every two wks (or every month) start a new (or two) plants so in the end i'll be cutting down 1 plant and planting another to take its place every 2 wks or month (whatever i decide works better).

im not sure yet though. im thinking a 150w HPS w/ a few 23w CFLS for additional coverage inbetween the plants. kind of like gastanker (i believe thats the username of who im thinking of. i apologize if im wrong) did in his cfl grow.

im not sure if thats enough light for 4-5 plants in 1 gal pots/bags.

ink the world · Dec 22, 2011

You might run into issues w/ your canopy height using Hid lighting like a 150 watt Hps. You're probably gonna have flowers REAL close to the bulb. Have you considered using LED?

I've have used/still own different size HPS and a 240 watt LED. A decent LED that size runs way cooler than a 150 HPS and your plants can get within a couple inches from the LED. Get your plants that close to a HID even a 150 and they won't be happy

mr. green thumb 01 · Dec 22, 2011

wow 36"? good luck.. go figure minus at least 6" MIN for pots and root growth and then minus another 6"-8"min for you light and probably a couple inches for heat clearance so the light doesn't burn the ceiling and atleast 5" for clearance of light to flowers so you dont burn them and thats only for a cfl a hid will need to be about 10-12" away. So now you have about foot and a half tall plant...Do you see how quickly your height diminishes just for equipment? Maybe auto flowering dwarf strains and LED or CFL only but I dont know man it kinda sounds like your gonna be setting yourself up for disaster and I wouldn't want you to invest all that money for nothing. Heat in small spaces is also a BIG problem. No way for any wattage HID light in there IMHO. Why is your space so small? You cant do it anywhere else?

roidrage152 · Dec 22, 2011

I do agree that is pretty low, I would try to make some sort of homemade custom pot with some extra width, that will help a little bit. In regards to swapping out 2 plants every 12 hours, If I understand you correctly you want to leave your cab on 24/7 and swap out your plant twice a day, trust me that is gonna get old quick unless you never leave the house. Another issue is that if you use a screen method, its going to be difficult to get your plant in and out. You could do a mobile type screen, I have one in the DIY thread somewhere, however that is still extreme. 2 cabs with a flip flop would be much more reasonable.

mydanksstank · Dec 22, 2011

go led. i did i have a tent 4 ft tall 1.5 foot wid by1.5 ft deep i started out useing two autoflowering plants (ak47 and gnome) which worked out pretty good then i decided to scrog a plant for the first time ( which im in the process of doing now week 5 of veg) and i plan on takeing up the entire tent with colas but as far as space. energy consumption heat and cost of running do your self a favor and spend the extra cash initially do the led complimented with a cfl or two and call it a day. im speaking from expierience not from hearsay. this works and it works danm well in a small space. and about keeping the doors wide open. that jsut invites all pest and dust and mites on in to have a healthy snak on your baby(s) not cool.

btw im useing a 100w blackstar 6 band led comped with a compact flouresent 100 watt.
the heat is running at 85*f & humidity is around 50-70 % at most. i got a fan running ofcourse

good luck and hope it helped

Gastanker · Dec 22, 2011

I was pulling an oz a week with 388w of CFL here - First CFL Grow - Help appreciated

I would recommend a 3:1 of 6500K:2700K for veg and the opposite for flower.

Keep them small! CFLs don't do nearly as well with large plants unless you keep a clean scrog or LST. I started flowering at this size -

Dropping bulb between plants maximizes plant absorption without the loss of restrike like you would have with a reflector. I tried to cover the canopy in smaller bulbs and submerge larger bulbs between plants.

I would yield ~ 1oz per plant. With 6 in full flower at a time and two others just rotating into the flower box I was able to harvest a plant per week.

This took place in a 2x3x3.5' area of a small closet.

dank smoker420 · Dec 22, 2011

yeah you gotta run 12/12 and just throw a new one or 2 each week then soon you will have a purpetual grow. i wish i could do this but i gotta move next summer...

themanwiththeplan · Dec 22, 2011

mr. green thumb 01 said:
wow 36"? good luck.. go figure minus at least 6" MIN for pots and root growth and then minus another 6"-8"min for you light and probably a couple inches for heat clearance so the light doesn't burn the ceiling and atleast 5" for clearance of light to flowers so you dont burn them and thats only for a cfl a hid will need to be about 10-12" away. So now you have about foot and a half tall plant...Do you see how quickly your height diminishes just for equipment? Maybe auto flowering dwarf strains and LED or CFL only but I dont know man it kinda sounds like your gonna be setting yourself up for disaster and I wouldn't want you to invest all that money for nothing. Heat in small spaces is also a BIG problem. No way for any wattage HID light in there IMHO. Why is your space so small? You cant do it anywhere else?

