Impossible! The deficit is falling as well as unemployment Obama wrecking economy

Antidisestablishmentarian said:

Lmao. You ACTUALLY aren't a nice guy.

So go fuck yourself.

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youre the one screaming..........

idk what nxslk is.

They were valued at one dollar then, equal to a Federal Reserve note then. You have that much correct. It takes 23 Federal Reserve notes to purchase one now, that is, ounce of silver now; really 90% of the price of silver now, because the coins were 90% silver which means the paper note is 22 times weaker now than it was then....for a silver dollar that was 100% silver. This math is based on spot price of silver right now. Yes it was illegal to melt them but ppl scraped the sides which is why most are rounded on the sides today. You could get $1 worth or whatever then with paper or 4 quarters....those 4 quarters are worth $16.80 measured by the same exact paper note. You can try and calculate what silver is worth according to your own rules based on whatever you invent on the fly to suit your argument with me, or just check the spot price right now to see current 2013 value.

As for the averages you said averages in response to my full time parents post and used them to justify, exactly what, idk.....that it took 2 full time parents back then just like it does now I suppose....ask your elders how many ppl worked 2 full time jobs back then.

The minimum wage was a dollar in 1956, ya got me there slick but it doesn't prove your point. The law that changed it to that was passed in 1955. So the math is easier in 1956 to suit my argument cause its 1 but here's 0.75............$12.60 in 90% form and $17.48 in pure troy ounce bullion. Highest current min wage is Nevada $8.25....that is almost exactly half. What part of this will I eventually unlearn on this forum or any other?

twostrokenut said:

idk what nxslk is.

They were valued at one dollar then, equal to a Federal Reserve note then. You have that much correct. It takes 23 Federal Reserve notes to purchase one now, that is, ounce of silver now; really 90% of the price of silver now, because the coins were 90% silver which means the paper note is 22 times weaker now than it was then....for a silver dollar that was 100% silver. This math is based on spot price of silver right now. Yes it was illegal to melt them but ppl scraped the sides which is why most are rounded on the sides today. You could get $1 worth or whatever then with paper or 4 quarters....those 4 quarters are worth $16.80 measured by the same exact paper note. You can try and calculate what silver is worth according to your own rules based on whatever you invent on the fly to suit your argument with me, or just check the spot price right now to see current 2013 value.

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A $1 silver coin in 1955 had the same purchasing power as a $1 Federal Reserve Note. The price of silver is irrelevant because it had no bearing on the value of the coin--it was only worth $1, whatever the silver content--because it was fixed by law. The only reason gold and silver prices were allowed to float was because we stopped using them as currency; otherwise the prices have been fixed by law for centuries. What would silver be worth today if world governments imposed price controls?

A 1956 worker earned a minimum wage with a buying power of $1 an hour. The value of silver is irrelevant because it's fixed and there's no way to obtain it, which leaves you with the face value of the coin--$1. Adjusting for inflation, that $1 in 1956 would be equivalent to $8.56 today (but the minimum wage was $1 an hour for the next 5 years, so that was the peak of buying power; if you compare it against 2009, when the minimum wage was last raised, the 1956 dollar is equivalent to $7.89, which was the peak of the minimum wage buying power until it's raised again). That's a loss in purchasing power from today, but that's often not the case when you compare.

Basically, it makes more sense to focus on purchasing power than it does to focus on the value of silver because that value really had no relation to the coin's value in 1955.

As for the averages you said averages in response to my full time parents post and used them to justify, exactly what, idk.....that it took 2 full time parents back then just like it does now I suppose....ask your elders how many ppl worked 2 full time jobs back then.

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My grandparents were growing up and then starting their own family in the 1950s. If you existed the way they did then, when my grandpa was the sole breadwinner, I assure you that you wouldn't need another income. Try it if you want, but I know it's not a very pleasant way to live. Our modern standard of ravenous and unnecessary consumption was unknown back then.

