Is cannabis use a sin?

Dislexicmidget2021 said:
^circular logic ,everything still comes down to perspective but it is the conveying quality of that perspective that determines whether or not there is any meaningful discussion that can take place,you cant have it both ways when it comes to finding meaning behind answers.
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Speak for yourself, and I mean this in the nicest possible way. "You" can't have it both ways, doesn't mean that "I" cannot.

Zaehet Strife said:
If they can be all right and wrong... how can you be certain your answer is the correct one?
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I am not saying I have any answers, or that I am either correct or wrong. Just stating my personal beliefs, but I do appreciate your scrutiny. I will say that your inquisitions (from past discussion) have led me to question myself and to shed some old belief systems. Funny because we almost always disagree on most subject matter!
 
cannabineer said:
I won't be able to resist, so here goes. The plurality of interpretations of religious texts ... how do we know which one is right? The texts themselves are generally replete with warnings against wrong interpretations. cn
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This is why we must use Nature/Experience to confirm truth. Using any Book to confirm truth is useless without outside validation. Like I stated in previous posts, we can use moderation as an example: Books like the Bible tell us to be moderate in all things. That can mean different things to different people. In the United States, obesity is the number 1 Health Epidemic. This natural Fact confirms Biblical Truth; immodest eating causes premature death and diseases.

In other areas of the World, this particular example might not apply, but other areas would, as all Humans struggle with some type of gluttony (over indulgence).
 
Mister Sister said:
Speak for yourself, and I mean this in the nicest possible way. "You" can't have it both ways, doesn't mean that "I" cannot.



I am not saying I have any answers, or that I am either correct or wrong. Just stating my personal beliefs, but I do appreciate your scrutiny. I will say that your inquisitions (from past discussion) have led me to question myself and to shed some old belief systems. Funny because we almost always disagree on most subject matter!
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Lol yea i know... but weird thing is, that i really like you and i really like your ideas too.

It's always nice to hear of someone who has enough courage to question their supernatural beliefs. Even if you choose to keep them, i choose to keep mine too... yet with the understanding that they may be wrong, i think that is key.
 
Mister Sister said:
I will say that your inquisitions (from past discussion) have led me to question myself and to shed some old belief systems. Funny because we almost always disagree on most subject matter!
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:clap: You know, reading that makes me all tingly inside. The fact is that inquiring as to why someone believes something and having those reasons challenged allows you to shed potentially unsupportable beliefs is one of the reasons I like participating in these threads. People that won't question their beliefs (as well as those that give lip-service to the idea) are the truly closed-minded people. Skepticism is all about questioning, and without questioning, mankind wouldn't know the things we do. We wouldn't have science or technology, we would still be living in caves, yet so many religious and 'spiritual' people find it offensive that we question religion or spirituality. I don't question my or other people's beliefs with any animosity but I sure do get a lot of it in return.

I would love to hear details on what you used to believe, what you shed and why.
 
Guitar Man said:
This is why we must use Nature/Experience to confirm truth. Using any Book to confirm truth is useless without outside validation. Like I stated in previous posts, we can use moderation as an example: Books like the Bible tell us to be moderate in all things. That can mean different things to different people. In the United States, obesity is the number 1 Health Epidemic. This natural Fact confirms Biblical Truth; immodest eating causes premature death and diseases.

In other areas of the World, this particular example might not apply, but other areas would, as all Humans struggle with some type of gluttony (over indulgence).
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If I restrict myself to the Bible, we have dozens of denominations at something like war with one another over doctrinal matters all supposedly derived from the same core text. To me, this strongly undermines the claim to be a living and divine document. They all recognize the principle of moderation (except those who take moderation to amazing and distasteful excess) but quibble about implementation. A true text would not support such sniping. Jmo. cn
 
cannabineer said:
If I restrict myself to the Bible, we have dozens of denominations at something like war with one another over doctrinal matters all supposedly derived from the same core text. To me, this strongly undermines the claim to be a living and divine document. They all recognize the principle of moderation (except those who take moderation to amazing and distasteful excess) but quibble about implementation. A true text would not support such sniping. Jmo. cn
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The Bible is nothing more than the Face of Mankind. Fault, failure, success, goodness, murder, divorce, immorality, war, disease, music, poetry, forgiveness, love, and the darkness of Religion, these are all revealed in Scripture in great detail. The Bible pulls no punches in manifesting who we are at ANY moment in our lives. I've told people, "If you want a mirror that will meet you at any point in your life, pick up a Bible".

