injunction/court case updates

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
So will it be possible to obtain a dosage change after this court session is heard for anyone within the MMAR and if so can you go to any doctor or chinese medicine doctor/ even a nurse practitioner I had heard...my initial doctor had some kind of mental health issue and shut his doors and told all of his patients that they needed to find another doctor. So if I changed my dosage I'd need to find another doctor. I wonder how hard that would be in BC?
Someone else has had their address change pushed through in a provincial case by Tousaw in BC so that's probably something in your favour, but I wouldn't expect a dosage change, at most you'd get address / other details changed.

If Phelan chooses constitutional exemption as a remedy then you're pretty much good on all counts, otherwise I'd question how useful a dosage change would be (remember injunction is gone after new MMPR is in place).
 

doingdishes

Well-Known Member
Someone else has had their address change pushed through in a provincial case by Tousaw in BC so that's probably something in your favour, but I wouldn't expect a dosage change, at most you'd get address / other details changed.

If Phelan chooses constitutional exemption as a remedy then you're pretty much good on all counts, otherwise I'd question how useful a dosage change would be (remember injunction is gone after new MMPR is in place).
Tousaw lost both the address changes cases. he got their carry limit increased. they had asked to be able to produce "at any house they live in"
those are the ones I know of that he recently did. are you aware of anything else? the above was 2 of the 4 cases he had at the BC Supreme Court
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
Yep you're 100% correct, for some reason I thought they had also done address changes in addition to the possession limits being changed, so nix the BC stuff then. But it's still likely you won't get dosage changes until August.
 

WHATFG

Well-Known Member
Yep you're 100% correct, for some reason I thought they had also done address changes in addition to the possession limits being changed, so nix the BC stuff then. But it's still likely you won't get dosage changes until August.
I can see problems there as well...especially given the "new" average script sizes...me going and asking for an increase on a lb a month is probably not going to happen...not that I'm going to because I don't need it...just sayin'
 

buckets

Well-Known Member
I wonder what number or formula the feds will come up with. Will they be able to legislate a maximum plant count and if yes, what would that magic number be? If it's to low I'm sure it'll be challenged in court.
 

doingdishes

Well-Known Member
CONroy is in court today for address changes and dosage limits (i think )
let's hope he's successful on the address change.
the 150g limit should just be off. it was a MMPR thing which was found unconstitutional per Phelan in Allard
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
I wonder what number or formula the feds will come up with. Will they be able to legislate a maximum plant count and if yes, what would that magic number be? If it's to low I'm sure it'll be challenged in court.
Only a doctor can determine dosage and a patient has the right to grow what they need. HC has their hands tied when it comes to regulating personal mmj gardens, imo, when the courts have ruled they pose no danger and HC did not disagree with the ruling. Plant counts were a prohibition era restriction that loses relevance once it's legal. There will be a lot less worry about diversion to the BM when everybody can grow their own for rec.
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
Haven't seen anything on Tousaw or the other usual twitter's so not sure. I'm going to try and find the case on the federal court's site, there's at least a chance updates will be there.

when the courts have ruled they pose no danger
Nope (and this is an important distinction). Phelan did not rule that home-grow poses absolutely no danger, but that the danger was quite overblown by the crown and there are mitigations (such as the 'bloom box' and other methods). The devil is in the details when it comes to what HC will specify as 'mitigations' and whether they're reasonable or not.
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
Update from the man Tousaw himself:

Argument near done. John urged expansion to all MMAR since Jan 2013. Crown says no reason to act now and HC working on fix.
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
Nope (and this is an important distinction). Phelan did not rule that home-grow poses absolutely no danger, but that the danger was quite overblown by the crown and there are mitigations (such as the 'bloom box' and other methods). The devil is in the details when it comes to what HC will specify as 'mitigations' and whether they're reasonable or not.
I think you are reading too much into the ruling and maybe setting yourself up to expect the absolute worst case scenario. I heard nothing in the ruling that would suggest gardens are dangerous unless confined to a 'bloom box'. What I heard was the restriction of my freedom to grow my own medicine was unwarranted due to the minimal risk posed to myself or the public from growing. It would be hard to argue a properly installed grow is inherently more dangerous than a wood stove...or even your kitchen stove. They tried that and it didn't work out so well for them, I really don't think we have much to worry about.
 

