Hydro (Advanced Nutrients) vs Soil (Fox Farms) ~ Fucking Incredible

Thread starter laserbrn
Start date Jan 14, 2010

T

THseaman

Guest

#21

Why are you not adding any bloom boosters or carbohydrates to the soil side? If you are going to be using big bud, overdrive and carboload on the hydro side you should add the open sesame, beastie blooms, cha ching tri pack and molasses to the soil side to make this experiment fair.

jcdws602

Well-Known Member

#22

Subscribed ........... :bigjoint:

:bigjoint:

laserbrn

Well-Known Member

#23

THseaman said:
Why are you not adding any bloom boosters or carbohydrates to the soil side? If you are going to be using big bud, overdrive and carboload on the hydro side you should add the open sesame, beastie blooms, cha ching tri pack and molasses to the soil side to make this experiment fair.

Ya know, that is a solid point. When we get to flower I'll go ahead and pick up open sesame, beastie blooms and cha ching and use them all based upon the feeding schedule OR I won't run the "Bloom Enhancers" for hydro and run with strictly the A&B. I will make it as fair as possible.

I wouldn't normally use bloom enhancers on a first run (first soil run in a long time) becaues they generally open the door to more problems and throw the N-P-K way out of whack and generally then provide too little N and I am looking at the FF line and it looks to me (not a lot of experience with soil) like it's already going to have too little N for flowering and going to suffer a bit of leaf drop. Is that a common problem with FF nutrients? Seems to me like the rating are just too low in N on BloomBig and Tiger Bloom. I see that the feeding schedule says to mix in GrowBig on weeks 3 and 4 (presumably to make up for this deficiency in N), but that seems a bit like a retarded way they forumulated this stuff. Regardless I will follow the feeding schedule stupid or not.

surphin

Well-Known Member

#24

Definitely tagging along for this ride.

I see your using Sensi 2-part, how long have you been using it? What other nute's have you used? I'm about to change up my nute's and haven't decided what to use yet.

I see you put the soil plant's in their tray inside the flood tray, did it float alot when you flooded or was it heavy enough not to?

DaveCoulier

Well-Known Member

#25

laserbrn said:
Ya know, that is a solid point. When we get to flower I'll go ahead and pick up open sesame, beastie blooms and cha ching and use them all based upon the feeding schedule OR I won't run the "Bloom Enhancers" for hydro and run with strictly the A&B. I will make it as fair as possible.

I wouldn't normally use bloom enhancers on a first run (first soil run in a long time) becaues they generally open the door to more problems and throw the N-P-K way out of whack and generally then provide too little N and I am looking at the FF line and it looks to me (not a lot of experience with soil) like it's already going to have too little N for flowering and going to suffer a bit of leaf drop. Is that a common problem with FF nutrients? Seems to me like the rating are just too low in N on BloomBig and Tiger Bloom. I see that the feeding schedule says to mix in GrowBig on weeks 3 and 4 (presumably to make up for this deficiency in N), but that seems a bit like a retarded way they forumulated this stuff. Regardless I will follow the feeding schedule stupid or not.

I use the FF liquid trio, and can tell you Tiger Bloom doesn't have enough N to support healthy foliage. I fed my Nirvana WW the first two weeks of flowering with only veg nutes, then switched over to flowering nutes. At day 35 or so, I had to do a half dose of veg nutes plus bloom nutes because I was getting too much leaf drop. I gave them another half dose of veg nutes at day 47. From here on out, no more veg nutes.

Id avoid the FF bloom boosters at all costs. I think its a rip off they try to sell you 3 bloom boosters when they're pretty much the same thing with just slightly different NPK's.

I spoke to a member here in pms the other day, and he used them at half dosage, and got severe leaf drop from them. If you used them at full strength, I think things will go badly for you.

I think the best thing you can do is stick to you your macros and micros, and avoid any other additives like bloom boosters. Were looking to see whats best hydro or soil, and keeping it simple should be the way to go, imo.

laserbrn

Well-Known Member

#26

DaveCoulier said:
I use the FF liquid trio, and can tell you Tiger Bloom doesn't have enough N to support healthy foliage. I fed my Nirvana WW the first two weeks of flowering with only veg nutes, then switched over to flowering nutes. At day 35 or so, I had to do a half dose of veg nutes plus bloom nutes because I was getting too much leaf drop. I gave them another half dose of veg nutes at day 47. From here on out, no more veg nutes.