Think about this: Jesus Christ told "God's Chosen" or those who thought they were on God's side, "You are blind guides! Whited Scheplucars, full of dead man’s bones! Hypocrites!" This is important because most people seem to think that Jesus Christ was not hostile towards modern Religion/Faith which was based off of Old Testament Laws.

I see today’s Religion/Faith as no different than thousands of years ago, where people became entrenched in an idea that soon fell into vain Tradition. We must do our best to avoid this trap, otherwise we will exact the same false Laws as the Scribes and Pharisees, where mercy and judgment have been corrupted.

When Jesus died on the cross, the Veil in the Temple was ripped in two, exposing what??? Most never think about what was seen after this event took place: The Mercy Seat. True mercy understands that Mankind is incapable of agreeing on ANY Book, no matter how PERFECT it is. In fact, I'm glad the Bible is not a perfect Book, because we could never handle such a Book. This Book was written by men, imperfect men, and the error in Scripture gives me hope.
 
Guitar Man said:
The Bible is nothing more than the Face of Mankind. Fault, failure, success, goodness, murder, divorce, immorality, war, disease, music, poetry, forgiveness, love, and the darkness of Religion, these are all revealed in Scripture in great detail. The Bible pulls no punches in manifesting who we are at ANY moment in our lives. I've told people, "If you want a mirror that will meet you at any point in your life, pick up a Bible".

Think about this: Jesus Christ told "God's Chosen" or those who thought they were on God's side, "You are blind guides! Whited Scheplucars, full of dead man’s bones! Hypocrites!" This is important because most people seem to think that Jesus Christ was not hostile towards modern Religion/Faith which was based off of Old Testament Laws.

I see today’s Religion/Faith as no different than thousands of years ago, where people became entrenched in an idea that soon fell into vain Tradition. We must do our best to avoid this trap, otherwise we will exact the same false Laws as the Scribes and Pharisees, where mercy and judgment have been corrupted.

When Jesus died on the cross, the Veil in the Temple was ripped in two, exposing what??? Most never think about what was seen after this event took place: The Mercy Seat. True mercy understands that Mankind is incapable of agreeing on ANY Book, no matter how PERFECT it is. In fact, I'm glad the Bible is not a perfect Book, because we could never handle such a Book. This Book was written by men, imperfect men, and the error in Scripture gives me hope.
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Then what of the core doctrine that the Bible is the word of God? In your last sentences you admit that it was imperfectly written by men. I can see no compelling elements in either the text or the traditions built on it that point to divine power at work. That is the entire point of gods: they have power beyond the human and use it. An omniscient but nullipotent God (as conceived by certain Jewish intellectuals) is uninteresting at day's end.
And a text with built-in contradictions ... I cannot and will not accept as anything else than a purely human construct/fabrication. I will not countenance its description as either inspired or approved by a deity that is remarkably unavailable for comment. My opinion. cn
 
cannabineer said:
Then what of the core doctrine that the Bible is the word of God? In your last sentences you admit that it was imperfectly written by men. I can see no compelling elements in either the text or the traditions built on it that point to divine power at work. That is the entire point of gods: they have power beyond the human and use it. An omniscient but nullipotent God (as conceived by certain Jewish intellectuals) is uninteresting at day's end.
And a text with built-in contradictions ... I cannot and will not accept as anything else than a purely human construct/fabrication. I will not countenance its description as either inspired or approved by a deity that is remarkably unavailable for comment. My opinion. cn
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This is where I'm different; the Bible is NOT perfect because imperfect men wrote it. Others claim the Word of God to be infallible, but I wholeheartedly disagree. The Bible is full of mistakes, just like any other Book. There is nothing perfect on Earth, nothing. The Bible also indicates that we were created in God's image, which would allow for interpretations that lead to many questions; has God failed before? has God hated? does God feel anger that we feel? does God cry? Again, Creation reveals answers that validate Scripture and understanding is easily obtained IF we open our eyes to the truth of our surroundings.

