Hydrogen Pro Co2 Burner VS. Marey Tankless Hot Water Heater

legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Thanks man. I didn't buy the marley but something very similar.... It was the aquah NG unit. 1.6 gallon a minute. That's pretty small, should work pretty well. I guess we will see. What size pump did you have? I figure I'm going to need to run about 7' of head on the pump. I'm going to bury a 50g metal drum in the ground outside to keep things cool
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
I use a big submersible utility pump from lowes. about 60 bucks. They are not made for continuous use like a fountain pump, but they work great. Just be carefull what you plug any pump into. Many co2 controllers are not made to handle this type of inductive load. Mine has an external relay now, I popped the first one plugging a pump into it.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Excellent tip. I was looking at getting a harbor freight sump pump. 26' head rating and i think flows were like 1400 or so. For $40 can't beat it. It does suck down 2 amps so I'll check the amp rating on my CAP. +rep for the heads up!
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
CAP PPM3 will pop! PPM4 will not. An external relay is easy to do. The guys that sold me my unit made it work. Once I got it and looked inside, fairly simple.

That pump is just like the lowes unit. Thing rocks.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
oh course being a fucking rock star like I am, I have the XGC 1. The whole thing is rated at 15 amps. I'll see if there is a limit on the CO2 outlet. Would be weird if there was. Stoked to get this thing and finally stop running to the store to get new co2 bottles.

I ran most of the gas line last night. Now I have to dig a 5 deep hole for that 55 gallon drum :(

My unit is tiny! Its like 17 x 12. Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200479234853&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Thought about putting some ducting in to be able to blow CO2 in my veg tent outside the flower room in the last two weeks of flower (when I'm not using co2) but the double wall class B ducting is EXPENSIVE shit!!
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
XGC should be good. Turn off fuzzy logic as it will turn the unit on and off to rapidly. I went to a propane supply place and had them build me a 20ft hose/regulator combo that is much more robust than the chinese piece that comes with them. that unit looks exactly like my marey 5l. I used the batteries to fire the unit and the pump to activate it. So the pump goes into the controller. As far as ducting is concerned. Why not just duct from the room to the tent.

I run my bottled gas from rooted clone to harvest at 1500. They use 2x the amount of co2 during weeks 5-8, than 1-4. Of course the size of the plants is the cause of this, my point is, they are sucking it down at the same rate right to the end. I don't understand why you would shut it off the last 2 weeks. there's alot of bulk added during that time.
 
flamdrags420

flamdrags420

Well-Known Member
I've been wondering a lot about this topic as well. I have sent emails to co2 gen companies and haven't heard back yet. But from what I have learned the co2 generator specific units use a better quality burner that is designed to generate more co2 than these burners on water heaters and ranges etc. Have not found any scientific data to back these claims yet. Seeing these pics make me wonder more about tapping into my water heater. I think doing this a CO alarm is def. a safe play before delving into this.
thanks for the info.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I have red in numerous places that high levels of co2 in the last two weeks can inhibit maturation of the bus (by inhibiting the production of ethylene) and can result in lower amounts of THC production. There was a really good article, I think it was in the urban grower? that talked about ideal CO2 ranges. In the past I conserved co2 because I was bottle based but I plan on implementing roughly the same schedule. 700 for clone to week 2. 1000 until 12/12. 1200 the first two weeks of flower, 1500 from 3 till 6 and then 600 or ambient until harvest. My enviro controls for the last two to three weeks are:
Shooting powder to nutrient mix
Lower humidity to <40% RH
Co2 down to 600 or less
day/night differential of at least 15 degrees F (typically 85 daytime to 70 night time).
Last two weeks I go to 10/14 typically I reduce light one hour a week.
Watering interval decreased to one 15 minute watering every 6 hours
Switch to MH for the last week.
Clearex flush then straight tap (fresh tap each day or until PPM is below 100) for the last 4 days
Full 48 hour darkness, chop under green lights
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I can tell you this, the hydroponic companies that claim that they are more "precise" or specific to producing co2 are COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT. "new water cooled technology" to reduce heat in the grow room.... wait a minute..that looks like a water heater coil.. Oh yeah, it is. "water actuated design ensures unit won't fire if water isn't flowing"...umm, isn't that how on demand water heaters work? When the water starts flowing it kicks on?
Look at a CAP co2 burner...they want 400 for that thing and at it is a set of three or four bunson burners in a metal cabinet.