roidrage152 said:
I do agree that is pretty low, I would try to make some sort of homemade custom pot with some extra width, that will help a little bit. In regards to swapping out 2 plants every 12 hours, If I understand you correctly you want to leave your cab on 24/7 and swap out your plant twice a day, trust me that is gonna get old quick unless you never leave the house. Another issue is that if you use a screen method, its going to be difficult to get your plant in and out. You could do a mobile type screen, I have one in the DIY thread somewhere, however that is still extreme. 2 cabs with a flip flop would be much more reasonable.

my plants would get no more than 1 ft tall in 1gal pots. my pots will probably be about 8in tall...so that leaves 18inches for lights/headroom/extra plant growth etc.

Ive used 600w hps forever and i know how hot they get but i imagine a 150w will be easy to manage. i can get my 600w as close as 12 inches or so away from the canopy and imagine i can do even better w/ a 150w. im guessing maybe 8inches away.

also keep in mind i intend on LST/training them to stay low. a scrog wont be possible if i go 12/12 perpetual style. so idk if i wanna do that or not yet.

i realize i dont have a good amount of headroom but i THINK i can make it work in that size of a space.

i will have an unlimited supply of huge fans if need be (i use 4-5 already for my 8x10 room that i will be able to use once im done growing in there).

i know my space is limited but surely theres someone on the forum who has used a 150w in a 38in tall space??? maybe no?

Gastanker said:
I was pulling an oz a week with 388w of CFL here - First CFL Grow - Help appreciated

I would recommend a 3:1 of 6500K:2700K for veg and the opposite for flower.

Keep them small! CFLs don't do nearly as well with large plants unless you keep a clean scrog or LST. I started flowering at this size -

Dropping bulb between plants maximizes plant absorption without the loss of restrike like you would have with a reflector. I tried to cover the canopy in smaller bulbs and submerge larger bulbs between plants.

I would yield ~ 1oz per plant. With 6 in full flower at a time and two others just rotating into the flower box I was able to harvest a plant per week.

This took place in a 2x3x3.5' area of a small closet.

what do you use to suspend the cfls above the plants/move them up and down?

I know you used a cord socket set but how did you hang them up/adjust them?

i found a deal on amazon where you can get two socket sets for $15 so i'll probably order 2 pairs or so to use w/ the 150w (or whatever i end up using) just curious how you did it.

themanwiththeplan · Dec 22, 2011

also. folks. i'd go LED (i swear to god i would as ive always been big on them) but i honestly can't afford it at this time (unless someone can direct me to a good one thats decently priced).

if i go LED though i'd want to get the 3w versions or i'd probably not go LED in the first place.

i realize my only real serious options are t5, Cfl, HPS, and LED. i just dont know which would work best. i didnt think the 150w would get too hot in there considering the doors would be open during lights on all the time (w/ fans keeping the space between the light and plants cool) but if im wrong im wrong.

hmmm...this is gonna be tough.

i might have to order a 150w anyway...test it out...if its too hot i guess i could return it. right? i mean like test it out over the course of a day or two not like a month then try sending it back as new lol i'd probably order from amazon. think that would work? (ie. ordering to test it out and send it back if its too hot for the space)

Gastanker · Dec 22, 2011

themanwiththeplan said:
what do you use to suspend the cfls above the plants/move them up and down?

I know you used a cord socket set but how did you hang them up/adjust them?

i found a deal on amazon where you can get two socket sets for $15 so i'll probably order 2 pairs or so to use w/ the 150w (or whatever i end up using) just curious how you did it.

You can use anything - wire, nails, screws, I often run a wire horizontally and actually knot the electrical cord around it. Those were held in place/ adjusted using the clamps that came with the shop light fixtures. I had a shelf in the closet above my plants and would just clamp the cord to the shelf.

themanwiththeplan · Dec 22, 2011

Gastanker said:
You can use anything - wire, nails, screws, I often run a wire horizontally and actually knot the electrical cord around it. Those were held in place/ adjusted using the clamps that came with the shop light fixtures. I had a shelf in the closet above my plants and would just clamp the cord to the shelf.

ahh i see. thanks for the tip. i had something similar in mind but wasnt sure how you did it.

do you have any thoughts on my choice of lighting? or would you recommend going 100% cfl instead of cfls and hps together?