God is available for comment: get off this damn Forum, shut the fucking computer OFF, don't answer the telephone, go outside in the quiet evening and look up into the heavens! God is CLEARLY seen by the things that are MADE! From the machine of the Human Body, to the Black Hole in the farthest Universe, God's Signature is there for ALL to SEE!
 
Guitar Man said:
This is where I'm different; the Bible is NOT perfect because imperfect men wrote it. Others claim the Word of God to be infallible, but I wholeheartedly disagree. The Bible is full of mistakes, just like any other Book. There is nothing perfect on Earth, nothing. The Bible also indicates that we were created in God's image, which would allow for interpretations that lead to many questions; has God failed before? has God hated? does God feel anger that we feel? does God cry? Again, Creation reveals answers that validate Scripture and understanding is easily obtained IF we open our eyes to the truth of our surroundings.

God is available for comment: get off this damn Forum, shut the fucking computer OFF, don't answer the telephone, go outside in the quiet evening and look up into the heavens! God is CLEARLY seen by the things that are MADE! From the machine of the Human Body, to the Black Hole in the farthest Universe, God's Signature is there for ALL to SEE!
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Hey, GM. I'm wondering if you realize that the bolded above is subjective. You probably do, you seem intelligent. It's kind of amusing that you give this advice to Neer, as he is an avid astronomer and from what I can gather, he finds intricate beauty and wonder in the complexity of the cosmos. As do I. I love the sense of awe and wonder that I receive when I contemplate the universe, revel in nature, experience a great piece of music, or have an intimate moment with a friend or loved one. But I do not see god or designer in any of these things, nor do I see a need to. One of the many great talents humans have is the ability to detect patterns, or intentionality, where none actually exist. From our perspective, when we create it is on purpose, and all that we create is designed (the watch has a watchmaker and a painting has a painter. A good book on this concept is Dawkins' The Blind Watchmaker). It seems humans were evolved to anthropomorphize, so it's easy to understand the tendency to insist that nature and the cosmos itself must have a designer. I'm not saying that it is impossible for there to be a designer, I'm just stating that there is no need to posit one and the evidence does not point in that direction. To me, a late Beethoven string quartet, or watching my girlfriend get out of the shower, would be just as beautiful whether or not a deity exists...
 
tyler.durden said:
Hey, GM. I'm wondering if you realize that the bolded above is subjective. You probably do, you seem intelligent. It's kind of amusing that you give this advice to Neer, as he is an avid astronomer and from what I can gather, he finds intricate beauty and wonder in the complexity of the cosmos. As do I. I love the sense of awe and wonder that I receive when I contemplate the universe, revel in nature, experience a great piece of music, or have an intimate moment with a friend or loved one. But I do not see god or designer in any of these things, nor do I see a need to. One of the many great talents humans have is the ability to detect patterns, or intentionality, where none actually exist. From our perspective, when we create it is on purpose, and all that we create is designed (the watch has a watchmaker and a painting has a painter. A good book on this concept is Dawkins' The Blind Watchmaker). It seems humans were evolved to anthropomorphize, so it's easy to understand the tendency to insist that nature and the cosmos itself must have a designer. I'm not saying that it is impossible for there to be a designer, I'm just stating that there is no need to posit one and the evidence does not point in that direction. To me, a late Beethoven string quartet, or watching my girlfriend get out of the shower, would be just as beautiful whether or not a deity exists...
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Purely Epic.
 