Bottom line, you reduce the amount of o2 you are burning and you'll get a blue flame that produces co2 and water vapor. You start to get an orange flame and your producing co aka deadly carbon monoxide.

If you were a complete genius you would schedule your evening shower to coincide with your lights on event in your grow room and then use the warm water from your co2 generator. Problem is the water is only going to flow for about 3-4 minutes :)

Not to get all gripey or anything, but the hydro industry is full of complete bullshit like this. You want an electric solenoid to run a drain to waste cooling system? Well here you go, hydro innovations sells one:

"This WaterGater electronic valves accessory is for the HydroGEN and HydroGEN PRO. It effortlessly automate and regulate your water flow with the WaterGATE Electronic Valve. With its heavy duty brass construction, this quality unit is built to last."
hydro inovations.jpgSuggested Retail ...$79.99 Wow kind of pricey but I guess I'm going to need it.....

Hmmm, that seems like allot for a solenoid water valve, let me google it....

http://www.virtualvillage.com/1-2-24v-dc-electric-solenoid-valve-for-water-gas-diesel-air-001540-029.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shcomp

Wait, that thing is $12 !! I'm not a product designer or anything but lets play the whole "find 5 differences between these two pictures game". #1. different sticker.

hydro inovations.jpg001.jpg


Nah, I'm sure they are different. There is no way that companies could pull one over on the super savy, sophisticated and motivated marijuana grower target market.
 
flamdrags420

flamdrags420

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
I can tell you this, the hydroponic companies that claim that they are more "precise" or specific to producing co2 are COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT. "new water cooled technology" to reduce heat in the grow room.... wait a minute..that looks like a water heater coil.. Oh yeah, it is. "water actuated design ensures unit won't fire if water isn't flowing"...umm, isn't that how on demand water heaters work? When the water starts flowing it kicks on?
Look at a CAP co2 burner...they want 400 for that thing and at it is a set of three or four bunson burners in a metal cabinet.

Bottom line, you reduce the amount of o2 you are burning and you'll get a blue flame that produces co2 and water vapor. You start to get an orange flame and your producing co aka deadly carbon monoxide.

If you were a complete genius you would schedule your evening shower to coincide with your lights on event in your grow room and then use the warm water from your co2 generator. Problem is the water is only going to flow for about 3-4 minutes :)

Not to get all gripey or anything, but the hydro industry is full of complete bullshit like this. You want an electric solenoid to run a drain to waste cooling system? Well here you go, hydro innovations sells one:

"This WaterGater electronic valves accessory is for the HydroGEN and HydroGEN PRO. It effortlessly automate and regulate your water flow with the WaterGATE Electronic Valve. With its heavy duty brass construction, this quality unit is built to last."
View attachment 1447283Suggested Retail ...$79.99 Wow kind of pricey but I guess I'm going to need it.....

Hmmm, that seems like allot for a solenoid water valve, let me google it....

http://www.virtualvillage.com/1-2-24v-dc-electric-solenoid-valve-for-water-gas-diesel-air-001540-029.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shcomp

Wait, that thing is $12 !! I'm not a product designer or anything but lets play the whole "find 5 differences between these two pictures game". #1. different sticker.

View attachment 1447283View attachment 1447295


Nah, I'm sure they are different. There is no way that companies could pull one over on the super savy, sophisticated and motivated marijuana grower target market.
Click to expand...
great post man
maybe this is why I haven't heard back from these companies.
I figured they are the same but can find no info really either way.

My dream idea is also to use a gas fireplace. And just adjust the knob so the flame is burning blue and just vent the sucker into the grow room.
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
flamdrags420 said:
I've been wondering a lot about this topic as well. I have sent emails to co2 gen companies and haven't heard back yet. But from what I have learned the co2 generator specific units use a better quality burner that is designed to generate more co2 than these burners on water heaters and ranges etc. Have not found any scientific data to back these claims yet. Seeing these pics make me wonder more about tapping into my water heater. I think doing this a CO alarm is def. a safe play before delving into this.
thanks for the info.
Click to expand...