Johnny Retro said:

tokeprep..sifting through bullshit like its his job. I love it. Still waiting on UB and chesus to respond..

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i have called out a GOP talking point, my life is complete.

twostrokenut said:

idk what nxslk is.

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don't worry, just messing with ya a bit. he was a total tool that we loved to make sport of. alas, we all had no idea what he was capable of.

twostrokenut said:

The minimum wage was a dollar in 1956, ya got me there slick but it doesn't prove your point. The law that changed it to that was passed in 1955. So the math is easier in 1956 to suit my argument cause its 1 but here's 0.75............$12.60 in 90% form and $17.48 in pure troy ounce bullion. Highest current min wage is Nevada $8.25....that is almost exactly half. What part of this will I eventually unlearn on this forum or any other?

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The silver wouldn't be worth that much if it were still in the coins because the government would be fixing the price.

UncleBuck said:

i have called out a GOP talking point, my life is complete.



don't worry, just messing with ya a bit. he was a total tool that we loved to make sport of. alas, we all had no idea what he was capable of.

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no worries I enjoy healthy debate.

Bush was a better president? Are you freaking insane? Did you forget what he did to this country? 6000+ Americans dead for what? Wall street collapse? TARP ? Have we had another 9/11 attack on Obama's watch? Never mind I already know your answer....

lipps said:

Bush was a better president? Are you freaking insane? Did you forget what he did to this country? 6000+ Americans dead for what? Wall street collapse? TARP ? Have we had another 9/11 attack on Obama's watch? Never mind I already know your answer....

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LOL, is that you Buck?

twostrokenut said:

The minimum wage was a dollar in 1956, ya got me there slick but it doesn't prove your point. The law that changed it to that was passed in 1955. So the math is easier in 1956 to suit my argument cause its 1 but here's 0.75............$12.60 in 90% form and $17.48 in pure troy ounce bullion. Highest current min wage is Nevada $8.25....that is almost exactly half. What part of this will I eventually unlearn on this forum or any other?

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Just a quick correction, my brother, I believe both Oregon and Washington are higher. I think WA is at $9.19.

tokeprep said:

A $1 silver coin in 1955 had the same purchasing power as a $1 Federal Reserve Note. The price of silver is irrelevant because it had no bearing on the value of the coin--it was only worth $1, whatever the silver content--because it was fixed by law. The only reason gold and silver prices were allowed to float was because we stopped using them as currency; otherwise the prices have been fixed by law for centuries. What would silver be worth today if world governments imposed price controls?

A 1956 worker earned a minimum wage with a buying power of $1 an hour. The value of silver is irrelevant because it's fixed and there's no way to obtain it, which leaves you with the face value of the coin--$1. Adjusting for inflation, that $1 in 1956 would be equivalent to $8.56 today (but the minimum wage was $1 an hour for the next 5 years, so that was the peak of buying power; if you compare it against 2009, when the minimum wage was last raised, the 1956 dollar is equivalent to $7.89, which was the peak of the minimum wage buying power until it's raised again). That's a loss in purchasing power from today, but that's often not the case when you compare.


Basically, it makes more sense to focus on purchasing power than it does to focus on the value of silver because that value really had no relation to the coin's value in 1955.



My grandparents were growing up and then starting their own family in the 1950s. If you existed the way they did then, when my grandpa was the sole breadwinner, I assure you that you wouldn't need another income. Try it if you want, but I know it's not a very pleasant way to live. Our modern standard of ravenous and unnecessary consumption was unknown back then.

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The price is being held down by world governments because they are dealing in paper. Can't blame them, what would you personally do if you were like them and didn't have nearly the amount of physical commodity on deposit to cover what you have written in paper? BTW that's called "fractional reserve lending" which is a creation of your beloved National Bank. Governments don't like bank runs as demo'd in the 30's in our country. Funny how people lose faith in the economy when they find out their federally regulated banks don't have their savings accounts on deposit kinda freaks them out and causes panic.