tyler.durden said:
Hey, GM. I'm wondering if you realize that the bolded above is subjective. You probably do, you seem intelligent. It's kind of amusing that you give this advice to Neer, as he is an avid astronomer and from what I can gather, he finds intricate beauty and wonder in the complexity of the cosmos. As do I. I love the sense of awe and wonder that I receive when I contemplate the universe, revel in nature, experience a great piece of music, or have an intimate moment with a friend or loved one. But I do not see god or designer in any of these things, nor do I see a need to. One of the many great talents humans have is the ability to detect patterns, or intentionality, where none actually exist. From our perspective, when we create it is on purpose, and all that we create is designed (the watch has a watchmaker and a painting has a painter. A good book on this concept is Dawkins' The Blind Watchmaker). It seems humans were evolved to anthropomorphize, so it's easy to understand the tendency to insist that nature and the cosmos itself must have a designer. I'm not saying that it is impossible for there to be a designer, I'm just stating that there is no need to posit one and the evidence does not point in that direction. To me, a late Beethoven string quartet, or watching my girlfriend get out of the shower, would be just as beautiful whether or not a deity exists...
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Good points! I do realize that my take on Creation is "My Take". I do base my theory on a solid premise, as anything on Earth that contains human touch, the imprint of a signature is there, regardless if they sign the picture or not. I see Creation as a planned system, with balance, purpose, and destiny. These all point to a responsible Being (IMO).

I also don't believe in Evolution, as certain systems within Nature could not evolve without destroying the life they are trying to sustain. For instance, Blood Clotting: this system is an intricate maneuver within the Human Body that can bear little, to no leeway. Proteins and other components must interact in direct unison in order to prevent a person from bleeding to death. Evolution has also left us with no genuine, scientific proof, other than a host of presumptions and maybes.

Now, people can say the same thing about me, as I live by a host of presumptions and maybes because I have never been to breakfast with God, but I still feel that my honesty about Creation leads me to a Greater Power because I CAN prove that systems are marked by Human Creation (Car/Houses/Clothes/Computers/Electricity/Paintings: all have a human signature)

Now, about watching your beautiful girlfriend/wife get out of the shower: why do enjoy that? Where did enjoyment come from, and who invented love? Why does music reflect peace, giving you satisfaction by the combination and harmony of certain tones played by specific instruments?
 
Guitar Man said:
I also don't believe in Evolution, as certain systems within Nature could not evolve without destroying the life they are trying to sustain. For instance, Blood Clotting: this system is an intricate maneuver within the Human Body that can bear little, to no leeway. Proteins and other components must interact in direct unison in order to prevent a person from bleeding to death. Evolution has also left us with no genuine, scientific proof, other than a host of presumptions and maybes.
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It certainly doesn't matter if you believe in evolution, because evolution believes in you...

Seriously, the blood clotting cascade? I guess you read Micheal Behe's book without actually looking at the evidence for yourself. This of course, in addition to being an argument from ignorance (I can't understand how x could evolve naturally, therefore evolution is false), it has been discredited many times, including at the famous Dover trial where Behe was on the witness stand, testifying that he has not read much of the current biochemical literature where in fact, there are good examples of how these various functions could emerge.
These types of negative arguments against evolution are basically placeholders as to an area that someone might want to study, they are not effective counter-arguments to the fact of evolution, something that we can directly observe.
 
Mister Sister said:
Speak for yourself, and I mean this in the nicest possible way. "You" can't have it both ways, doesn't mean that "I" cannot.





