IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

REALSTYLES · Nov 26, 2015

mauricem00 said:
the 3k may be a better option for flowering but if you want a single light from seed to harvest the 4k looks like a better option. just my 2 cents worth.you could also add a few deep red or full spectrum led for flowering to get more red http://www.ebay.com/itm/321828851721?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT these give broad spectrum red peaking around 650nm

I've used 3000k and 5000k but have put together my 4000k light yet. I have the highest bin CXB3590 6500k DD running it super soft and 70% efficient. Those diodes are bad news they are Epistars that will burn out when driven hard. This is what I think of Epistar and Happy Thanksgiving to all

That panel use the same chips

Xrazor77 · Nov 26, 2015

REALSTYLES said:
I use CXB3590 3500k CD bin for both veg and flower driven @50 watts per COB right now but get dimmed down to 23 watts during the summer

View attachment 3551547

thanks guys! I'm pretty new to led but definitely in love with the COBs. Probably buy first one and build second one.

Xrazor77 · Nov 26, 2015

REALSTYLES said:
I use CXB3590 3500k CD bin for both veg and flower driven @50 watts per COB right now but get dimmed down to 23 watts during the summer

View attachment 3551547

Optics are selling a panel with 4 cxb3590s at 500 watts. That's 125 watts per cob. What do you think about that? Not very efficient but pretty high output right?

TommyDuhCat · Nov 26, 2015

So I'm wanting tip build a small strip of cobs for fun, and eventually for supplemental lighting in my cabinets.

I'm having a bit of confusion. How do i determine what i need? If im looking at 3 3w cob lights, each has vf of 9-12, do i need to multiply the vf and number of total lights? Or do i keep the voltage at 12 and figure out what current i need?

I imagine this would depend on if i want to go series or parallel.

Could someone help me out with a bit of info or a resource for this info? I've been looking around online but just don't seem to be finding what I'm looking for.

mauricem00 · Nov 26, 2015

REALSTYLES said:
I've used 3000k and 5000k but have put together my 4000k light yet. I have the highest bin CXB3590 6500k DD running it super soft and 70% efficient. Those diodes are bad news they are Epistars that will burn out when driven hard. This is what I think of Epistar and Happy Thanksgiving to all

That panel use the same chips

kind of a waste.the diodes and drivers may be junk but the heat sinks and case are still usable

Zulu Smoker · Nov 27, 2015

Xrazor77 said:
Optics are selling a panel with 4 cxb3590s at 500 watts. That's 125 watts per cob. What do you think about that? Not very efficient but pretty high output right?

Very high output yes but the coverage is less than desired. That's why I went with the 2-cob Vero 29s so I'll be able to adjust the coverage to suit my needs. How big is your space? The 500W model is only good for a 3x2.5' space in flower - that's what others have already mentioned before.

mauricem00 · Nov 27, 2015

one thing I do not see discussed here is lumen depreciation. I have learned that the L70 life expectancy of vero series leds is 50,000 hours and the L90 life expectancy is only 20,000 hours. so they lose 10% of their output in 20,000 hours and 30% of their output in 50,000 hours.about twice the life expectancy of a good quality commercial grade T5HO bulb.seems like something to be considered when determining if LEDs are a cost effiecient alternative. running 3790s very soft seems an expensive way to match the efficiency of HPS lighting.and florescent can achieve 100lm/watt in environments where heat may be an issue. I play with leds when I have a little extra cash.but believe it may be a few years before they are a cost effective alternative to other forms of lighting.LEDs may be a good choice for supplemental lighting with HID or fluorescent bulbs. but i'm not sure that they a ready to replace other forms of grow lights yet.

Greengenes707 · Nov 27, 2015

Zulu Smoker said:
I guess so, I don't want to rip the adhesives off but I think the specs are still the same. I'm guessing it's an LPF-90-42 instead of the NPF-90-42. Where are the NPFs made?

JimmyIndica said:
China. I am sure Meanwell Has very good quality control no matter where they are built. Sucks, but still a Meanwell

The class 1 is most likely their reason for switching. Class 1 is commercial applications and what's needed for mass use in regulated operations. Good move by optics.

As for meanwell in general... HLG's and many other drivers of theirs are made in both taiwan and china. And there is not picking of from where, you get what you get, usually mixed...because they are all the same...they are meanwells. They will perform to or above spec every time.
That taiwan marking on the product page is an award. They can move production elsewhere.

It's like cree...they have factories in china...but they are cree and nothing is going out not to specs and standards.