Id avoid the FF bloom boosters at all costs. I think its a rip off they try to sell you 3 bloom boosters when their pretty much the same thing with just slightly different NPK's.

I spoke to a member here in pms the other day, and he used them at half dosage, and got severe leaf drop from them. If you used them at full strength, I think things will go badly for you.

I think the best thing you can do is stick to you your macros and micros, and avoid any other additives like bloom boosters. Were looking to see whats best hydro or soil, and keeping it simple should be the way to go, imo.

I was figuring the same thing just looking at the bottles. I'm sitting here trying to figure out how these plants are going to get nearly enough N with these nutes and then throw in a bunch of high P "Bloom Enhancers" and I feel like I'm going to have some dead, yellow, leafless plants by the end.

I'll stay away from all bloom enhancers for this run and stick strictly to the base nutes for both. I will just have to watch the N deficiencies in the soil plants and try to feed accordingly to keep them under control.

I was actually hoping that somehow someone was going to say somehow this stuff worked perfect and it wasn't a problem, but based on the numbers I know it's not true. I'm sure it's why my first round of soil plants using FF went so far south so fast and I had no idea then what I was looking at. Now after years of growing I understand what's going on and I can see clearly that's the case with this stuff. Why hasn't FF figured out that you need N during flowering....AN figured it out just like every other good nutrient MFG....a little confusing.

T

THseaman

Guest

#27

Just to clarify, are you trying to grow leaves or buds? Throw some N at them the first few weeks of flower and then blast them w/PK. Leaves drop, it's okay.

Dilluting w/happy frog was a minor mistake. Should run 85% FFOF w/15% chunky perlite. That would help w/N levels.

At any rate, good luck with this. Hope we learn a lot. Cheers.

sagensour

Active Member

#28

ur on th right track. next time try bloom boosters from AN anf FF.

laserbrn

Well-Known Member

#29

THseaman said:
Just to clarify, are you trying to grow leaves or buds? Throw some N at them the first few weeks of flower and then blast them w/PK. Leaves drop, it's okay.

Dilluting w/happy frog was a minor mistake. Should run 85% FFOF w/15% chunky perlite. That would help w/N levels.

At any rate, good luck with this. Hope we learn a lot. Cheers.

Uhmmm....thanks for trying to help. Guessing you don't have too many grows under your belt, but leaf drop is not okay. "Blasting with P&K"? What does that even mean? If you've had excessive leaf drop in all of your grows you don't yet know what it means to do it correctly. I challenge you to grow your plants next time and make your only goal to have as many leaves as possible at the end and work on keeping it green as long as possible...you'll see. When things are in balance the leaves will change colors and not drop until long after the buds mature and ready for harvest.

I used to grow that way, then I stopped and started growing much larger healthier buds and I've been fighting that misinformation ever since. '

I don't think throwing clones directly in FFOF is good advice, that soil is pretty hot and I'm about 99% sure they would burn up and die in it if I put them in there straight away.

sagensour

Active Member

#30

laserbrn said:
Uhmmm....thanks for trying to help. Guessing you don't have too many grows under your belt, but leaf drop is not okay. "Blasting with P&K"? What does that even mean? If you've had excessive leaf drop in all of your grows you don't yet know what it means to do it correctly. I challenge you to grow your plants next time and make your only goal to have as many leaves as possible at the end and work on keeping it green as long as possible...you'll see. When things are in balance the leaves will change colors and not drop until long after the buds mature and ready for harvest.

I used to grow that way, then I stopped and started growing much larger healthier buds and I've been fighting that misinformation ever since. '

I don't think throwing clones directly in FFOF is good advice, that soil is pretty hot and I'm about 99% sure they would burn up and die in it if I put them in there straight away.

I do disagree. I have friends that drop babies rite into theFFOF with no ill side effects. They swear by it. They dont use websites though, the grow from experience. I know it works, You gotta know ur strain though. I wouldnt reccomend puting in sick clones ofr The Cheese for example. Then it might be to much.

laserbrn

Well-Known Member

#31

sagensour said:
I do disagree. I have friends that drop babies rite into theFFOF with no ill side effects. They swear by it. They dont use websites though, the grow from experience. I know it works, You gotta know ur strain though. I wouldnt reccomend puting in sick clones ofr The Cheese for example. Then it might be to much.

Yeah, I would imagine that the DP White Widow I grew previously would be okay to tell you the truth. Those things just loved food, but the Blue Cheese I've grown from them would definitely choke and die.