That's twice you said the spot price is irrelevant. The price of silver isn't simply irrelevant because you choose it to be, look it up it's called spot price. It's not irrelevant because Legal Tender laws set the face value of 1 dollar to it either. All that means is if you pay your taxes with that coin, they will only count it as one Federal Reserve Note does towards your bill. What you're not getting is that they had to, read: were compelled to by law to assign the face value of of one dollar. The Constitution clearly defines what a dollar is. One troy ounce of silver. An ounce of silver isn't worth a dollar it is a dollar. The taxman takes it as one "credit" but the gold and jewelry pawn gives you 23 "credits" for it and there you go. The reason it is called a dollar is because a Spanish Dollar is what was currently circulating at the time it (constitution)was written.

You're right, I am focusing on purchasing power. At 8 dollars an hour today (min wage), that is, if my employer put 64oz of silver dollars in my hand at the end of my 8 hour shift, then I took those to the pawn shop and sold them to Rick and them on pawn stars, what has happened to my purchasing power compared to cashing my check and getting 64 paper "dollars"....and can I take those to Rick and Corey and Chumlee, will they care?

The fact your grandparents made it on one income proves my point, even if "the way they lived" indicates hardship or being below middle class. My grandparents weren't much better off. They were way below middle class but they still did alright, no one died or starved. Granddad was the sole bread winner, still managed to pay off his house. My granddad used to bitch a lot cause he worked at a factory that was always on strike for like a nickel an hour....they would be out of work for months over that nickel.....I said months so lets do just one month....5 cents per hour, 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, 4 weeks per month is a gain of..............5x8x5x4 = 800 cents. 8 dollars a month. At $1 per hour back (min wage for arguments sake, he made more) then weather paper or coin, loss is 100x8x5x4 = 16000 cents cause they were not earning wages on strike. All washed out is a net loss of 16000 - 800 = 152 dollars lost per month on strike. Even if they got their bargain worked out they lost 152 for the month and only if they (the factory) agreed on the bargain wold they get the 8 per month so they could begin to recoup lost wage for the month. If the bargaining negotiations failed they never got it back. Assuming they were successful, got their raise and now make 8 dollars more per month more than they did before the strike, it would take them 152/8 = 19 months to recover not working for one month. This, coming from a man with no high school education and falling into the "poor" category.

tokeprep said:

The silver wouldn't be worth that much if it were still in the coins because the government would be fixing the price.

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I think that's why the stupid like unions. Love your ava. I miss The Maxx.

woody333333 said:

i thought ron paul died?????............ that was alot to say nothing...........you voted for war the day u voted for gw we wont be sitting round the fire roasting marshmallows anytime soon

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I didn't vote for gw that's your assumption. Edit: I gotz marshmallows, you start the fire.

ClaytonBigsby said:

Just a quick correction, my brother, I believe both Oregon and Washington are higher. I think WA is at $9.19.

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Bro you are hands down, absolutely correct. I got my info here: http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/labor/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx and simply didn't ctrl++ to zoom the small print. Thanks for the correction.

twostrokenut said:

The price is being held down by world governments because they are dealing in paper. Can't blame them, what would you personally do if you were like them and didn't have nearly the amount of physical commodity on deposit to cover what you have written in paper? BTW that's called "fractional reserve lending" which is a creation of your beloved National Bank. Governments don't like bank runs as demo'd in the 30's in our country. Funny how people lose faith in the economy when they find out their federally regulated banks don't have their savings accounts on deposit kinda freaks them out and causes panic.

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The price was being held down by world governments for centuries because it was being used as money. Not anymore. That the price was fixed by the government in the period you referenced underscored that it wasn't a market price.