Gmack420

Well-Known Member
From kirks fb
"Allard submissions on amending remedy to include all MMAR producers since Jan 2013 and to allow address changes are done. Crown basically says no real need and Judge gave them six months to fix so let them fix. Decision reserved which means we will likely hear in a couple weeks."
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
I think you are reading too much into the ruling and maybe setting yourself up to expect the absolute worst case scenario. I heard nothing in the ruling that would suggest gardens are dangerous unless confined to a 'bloom box'. What I heard was the restriction of my freedom to grow my own medicine was unwarranted due to the minimal risk posed to myself or the public from growing. It would be hard to argue a properly installed grow is inherently more dangerous than a wood stove...or even your kitchen stove. They tried that and it didn't work out so well for them, I really don't think we have much to worry about.
From the judgement itself:

The Bloom Box is an example of a self-contained hydroponic grow box that can be used to
safely and inexpensively grow cannabis without odour and does not use excessive amounts of
power. It costs $3,300 plus tax. I find the purpose of this evidence was to illustrate that
marihuana can be cultivated effectively, safely and cheaply without massive investment or the
measures necessary to address the hazards associated with large growing operations.


I agree that the Plaintiffs have, on a balance of probabilities, demonstrated that cannabis
can be produced safely and securely with limited risk to public safety and consistently with the
promotion of public health. I again emphasize that the object of the restriction is not to eliminate
the risk to health and safety but to reduce it, and on that conception, there are very simple
measures that can be taken to minimally impact the section 7 interests.


[283] Accepting that fire, mould, diversion, theft and violence are risks that inherently exist to a
certain degree - although I note that these risks were not detailed - this significant restriction
punishes those who are able to safely produce by abiding with local laws and taking simple
precautions to reduce such risk. A complete restriction is not minimal impairment. As mentioned
above, the mould and fire risks are addressed by complying with the Safety Standards Act and
installing proper ventilation systems. Further, as demonstrated by the Plaintiffs, a security system
reduces risk of theft and violence.


Regarding 150g limit, that was NOT found unconstitutional:

[287] I agree with the Defendant, in the section 7 analysis, that the burden is on the Plaintiffs to
establish that the 150 gram possession limit impacts them in a significant way. Although the
Plaintiffs may have to purchase their marihuana more frequently and restrict the number of days
they travel or transport the drug because of this restriction, the cap is not overbroad or grossly
disproportionate
because it bears a connection to the objective – it reduces the implied risk of
theft, violence and diversion for which there has been no substantial or persuasive evidence.
[288] Overall, this restriction is significantly different than the restriction on cultivation as the
cultivation restriction is a complete ban without minimal impairment that affects individuals
adversely to the legislation’s objective. The possession cap still allows one to possess more than
their necessary amount of marihuana. There is nothing stopping Parliament from legislating
cultivation in a similar way that ensures that significant measures are taken to reduce risk, such
as mandatory installation of security or ventilation systems (assuming that these measures are
constitutionally sound).

[245] For the specific health issue of toxic mould, the Defendant relied on the expert evidence
of Dr. Miller. Dr. Miller noted that each marihuana plant added as much moisture to a house as
approximately seven to ten houseplants. He specifically expressed concern with growing in a
multi-unit residential building. The Plaintiffs’ witnesses, Mr. Schut, Mr. Colasanti and Mr. Nash,
stated that proper steps must be taken to remove the excess moisture. I find that although mould
appears to be a valid concern, the evidence demonstrates that the concern is extinguished with a
proper ventilation system.


So essentially Phelan acknowledges the risks, but agrees they can be mitigated with 'proper' measures, so the question is how the government defines proper. A complete restriction is not justified, but 'proper' / 'reasonable' is. Is it reasonable to be forced to let city / fire inspectors come in without justification? That remains to be seen, both in the govt's response and any future court litigation. Your Charter rights are not unlimited (hence the whole point of s.1).

Also with regard to 150g, although Phelan has blown away the whole MMPR, the govt is not required to up the limit over 150g. This is a good example of Charter rights not being unlimited, you have a 'right' to mobility across the country, but that does not work out to you can carry unlimited amounts of mmj.
 