REALSTYLES · Nov 27, 2015

mauricem00 said:
kind of a waste.the diodes and drivers may be junk but the heat sinks and case are still usable

No they're not a waste of metal. The heat sinks can't handle the heat

mauricem00 said:
one thing I do not see discussed here is lumen depreciation. I have learned that the L70 life expectancy of vero series leds is 50,000 hours and the L90 life expectancy is only 20,000 hours. so they lose 10% of their output in 20,000 hours and 30% of their output in 50,000 hours.about twice the life expectancy of a good quality commercial grade T5HO bulb.seems like something to be considered when determining if LEDs are a cost effiecient alternative. running 3790s very soft seems an expensive way to match the efficiency of HPS lighting.and florescent can achieve 100lm/watt in environments where heat may be an issue. I play with leds when I have a little extra cash.but believe it may be a few years before they are a cost effective alternative to other forms of lighting.LEDs may be a good choice for supplemental lighting with HID or fluorescent bulbs. but i'm not sure that they a ready to replace other forms of grow lights yet.

You are in correct It's cost $700 to make a CXa3590 400 watt light that will perform a 600w HPS and HPS 1000w are 30-39% efficient depending on the mfg. and here's some pics of my 756 watt 4x4 tent from yesterday

And that's day 3 of week 5 in flower so you can't say LEDs can,t beat HPS because my lights do and many others on here have lights light mine, but not exactly the same but will outperform HPS as well.

mauricem00 · Nov 27, 2015

REALSTYLES said:
No they're not a waste of metal. The heat sinks can't handle the heat

You are in correct It's cost $700 to make a CXa3590 400 watt light that will perform a 600w HPS and HPS 1000w are 30-39% efficient depending on the mfg. and here's some pics of my 756 watt 4x4 tent from yesterday

View attachment 3552000
View attachment 3552001
View attachment 3552002
And that's day 3 of week 5 in flower so you can't say LEDs can,t beat HPS because my lights do and many others on here have lights light mine, but not exactly the same but will outperform HPS as well.

I will see for myself. I have 3 vero 18 4000k Cobs and a meanwell driver coming in and 2 clones in my vegging room to test them on and a massive (8lb) heat sink and fans from an electronics surplus store .been playing with cheap chinese grow lights for a year now and am not impressed but there is a lot of chatter about vero and cree leds here so i'm going to give them a try

Xrazor77 · Nov 27, 2015

Zulu Smoker said:
Very high output yes but the coverage is less than desired. That's why I went with the 2-cob Vero 29s so I'll be able to adjust the coverage to suit my needs. How big is your space? The 500W model is only good for a 3x2.5' space in flower - that's what others have already mentioned before.

My space is 4x4. I ended up going with 2- 6 cob panels 4K both running at 300watts so the coverage should be plenty. I just hope the heat won't be a problem. They are running at 50w per cob from gogreen.

REALSTYLES · Nov 27, 2015

mauricem00 said:
I will see for myself. I have 3 vero 18 4000k Cobs and a meanwell driver coming in and 2 clones in my vegging room to test them on and a massive (8lb) heat sink and fans from an electronics surplus store .been playing with cheap chinese grow lights for a year now and am not impressed but there is a lot of chatter about vero and cree leds here so i'm going to give them a try

That why I smash that light lol Chinese junk was under warranty and they didn't want too fix it so I smashed it and I had another which I let my friend use and it went out so I took it apart and found out the heat sinks suck they weighed 643 grams each and they used 3 on the Mars II 1200

mauricem00 · Nov 27, 2015

REALSTYLES said:
That why I smash that light lol Chinese junk was under warranty and they didn't want too fix it so I smashed it and I had another which I let my friend use and it went out so I took it apart and found out the heat sinks suck they weighed 643 grams each and they used 3 on the Mars II 1200

4 1/2 pounds of aluminum ain't much for a 1200 watt light. i'm using 8 pounds with cooling fans and that meanwell driver will only give me a maximum of 130 watts with those 3 cobs. it is adjustable so I can run lower power but 15000lumens for 4 sq foot should work pretty good.my 2G11cfls only give me 14400lumens and i'm getting .75g/watt with a basic soil grow. I grow MMJ for a cancer patient that can't afford "meds" so all growing cost come out of my pocket and I like to keep things simple. less to go wrong that way

robincnn · Nov 27, 2015

mauricem00 said:
one thing I do not see discussed here is lumen depreciation. I have learned that the L70 life expectancy of vero series leds is 50,000 hours and the L90 life expectancy is only 20,000 hours. so they lose 10% of their output in 20,000 hours and 30% of their output in 50,000 hours.