Gastanker · Dec 22, 2011

themanwiththeplan said:
ahh i see. thanks for the tip. i had something similar in mind but wasnt sure how you did it.

do you have any thoughts on my choice of lighting? or would you recommend going 100% cfl instead of cfls and hps together?

In a 1x1x2 I can't imagine an HID - way too much heat. I grow with HIDs and will recommend them when they should be used, but for that area go with 100% CFL/flouro (T5/T

.

themanwiththeplan · Dec 22, 2011

Gastanker said:
In a 1x1x2 I can't imagine an HID - way too much heat. I grow with HIDs and will recommend them when they should be used, but for that area go with 100% CFL/flouro (T5/T.

my space is 38in tall. 29 1/2 inches wide and 19 inches deep.

so its roughly 3ft tallx 2ft-2.5ft wide x 1.5ft deep. does that make a difference? or should i just go cfl?

overall i dont mind going CFL only. just wanna make sure i get an HPS if i can use one in that space successfully.

Gastanker · Dec 22, 2011

themanwiththeplan said:
my space is 38in tall. 29 1/2 inches wide and 19 inches deep.

so its roughly 3ft tallx 2ft-2.5ft wide x 1.5ft deep. does that make a difference? or should i just go cfl?

overall i dont mind going CFL only. just wanna make sure i get an HPS if i can use one in that space successfully.

Ah, just a tad bit smaller than that closet grow of mine. You could run a 250w or possibly a 400w as long as you have really good ventilation. IMO with lower wattages CFL grows pull better g/kWh than the HIDs - at higher wattages that changes with HID in favor. Personally if I was you I would go with CFLs - from my experience the costs would be much lower and the yields higher. Start-up costs with CFLs are near nothing but once you need legitimate air cooled hoods and inline fans costs jump dramatically (3-10x).

There is a difference between primo CFL bud and primo HID bud. IMO primo CFL bud is just as/more potent and often more flavorful than HID bud. Primo CFL bud is often just as dense as ok HID bud but Primo HID bud tends to be denser than primo CFL bud - this doesn't mean it's less potent, just less dense, and you can grow fairly dense CFL bud if you do it properly. It takes more effort IMO to grow good CFL bud than good HID bud - takes much more light adjustment. This is all my opinion from what I have experience growing with CFLs versus HID - others may have had different experience and may dispute this.

themanwiththeplan · Dec 22, 2011

Gastanker said:
Ah, just a tad bit smaller than that closet grow of mine. You could run a 250w or possibly a 400w as long as you have really good ventilation. IMO with lower wattages CFL grows pull better g/kWh than the HIDs - at higher wattages that changes with HID in favor. Personally if I was you I would go with CFLs - from my experience the costs would be much lower and the yields higher. Start-up costs with CFLs are near nothing but once you need legitimate air cooled hoods and inline fans costs jump dramatically (3-10x).

There is a difference between primo CFL bud and primo HID bud. IMO primo CFL bud is just as/more potent and often more flavorful than HID bud. Primo CFL bud is often just as dense as ok HID bud but Primo HID bud tends to be denser than primo CFL bud - this doesn't mean it's less potent, just less dense, and you can grow fairly dense CFL bud if you do it properly. It takes more effort IMO to grow good CFL bud than good HID bud - takes much more light adjustment. This is all my opinion from what I have experience growing with CFLs versus HID - others may have had different experience and may dispute this.

wow you think i could really fit a 250w hps in there? i was worried about the 150w lol. so i assume fitting a 150w hps wouldn't be an issue (height or heat?)

im just curious but how are cfls more efficent than HPS at any wattage? im just asking as i believe a 150w cfl bulb = 11,000 lumens while a 150w hps = 16000 lumens. so watt for watt the hps is 5,000 lumens more. unless im doing this wrong.

my intent was to use the 150w hps AND cfls mixed in. i wanted to do it kind of like your setup. my plan would be to put the 150w hps in the middle of the cab and place a few (2-3 cfls) on each side of the 150w hanging upside down like your setup.

thats what i pictured in my head at least.

idk im still on the fence. im just looking for whatever will give the better overall results/yield/bang for the buck, etc.

if i do go 100% cfl would i be better served to use a bunch of 23-26w cfls only (2700K and 6500K) or get some of the cfl "grow lights" that are 100w-250w (actual watts not equivalent) and generally are sold with their own reflector/hanging system?

or both? (ie. one bigger cfl grow light with reflector and various little 23-26w all at once)

Gastanker · Dec 22, 2011

themanwiththeplan said:
wow you think i could really fit a 250w hps in there? i was worried about the 150w lol. so i assume fitting a 150w hps wouldn't be an issue (height or heat?)