If we look at the simple facts. ALL modern lpg and ng burners are made to burn as cleanly as possible. The people that design these devices (the engineers) probably didn't get any lessons on combustion effeciency from a couple of "doods" at hydrogen. These devices are all made in china, I can't imagine hydrogen being able to order the quantity that would be needed to influence the design.

That said, I think the guys at hydrogen have done us all a service bringing this to our attention, as well as marketing a fairly turnkey system for those that don't care to DIY.

So I can assure you that any claims of changes to the burner are pure marketing.
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
I have red in numerous places that high levels of co2 in the last two weeks can inhibit maturation of the bus (by inhibiting the production of ethylene) and can result in lower amounts of THC production. There was a really good article, I think it was in the urban grower? that talked about ideal CO2 ranges...
Click to expand...

I haven't read anything like this. I haven't done tons of research, but all of the research i have done supports a consistent environment all the way through. I limit the research I do on issues like this to published studies done by universities so it usually geard towards food production. I find most of the magazine articles to only draw on personal experience or opinion. Or in the case of Rosebud magazine, marketing.

Now wouldn't logic dictate that if your plants are bulking in the last 2 weeks, that they would still benefit from all of the building blocks, in the same proportions. I feed right up until the end as well for the same reason. My yeild and quality suffered when I did a 2 week flush.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
That's a valid point. I mean everyone has a right to make money. It just seems the growing business, well most of the growing industry centers around huge mark ups and selling you everything you don't really need. If I bought that unit for $169. Then the seller bought it for around $120. The distributed for sure bought it for less than $100. So why is a new "co2 burner" $400?

I guess "because they can" is fair enough. Doesn't mean I have to like it, I'm just pleased to find a cheap alternative
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
Cap's ebb & gro monster is just home depot $2.58 buckets and an aqualab kit. :) Everything is bullshit, the DIY crowd always cries foul, but they are the ones who do it themselves, so what do the companies care if the people who wont buy their ready-to-go kits wont buy it anyway. ? :)
 
NewGrowth

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
The hydrogen pro is junk, they work for about three months. After a little research I found out that it's just a cheap Chinese water heater. All the parts are cheap low quality crap, I will never buy any of these again and recommend against them. Just get a good A/C and a CAP burner less hastle. I've ripped two of these units apart to replace components and remove their crappy sensors. Don't buy these! Rip off!!
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
NewGrowth said:
The hydrogen pro is junk, they work for about three months. After a little research I found out that it's just a cheap Chinese water heater. All the parts are cheap low quality crap, I will never buy any of these again and recommend against them. Just get a good A/C and a CAP burner less hastle. I've ripped two of these units apart to replace components and remove their crappy sensors. Don't buy these! Rip off!!
Click to expand...
If they fail, dont they have a warranty? ;)
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
Without getting into all of that, I have no problem with a group of innovative people putting out a repurposed product and making some money in the process. Packaging, Advertising, is expensive. This is a cottage industry, cling to these times. They are sure to suck when the corporations move in.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Umm I got news for you buddy, the "corporations" are already here. Ooh let me guess, sunlight supply, CAP, hgs, advanced nutrients... They are not corporations, they are just a bunch of good natured bros hanging around and getting high. Nigha pah-lease.

Who says all corporations are a bad thing anyways ? Getting off track. Buy a water heater to cheaply produce CO2. Nuff said
 
NewGrowth

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
researchkitty said:
If they fail, dont they have a warranty? ;)
Click to expand...
Why would I want to replace something I known is going to break again? I literally know every single component of these things because I've had to troubleshoot them so much. They are leaky the temperature probe is in the direct path of the flame, the igniter switch shorts with condensation, the 'oxygen deprevation sensor' is non-existent, the water diaphragm sticks so gas does not flow, do you want me to keep listing the problems I've encountered? If you want to defend a POS product more power to you, I've got to much garden work to be constantly fixing a burner.
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
Umm I got news for you buddy, the "corporations" are already here. Ooh let me guess, sunlight supply, CAP, hgs, advanced nutrients... They are not corporations, they are just a bunch of good natured bros hanging around and getting high. Nigha pah-lease.

Who says all corporations are a bad thing anyways ? Getting off track. Buy a water heater to cheaply produce CO2. Nuff said
Click to expand...
I mean the big publicly traded companies. CAP SS etc are actually small companies. The retail side is still real mom and pop. This is how almost all businesses were at one time. The race to the bottom is on, my brotha!
 
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