Insect damage or is it due to something else?

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David August

Member
Hi guys, inspecting my plants I found this sprout that looks gnawed/damaged but I checked all the leaves and all the plants even with a good microscope and nothing is moving.. I thought it could be due to some pH imbalance but I leave the word to you experts
I thank you in advance
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FirstCavApache64

FirstCavApache64

Well-Known Member
Just saw nobody had replied to this for you. I'd say it's just an environmental thing that happened to the leaf as it was coming out. It could be a number of things but as long as you scoped the plant carefully I wouldn't worry too much. Sometimes they just grow a wonky leaf and it's not a big deal. There's some chlorosis in one of the pics that I'd be looking at however. It could just be from where it was getting overlapped by another leaf and formed moisture or it could be a deficiency starting to show. Just keep an eye out for bleaching in between the veins and if it starts to spread or worsen update this thread with pics so we can figure it out.
 
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David August

Member
FirstCavApache64 said:
Just saw nobody had replied to this for you. I'd say it's just an environmental thing that happened to the leaf as it was coming out. It could be a number of things but as long as you scoped the plant carefully I wouldn't worry too much. Sometimes they just grow a wonky leaf and it's not a big deal. There's some chlorosis in one of the pics that I'd be looking at however. It could just be from where it was getting overlapped by another leaf and formed moisture or it could be a deficiency starting to show. Just keep an eye out for bleaching in between the veins and if it starts to spread or worsen update this thread with pics so we can figure it out.
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I thank you so much for answering me, I thought no one would honestly ahahah anyway as soon as I get home I'll take more pictures because to be honest checking here and there during the days I found kind of rips on the leaves and the same discolorations... it looks almost bitten but I pulled the leaf off and checked every inch without finding anything. It has happened to me before to find these marks that look like scars, tears or small irregular holes/bites but I never ended up with any kind of infestation and I wanted to understand why. I had a thrips infestation once but by now I would know if it was them and it doesn't look like them to me.
Then I would also like to understand if a pH fluctuation or any environmental factor could cause this kind of holes/tears ,besides the marks in the pictures I mean.
As for the chlorosis it is much better now and has regained color, as I will show you in the pictures, and I think it was due to the fact that the plant had just been transferred to a pot with prefertilized soil and before that it had not taken any nutrients other than rooting agent. Then consider that I use purified water and being obliged to use that (toxic tap water) even in the first stage it gave me problems..
 
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David August

Member
FirstCavApache64 said:
Just saw nobody had replied to this for you. I'd say it's just an environmental thing that happened to the leaf as it was coming out. It could be a number of things but as long as you scoped the plant carefully I wouldn't worry too much. Sometimes they just grow a wonky leaf and it's not a big deal. There's some chlorosis in one of the pics that I'd be looking at however. It could just be from where it was getting overlapped by another leaf and formed moisture or it could be a deficiency starting to show. Just keep an eye out for bleaching in between the veins and if it starts to spread or worsen update this thread with pics so we can figure it out.
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Ok guys these are the pictures just taken of my plants. they are doing great but these signs seem to be more than before and another plant has the same damage to a leaf
Any advice is welcome
@Joe.Grow @TheAmazingDoctorZymes
PS: I'm looking again for any insects but nothing...I also see for thrips that some gray speckles I've seen but these marks in the picture never left them for me....Screenshot_2022-11-08-14-19-29-765_com.miui.gallery.jpgScreenshot_2022-11-08-14-19-29-765_com.miui.gallery.jpgIMG_20221108_141900.jpgIMG_20221108_141835.jpgIMG_20221108_141816.jpgIMG_20221108_141806.jpgIMG_20221108_141739.jpgIMG_20221108_141723.jpgIMG_20221108_141642.jpgIMG_20221108_141610.jpg
 

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David August

Member
FirstCavApache64 said:
Have you looked up under the leaves on the plant with a microscope or loupe? It looks like insect damage but I can't tell for sure.
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Yes, I have tried with a good microscope but to no avail! I checked both from the plant directly and by taking some leaves to check more closely but nothing.... In fact I was asking if with more experienced eyes , also seeing hundreds of photos, you could link these symptoms to something other than insects. Anyway I am spraying them tonight to be on the safe side with a Spinosad product which has helped me a lot in the past but I swear when it was thrips the leaves were full of silver streaks and they did not even have bitten leaves
 