L90 20,000 might be possible with Tc 105C or even higher. Which is crazy high. At 105C vero 29 loses 3.4% average in 10,000hrs
Even at 85C case temp, which is also very high you lose little less than 2% on average in 10,000hrs.
With a simple artic cooler Tc should be around 65C at most. The L90 should be 30,000-50,000

sunny747 · Nov 28, 2015

xkaijinx said:
I can respect that. But what would you suggest otherwise? lol I'm not trying to drop over $800 in total grow equipment either..

I don't think there is a good alternative. Right now it's either quality COB lights or LEC or HPS. You could build a COB, but it takes some education and expertise. Still costs a lot.

Beezcheeze · Nov 28, 2015

I have a small area set up for a secondary flowering spot. Plan to do as many clones as I can fit in a 3x3 tray and do a SOG. I have these two Area 51 w100s but they're not enough light for the area, and to add two more to match it would make them need to be mounted lower down on the angled ceiling losing height room if I ever need it.
So was thinking of getting one big nice panel to hang high and cover the full 4x4 grow area. Looking at Apache tech red and blue light right now. Anyone have any other comparable panels they would reccomend? Picture of grow area attached.

robincnn · Nov 28, 2015

Greengenes707 said:
The class 1 is most likely their reason for switching. Class 1 is commercial applications and what's needed for mass use in regulated operations. Good move by optics.

Both NPF and LPC are Class 2. Not sure what you were suggesting with class 1.

Meanwell has been moving some of their models production from Taiwan to China. And the prices stay the same even after the production moves from Taiwan to China. :-x

TommyDuhCat said:
So I'm wanting tip build a small strip of cobs for fun, and eventually for supplemental lighting in my cabinets.
I'm having a bit of confusion. How do i determine what i need? If im looking at 3 3w cob lights, each has vf of 9-12, do i need to multiply the vf and number of total lights? Or do i keep the voltage at 12 and figure out what current i need?
I imagine this would depend on if i want to go series or parallel.
Could someone help me out with a bit of info or a resource for this info? I've been looking around online but just don't seem to be finding what I'm looking for.

For those 3, if you put them in series(recommended) (+ to -, + to -, + to -) then yes vF will be 3 times the Vf of single cob. Current requirement same as single single.
For those 3, if you put them in parallel then yes vF will be same as the Vf of single cob. Current requirement 3 times as single single.
What is this 3W cob. I am not sure if 3W would qualify for a cob. :mrgreen:

The smallest cob i have seen is vero 10 and even that has 9.3 watts.

The Dawg · Nov 28, 2015

Robin He Could Be Talking About The 3x1 Watt Chip Sets? Just A Thought

mauricem00 · Nov 28, 2015

robincnn said:
L90 20,000 might be possible with Tc 105C or even higher. Which is crazy high. At 105C vero 29 loses 3.4% average in 10,000hrs
Even at 85C case temp, which is also very high you lose little less than 2% on average in 10,000hrs.
With a simple artic cooler Tc should be around 65C at most. The L90 should be 30,000-50,000

I would love a link to your data source. the numbers I sited were found online and I am currently building a light using vero 18s. would be very happy with the kind of life expectancy you claim but manufacturer data is at 25 or 50C normally and 60000 hours is the claimed L70 life for this product I will be operating at about 45C with the cooling system I'm using.

robincnn · Nov 28, 2015

mauricem00 said:
I would love a link to your data source. the numbers I sited were found online and I am currently building a light using vero 18s. would be very happy with the kind of life expectancy you claim but manufacturer data is at 25 or 50C normally and 60000 hours is the claimed L70 life for this product I will be operating at about 45C with the cooling system I'm using.

The data i gave was form LM 80 report for BXRC-30e10k0- vero 29
It is only up to 10,000hrs. contact bridgelux to get a copy. They watermarked my name all over so i cannot share my copy. Hope this data for 85C and 55C case temperature helps.

If you see last column the Min value. looks like they tested 10 samples and 1 sample had more significant lumen depreciation as shown in Min value

also see Lm70 and lm90 for cree by GG below my post
https://www.rollitup.org/t/what-light-should-i-buy.883727/page-10#post-11917374

What was your source?
The lumen depreciation seems non linear. But L90 20,000 does not sound right unless case temp very high.

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