That's twice you said the spot price is irrelevant. The price of silver isn't simply irrelevant because you choose it to be, look it up it's called spot price. It's not irrelevant because Legal Tender laws set the face value of 1 dollar to it either. All that means is if you pay your taxes with that coin, they will only count it as one Federal Reserve Note does towards your bill. What you're not getting is that they had to, read: were compelled to by law to assign the face value of of one dollar. The Constitution clearly defines what a dollar is. One troy ounce of silver. An ounce of silver isn't worth a dollar it is a dollar. The taxman takes it as one "credit" but the gold and jewelry pawn gives you 23 "credits" for it and there you go. The reason it is called a dollar is because a Spanish Dollar is what was currently circulating at the time it (constitution)was written.

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Spot price is relevant today, but it wasn't relevant in 1955 because the price was fixed. The fact that the coins had some set amount of silver in them had no relevance to the actual value of the coins. For example, 4 quarters between 1932 and 1964 had a face value of $1 and contained silver now worth $16.50. In 1935, $1 was the equivalent of $16.99 in 2013; in 1945, $1 was equivalent to $12.93 in 2013; in 1955, $1 was equivalent to $8.69 in 2013. Even though the silver content was fixed, the coins progressively lost purchasing power, because you couldn't redeem them them for more than they were worth.

You're right, I am focusing on purchasing power. At 8 dollars an hour today (min wage), that is, if my employer put 64oz of silver dollars in my hand at the end of my 8 hour shift, then I took those to the pawn shop and sold them to Rick and them on pawn stars, what has happened to my purchasing power compared to cashing my check and getting 64 paper "dollars"....and can I take those to Rick and Corey and Chumlee, will they care?

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You aren't focusing on purchasing power since the market value of silver had no bearing on the value of the coins. Even though the silver content was the same, the purchasing power of the coin--$1--declined over time. Your argument is based on being able to trade the coin for the cash value of its silver content, but that wasn't possible in the decades you're referencing. Your silver quarters in 1935 were exactly the same face value as your silver quarters in 1960, except the ones in 1935 bought substantially more goods.

The fact your grandparents made it on one income proves my point, even if "the way they lived" indicates hardship or being below middle class. My grandparents weren't much better off. They were way below middle class but they still did alright, no one died or starved. Granddad was the sole bread winner, still managed to pay off his house. My granddad used to bitch a lot cause he worked at a factory that was always on strike for like a nickel an hour....they would be out of work for months over that nickel.....I said months so lets do just one month....5 cents per hour, 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, 4 weeks per month is a gain of..............5x8x5x4 = 800 cents. 8 dollars a month. At $1 per hour back (min wage for arguments sake, he made more) then weather paper or coin, loss is 100x8x5x4 = 16000 cents cause they were not earning wages on strike. All washed out is a net loss of 16000 - 800 = 152 dollars lost per month on strike. Even if they got their bargain worked out they lost 152 for the month and only if they (the factory) agreed on the bargain wold they get the 8 per month so they could begin to recoup lost wage for the month. If the bargaining negotiations failed they never got it back. Assuming they were successful, got their raise and now make 8 dollars more per month more than they did before the strike, it would take them 152/8 = 19 months to recover not working for one month. This, coming from a man with no high school education and falling into the "poor" category.

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I'm not sure how this proves your point.

Silver is not money today? How do you figure that? Colloidal Silver is not 50 notes per bottle? Silver jewelry is not more than spot?

The purchasing power did not decline over time...does pawn stars purchase those coins for their collector value???? Sometimes, if it has numismatic (collector) value they pay above spot, but they always have intrinsic value that is spot price, which is above the face value assigned....their scrap value is more than face value, period. Which is why your bank/gov took them out of your pocket, and replaced them with the zinc/paper you carry today.

4 quarters would purchase x amount of groceries in 1956...those same exact quarters will still purchase those same groceries today, your just have to visit a silver broker first to reclaim your intrinsic value from the quarters because most ppl retailers stores bank tellers whatever don't even know its a silver quarter and will only accept it for face. Dig?