FirstCavApache64

FirstCavApache64

Well-Known Member
David August said:
Yes, I have tried with a good microscope but to no avail! I checked both from the plant directly and by taking some leaves to check more closely but nothing.... In fact I was asking if with more experienced eyes , also seeing hundreds of photos, you could link these symptoms to something other than insects. Anyway I am spraying them tonight to be on the safe side with a Spinosad product which has helped me a lot in the past but I swear when it was thrips the leaves were full of silver streaks and they did not even have bitten leaves
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Wish I could tell you for sure, I've seen a fair amount of plants and done a good amount of research but that is a weird one to me. It looks a lot like bug damage but I've had plants with bad interveinal chlorosis get holes like that from the tissue damage of the Magnesium deficiency. I've seen bad calcium deficiency do leaf damage that was hard to read as well. A thrip infestation is usually pretty easy to see with the leaf damage and drops of dew they leave behind if it's bad enough. Especially since you've been through it and know what to look for. I'd give them a spray regardless as you're in veg and it will only help without any harmful effects from trying it.
Lets hope it's just a micro nutrient deficiency caused by being rootbound and drying out too much when you had them in the smaller pots. That will sort itself out as the roots fill in the new soil.
When you say they were transplanted into pre fertilized soil, what ferts and how much did you use? That is the other avenue I'd think about. Too much of a certain nutrient could be blocking the uptake of one of the others.
Again, sorry for no definitive answer. Sometimes it's a bit of a detective process as I'm sure you know by now. Hope my answer gets you on the right track.
 
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David August

Member
FirstCavApache64 said:
Wish I could tell you for sure, I've seen a fair amount of plants and done a good amount of research but that is a weird one to me. It looks a lot like bug damage but I've had plants with bad interveinal chlorosis get holes like that from the tissue damage of the Magnesium deficiency. I've seen bad calcium deficiency do leaf damage that was hard to read as well. A thrip infestation is usually pretty easy to see with the leaf damage and drops of dew they leave behind if it's bad enough. Especially since you've been through it and know what to look for. I'd give them a spray regardless as you're in veg and it will only help without any harmful effects from trying it.
Lets hope it's just a micro nutrient deficiency caused by being rootbound and drying out too much when you had them in the smaller pots. That will sort itself out as the roots fill in the new soil.
When you say they were transplanted into pre fertilized soil, what ferts and how much did you use? That is the other avenue I'd think about. Too much of a certain nutrient could be blocking the uptake of one of the others.
Again, sorry for no definitive answer. Sometimes it's a bit of a detective process as I'm sure you know by now. Hope my answer gets you on the right track.
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Don't worry, in fact thank you very much for your time! Anyway I already proceeded with spinosad and defoliated quite a bit as well and we will see how it will turn out.. anyway I thought that could also be the problem since the water I have is reverse osmosis purified last night I added some cal/Mag in the irrigation water and let's see if they respond well!
Basically I only gave voodoo Juice from advanced nutrients for the first 3 weeks and transplanted into 17 liter pots each, inside is royal mix from plagron which covers me about 4 weeks of fertilization and then when they start to get hungry I start with flowering products also from advanced nutrients!
Thank you again brother I appreciate it :blsmoke:
 
FirstCavApache64

FirstCavApache64

Well-Known Member
Taking some leaves was probably a good idea, I don't like to recommend defoliation to others as it gets such a hot button reaction with opinions all over the place. If they were in smaller pots for just 3 weeks then the roots should be good. Unless there was an overwatering issue during that time.
Sounds like a good plan going forward, update the thread if anything gets worse and we'll try to get it sorted between everyone.
 
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David August

Member
FirstCavApache64 said:
Taking some leaves was probably a good idea, I don't like to recommend defoliation to others as it gets such a hot button reaction with opinions all over the place. If they were in smaller pots for just 3 weeks then the roots should be good. Unless there was an overwatering issue during that time.
Sounds like a good plan going forward, update the thread if anything gets worse and we'll try to get it sorted between everyone.
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Let's just say I'm not a big fan of extreme defoliation but with plants with very narrow internodes I like to clean them up a bit! Then in this case I think I'm a bit more effective this way and I get much better at covering all the leaves above and below thoroughly... anyway the problem was that the pots were exaggeratedly small and out of laziness and necessity I delayed the transplanting a bit too much! The pots were drying in a day and when I took them out of the pot it was obvious that the pots were too small.. anyway it's ok, thank you very much for your helpfulness brother, I will update the thread in a week and see if things improve
 
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David August

Member
Joe.Grow said:
did you use ph up on yout ro water? my ro ph is 5.5, a bit too low for nutrient uptake
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No but when I have to change the filters they go down to 5.5! I think it's due to the area where you live and the type of system, my water comes out at 6.5/6.8 with 20PPM but consider that my system is one of those that they install in bars and it cost me 3000 euros that I'm still paying for:wall:
 
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