I think these will be just fine started in Happy Frog and transplanted into FFOF when they transplant out of the cups.

sagensour

Active Member

#32

laserbrn said:
Yeah, I would imagine that the DP White Widow I grew previously would be okay to tell you the truth. Those things just loved food, but the Blue Cheese I've grown from them would definitely choke and die.

I think these will be just fine started in Happy Frog and transplanted into FFOF when they transplant out of the cups.

Forsure. I would blend the ffof and happy frog in the middle and ffof arond the sides. So it might blend for a week or so with the roots.

laserbrn

Well-Known Member

#33

sagensour said:
Forsure. I would blend the ffof and happy frog in the middle and ffof arond the sides. So it might blend for a week or so with the roots.

That was exactly the plan. I figure bottom third of the pot will be just FFOF, the middle third would be a fairly strong blend and the top third would be mostly happy frog. Somethign like that, you get the idea.

T

THseaman

Guest

#34

ummmmmmm, screw you, you patronizing jerkoff. you are a know nothing wimp who thinks he knows something, and you are doing an injustice to fox farm nutrients and additives. are you advanced nutrients staff? this is the idiocy i have to put up with when I come back to RIU. lol ridiculous...

DaveCoulier

Well-Known Member

#35

THseaman said:
ummmmmmm, screw you, you patronizing jerkoff. you are a know nothing wimp who thinks he knows something, and you are doing an injustice to fox farm nutrients and additives. are you advanced nutrients staff? this is the idiocy i have to put up with when I come back to RIU. lol ridiculous...

You can always leave again if you dont like the truth.

Oh and for good measure:

laserbrn

Well-Known Member

#36

THseaman said:
ummmmmmm, screw you, you patronizing jerkoff. you are a know nothing wimp who thinks he knows something, and you are doing an injustice to fox farm nutrients and additives. are you advanced nutrients staff? this is the idiocy i have to put up with when I come back to RIU. lol ridiculous...

You don't have to put up with anything, you could always just piss off. Wouldn't it be nice if you could "kick" from a thread?

I don't know why people have to be such boneheads. I've stated already that this grow isn't AN vs. FF so I don't know what point you are trying to make accusing me of working for Advanced Nutrients. This grow is about the overall taste and growth difference between soil and hydroponics. It's for my own information and to feed my own curiousity's. I've simply chosen to share it with the community and I don't care about your opinion of the "validity" of the comparison. If you would like to grow side by side and do a comparison you can use whatever controls satisfy you. Hell if you even shared a grow journal at all it would sure lend a lot to your credibility.

madcatter

Active Member

#37

What a wanker.... like who invited him? Obviously a FF staff or butt buddy... He goes off on AN in a 2 company comparison... and the grow aint even over.... it takes all kinds those we could use less off his...

chiefbootknocker

Well-Known Member

#38

madcatter said:
What a wanker.... like who invited him? Obviously a FF staff or butt buddy... He goes off on AN in a 2 company comparison... and the grow aint even over.... it takes all kinds those we could use less off his...

Now hold on there little buck-a-roo. That dude was a little rude, but this is a bit on the bogus side.

First the guy admits to being a seasoned hydro grower, and has limited experience with dirt.

Second, his Fox Farm lineup is incomplete. There is NO product in there that will turbo kick the buds when flowering starts. If you read the NPK on those products they are fairly tame when it comes to P-K. This is opposed to the AN lineup he is using which is totally geared toward budding......geee I wonder who will win.

In oder for this to be fair I think you need the solubles from Fox Farm in addition to what this person already has, and someone who can grow in soil.

Also leave the "fucking incredible" out of the post title too. It leads someone to believe something happened on this thread.

madcatter

Active Member

#39

Well big buck a roo... it isn;t fucking amazing.... it is Fucking incredible and it is the strain from Vancouver Island seedbank... the grow he grew in the journal before this ... and as for thsteamer, he has postedsomereally stupid ass remarks on alot of people pages....

chiefbootknocker

Well-Known Member

#40

madcatter said:
Well big buck a roo... it isn;t fucking amazing.... it is Fucking incredible and it is the strain from Vancouver Island seedbank... the grow he grew in the journal before this ... and as for thsteamer, he has postedsomereally stupid ass remarks on alot of people pages....

Yeah I edited that before your comment little buck-a-roo. My point was not to credit thsteamer, but dis-credit this "experiement".

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