Thing you have to wrap your head around is that the paper dollar is a bank note for a dollar...it represents what is on deposit at the bank......a note is a note just like a car note you pay on....the car note represents the car but the note is not a car, and is not your car till its paid off with interest......says so right on the front...Federal Reserve Note....it says 1 dollar too which means it represents a dollar. If you go to the bank and deposit a smoked ham and they accept the ham for value, agree to keep it on deposit for you and issue you a receipt for your deposit...you have a bank note for a ham in your pocket. If you want ham for supper you can eat the note if you want to but its not a ham. You can trade your ham note for real goods and services based on who you trade with can redeem the note for the ham. You can trade your ham note for another "investment" or paper stock, bond whatever....at this point you are just gambling, like wall street.

The fact that we can't redeem our notes for a dollar as the law requires is a whole other can of worms. You know that little section on the note that says "legal tender for all debts public and private"? That is a section of the USCode and that is just an excerpt of the code. You should read the rest.

twostrokenut said:

Silver is not money today? How do you figure that? Colloidal Silver is not 50 notes per bottle? Silver jewelry is not more than spot?

The purchasing power did not decline over time...does pawn stars purchase those coins for their collector value???? Sometimes, if it has numismatic (collector) value they pay above spot, but they always have intrinsic value that is spot price, which is above the face value assigned....their scrap value is more than face value, period. Which is why your bank/gov took them out of your pocket, and replaced them with the zinc/paper you carry today.

4 quarters would purchase x amount of groceries in 1956...those same exact quarters will still purchase those same groceries today, your just have to visit a silver broker first to reclaim your intrinsic value from the quarters because most ppl retailers stores bank tellers whatever don't even know its a silver quarter and will only accept it for face. Dig?

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I have no problem understanding any of that. You haven't explained how you would be obtaining market prices for silver if it were still contained in coins, though, since there wouldn't be a market. You're also outright ignoring the undeniable fact that silver lost value over time because the price was fixed. $1.29 in currency after 20 years doesn't buy $1.29 worth of goods. If the price is fixed, your pawn shop vision is just a fanciful one.

Thing you have to wrap your head around is that the paper dollar is a bank note for a dollar...it represents what is on deposit at the bank......a note is a note just like a car note you pay on....the car note represents the car but the note is not a car, and is not your car till its paid off with interest......says so right on the front...Federal Reserve Note....it says 1 dollar too which means it represents a dollar. If you go to the bank and deposit a smoked ham and they accept the ham for value, agree to keep it on deposit for you and issue you a receipt for your deposit...you have a bank note for a ham in your pocket. If you want ham for supper you can eat the note if you want to but its not a ham. You can trade your ham note for real goods and services based on who you trade with can redeem the note for the ham. You can trade your ham note for another "investment" or paper stock, bond whatever....at this point you are just gambling, like wall street.

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Silver is just a thing like a bank note. If you want your money to be in silver, buy silver. It may or may not work out for you.

The main point here is that if silver were still contained in coins, the government would certainly be fixing the price, because it wouldn't be practical otherwise. That's why they fixed the price for centuries. Accordingly, if you were being paid today with modern silver coins, they wouldn't be worth the current market price of silver--that market wouldn't and probably couldn't exist.

twostrokenut said:

The fact that we can't redeem our notes for a dollar as the law requires is a whole other can of worms. You know that little section on the note that says "legal tender for all debts public and private"? That is a section of the USCode and that is just an excerpt of the code. You should read the rest.

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I did. There wasn't much else there.

The dollar is whatever Congress says it is.

Everything is a thing. But some things are imaginary and some things are real. Rather than being physically identical to the thing it represents, a note describes what it represents....just as if you wrote a note about your day it would describe the events....A note represents an idea of a physical thing, which is a thing that exists only in the mind, true or false?

"They" didn't fix the price for centuries. "We" did. Cause "We" had more than "They" did.

Let me say it..................again.............
Explanation of how to obtain market price for a coin: Go to a coin dealer.