im just curious but how are cfls more efficent than HPS at any wattage? im just asking as i believe a 150w cfl bulb = 11,000 lumens while a 150w hps = 16000 lumens. so watt for watt the hps is 5,000 lumens more. unless im doing this wrong.

my intent was to use the 150w hps AND cfls mixed in. i wanted to do it kind of like your setup. my plan would be to put the 150w hps in the middle of the cab and place a few (2-3 cfls) on each side of the 150w hanging upside down like your setup.

thats what i pictured in my head at least.

idk im still on the fence. im just looking for whatever will give the better overall results/yield/bang for the buck, etc.

if i do go 100% cfl would i be better served to use a bunch of 23-26w cfls only (2700K and 6500K) or get some of the cfl "grow lights" that are 100w-250w (actual watts not equivalent) and generally are sold with their own reflector/hanging system?

or both? (ie. one bigger cfl grow light with reflector and various little 23-26w all at once)

You would be better off with additional lower wattage bulbs closely covering a larger area.

CFLs reach maximum lumen/w at around 45w. So 42w 2700K CFLs put off 2800 lumen at 86% CRI - 150w of 42w CFLs = 10,000lumen at 86% CRI. CRI is a rating pf spectrum compared to natural light. This is simplified but lets say an HPS puts off 16,000 lumen at 150w at a CRI of 28% - that's 16,000 * .28 = 4,480. CFLs 10,000*.86= 8,600.

CFLs have a problem with travel distance so if you are placing the bulbs extremely close to the plants you can take advantage of the higher CRI - if your bulbs are distanced from the plants it's more important to have a singular cast point (HID).

Also keep in mind how CFLs can be used compared to an HID. a 250w HID is 250w regardless of whether you need it or not. If you have multiple 23w CFLs you can run 1 at the begging, then step it up to two, then tree... One 23w CFL can cover 12 seedlings - a 250w light would be using over 10x the energy to cover the same seedlings.

themanwiththeplan · Dec 22, 2011

Gastanker said:
You would be better off with additional lower wattage bulbs closely covering a larger area.

CFLs reach maximum lumen/w at around 45w. So 42w 2700K CFLs put off 2800 lumen at 86% CRI - 150w of 42w CFLs = 10,000lumen at 86% CRI. CRI is a rating pf spectrum compared to natural light. This is simplified but lets say an HPS puts off 16,000 lumen at 150w at a CRI of 28% - that's 16,000 * .28 = 4,480. CFLs 10,000*.86= 8,600.

CFLs have a problem with travel distance so if you are placing the bulbs extremely close to the plants you can take advantage of the higher CRI - if your bulbs are distanced from the plants it's more important to have a singular cast point (HID).

Also keep in mind how CFLs can be used compared to an HID. a 250w HID is 250w regardless of whether you need it or not. If you have multiple 23w CFLs you can run 1 at the begging, then step it up to two, then tree... One 23w CFL can cover 12 seedlings - a 250w light would be using over 10x the energy to cover the same seedlings.

Ahh i see. i completely forgot about the CRI. I didnt even consider that. in that case i guess you're right. cfls are probably the way to go as much as i hate to say it. ive only used cfls for veg when i first started out. the only plant ive ever grown under cfls was an auto freebie i got from dinafem during an attitude order years back. the results were decent. i got about 29-30g in a 1 gal pot. it was indeed kind of fluffy (compared to HID).

hmmm. now im gonna have to put more thought into how im gonna set this up because i dont want a bunch of cords/fixtures/things to plug in (no offense to your set up but id like to keep mine as simple as possible)

what would you say to something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Photo-Basics-413-4-Socket-Adapter/dp/B0028K2TXQ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1324586820&sr=8-4

how safe would that be to use my our purposes (ie growing as i see its intended for photo purposes)?

id have to find a clever way to hang my cord socket as that adapter plus 4 bulbs would be pretty heavy. id like to get 1 or 2 of those (or something similar) so i'll have less things to plug in.

also how is your set up plugged in? how many power strips are you using (i assume you are using power strips)?

i can see i have a bunch of headaches to work out to set this up without it being a mess or being a fire hazard.

im hoping i can run everything in 2 plugs (one outlet)

sorry for being a pain in the ass. i just dont wanna buy things i wont end up using in the end or having to buy something else because i got the wrong stuff the first time through. for the record though...stealth cab growing = harder than whole room growing!

How to maximize my potential in such a small space?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Active Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member