TheDizzyBizzy

Well-Known Member
From the judgement itself:

The Bloom Box is an example of a self-contained hydroponic grow box that can be used to
safely and inexpensively grow cannabis without odour and does not use excessive amounts of
power. It costs $3,300 plus tax. I find the purpose of this evidence was to illustrate that
marihuana can be cultivated effectively, safely and cheaply without massive investment or the
measures necessary to address the hazards associated with large growing operations.


I agree that the Plaintiffs have, on a balance of probabilities, demonstrated that cannabis
can be produced safely and securely with limited risk to public safety and consistently with the
promotion of public health. I again emphasize that the object of the restriction is not to eliminate
the risk to health and safety but to reduce it, and on that conception, there are very simple
measures that can be taken to minimally impact the section 7 interests.


[283] Accepting that fire, mould, diversion, theft and violence are risks that inherently exist to a
certain degree - although I note that these risks were not detailed - this significant restriction
punishes those who are able to safely produce by abiding with local laws and taking simple
precautions to reduce such risk. A complete restriction is not minimal impairment. As mentioned
above, the mould and fire risks are addressed by complying with the Safety Standards Act and
installing proper ventilation systems. Further, as demonstrated by the Plaintiffs, a security system
reduces risk of theft and violence.


Regarding 150g limit, that was NOT found unconstitutional:

[287] I agree with the Defendant, in the section 7 analysis, that the burden is on the Plaintiffs to
establish that the 150 gram possession limit impacts them in a significant way. Although the
Plaintiffs may have to purchase their marihuana more frequently and restrict the number of days
they travel or transport the drug because of this restriction, the cap is not overbroad or grossly
disproportionate
because it bears a connection to the objective – it reduces the implied risk of
theft, violence and diversion for which there has been no substantial or persuasive evidence.
[288] Overall, this restriction is significantly different than the restriction on cultivation as the
cultivation restriction is a complete ban without minimal impairment that affects individuals
adversely to the legislation’s objective. The possession cap still allows one to possess more than
their necessary amount of marihuana. There is nothing stopping Parliament from legislating
cultivation in a similar way that ensures that significant measures are taken to reduce risk, such
as mandatory installation of security or ventilation systems (assuming that these measures are
constitutionally sound).

[245] For the specific health issue of toxic mould, the Defendant relied on the expert evidence
of Dr. Miller. Dr. Miller noted that each marihuana plant added as much moisture to a house as
approximately seven to ten houseplants. He specifically expressed concern with growing in a
multi-unit residential building. The Plaintiffs’ witnesses, Mr. Schut, Mr. Colasanti and Mr. Nash,
stated that proper steps must be taken to remove the excess moisture. I find that although mould
appears to be a valid concern, the evidence demonstrates that the concern is extinguished with a
proper ventilation system.


So essentially Phelan acknowledges the risks, but agrees they can be mitigated with 'proper' measures, so the question is how the government defines proper. A complete restriction is not justified, but 'proper' / 'reasonable' is. Is it reasonable to be forced to let city / fire inspectors come in without justification? That remains to be seen, both in the govt's response and any future court litigation. Your Charter rights are not unlimited (hence the whole point of s.1).

Also with regard to 150g, although Phelan has blown away the whole MMPR, the govt is not required to up the limit over 150g. This is a good example of Charter rights not being unlimited, you have a 'right' to mobility across the country, but that does not work out to you can carry unlimited amounts of mmj.
Why are you quoting that like it's Phelan's words? It's him referencing what Remo said. You kmart lawyer sneed to stop.
 

nsbudca

Well-Known Member
I don't know how many people can just drop 3300 plus tax on a grow box right away. That's a paycheque and a bit for me. Well more than that after you add taxes.

Would they allow patients to build their own? I guess we'll have to see what the specs are.
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
I don't know how many people can just drop 3300 plus tax on a grow box right away. That's a paycheque and a bit for me. Well more than that after you add taxes.

Would they allow patients to build their own? I guess we'll have to see what the specs are.
I would assume so, Phelan's judgement outlines the 'bloom box' as one of many possibilities. So people who have the funds and just want a complete 'package' can do something like the bloom box, others can do grow tent + mh / hps or led.
 
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