Maybe i should have stated it this way.You cant have it both ways when it comes to finding any rational logic behind answers.One can construe a meaning to whatever they want,ill leave it that.
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Guitar Man said:
Good points! I do realize that my take on Creation is "My Take". I do base my theory on a solid premise, as anything on Earth that contains human touch, the imprint of a signature is there, regardless if they sign the picture or not. I see Creation as a planned system, with balance, purpose, and destiny. These all point to a responsible Being (IMO).
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Your take on this matter isn't actually a theory, as theory is the highest form of scientific knowledge and not merely a guess as laypeople misuse the term. Your point here was my point, that since we are designers/creators of the human made objects on our planet, we tend to think that nature and the cosmos must also have a designer. No empirical evidence points to this...
I also don't believe in Evolution, as certain systems within Nature could not evolve without destroying the life they are trying to sustain. For instance, Blood Clotting: this system is an intricate maneuver within the Human Body that can bear little, to no leeway. Proteins and other components must interact in direct unison in order to prevent a person from bleeding to death. Evolution has also left us with no genuine, scientific proof, other than a host of presumptions and maybes.
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MP alluded to this well; my guess is that you have read creationist literature (probably Behe's) for which there is no scientific backing. I'm also guessing that you have never seriously studied evolution by natural selection. Evolution has been very generous with it's evidence: we have an amazing amount of fossil records of species evolving, which is incredible because the situations that yield these fossils happen very infrequently. But even if we had NO fossils, the dna evidence is undeniable. Evolution is supported by many diverse scientific fields, the process is as much a fact as any other knowledge we possess. IMO, it's a little strange to say you don't believe in something you haven't studied and clearly don't understand...
Now, people can say the same thing about me, as I live by a host of presumptions and maybes because I have never been to breakfast with God, but I still feel that my honesty about Creation leads me to a Greater Power because I CAN prove that systems are marked by Human Creation (Car/Houses/Clothes/Computers/Electricity/Paintings: all have a human signature)
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See my first paragraph in this post...
Now, about watching your beautiful girlfriend/wife get out of the shower: why do enjoy that? Where did enjoyment come from, and who invented love? Why does music reflect peace, giving you satisfaction by the combination and harmony of certain tones played by specific instruments?
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I think it would help your thinking process if you familiarized yourself with basic logical fallacies, you've demonstrated two here; The Argument from Ignorance and now begging the question. I find my girlfriend's body beautiful because I was evolved to do so (so we would have sex and pass on our genes, the only intrinsic purpose for life). Who invented love is begging the question that love was invented. Love is a neuro-chemical process, a combination of specific neural networks firing in specific ways coupled with the presence of many neuro-transmitters (serotonin, dopamine, etc.). Your question of why music induces peace and beauty is an excellent one. I do not know the answer, but positing a deity as the answer doesn't answer the question. It is a conversation stopper, and hinders the process of actually gaining that knowledge...
 
I religiously smoke a bowl every morning, noon and night. So doubt it. Sometimes the stuff in my bowl, sends me to heaven. So nope nothing in the world makes me think I am sinning for using. Unless of course I stole it beforehand.
 
mindphuk said:
It certainly doesn't matter if you believe in evolution, because evolution believes in you...

Seriously, the blood clotting cascade? I guess you read Micheal Behe's book without actually looking at the evidence for yourself. This of course, in addition to being an argument from ignorance (I can't understand how x could evolve naturally, therefore evolution is false), it has been discredited many times, including at the famous Dover trial where Behe was on the witness stand, testifying that he has not read much of the current biochemical literature where in fact, there are good examples of how these various functions could emerge.
These types of negative arguments against evolution are basically placeholders as to an area that someone might want to study, they are not effective counter-arguments to the fact of evolution, something that we can directly observe.
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Fuck, you guys talk down at me like you're some kind of fucking god. Without looking at the evidence myself?? WTF is that supposed to mean? I've cut myself numerous times, and I've watched people almost bleed to death. Blood clotting is simply your body's defense system to save your life in the event of a tragic accident or injury. The study I did on this pointed out HOW this system works, and HOW this system requires a COMPLETE network of functions in order for your blood to stop flowing. Remove 1 of these functions and you will DIE without assistance from someone who happens to be there when blood is gushing from your wound! Now, you tell me this is wrong.

Evolution believes in me??? I seriously have no idea what you're talking about. Evolution is a THEORY that CANNOT be proven. You may have come from a fucking monkey, but I don't believe that horseshit! There is still the Missing Link, and half man, half monkey fossils are 0, NADA!

You tell me how these "Functions" could emerge. You will wind up on an endless trail of maybes, and you will end up asking me to have FAITH in your idea that has no real PROOF. Well, I don't put my Faith in things that remove me from accountability, which is the main reason for Atheism.

You see, the complicated is made more complicated by Science that is surrounded by myth, and the Evolution of MAN is a myth. It's a fantasy.

My argument that God is revealed through Nature is far more proven, as Intelligent Design is in every crack and corner of this Earth.
 
Guitar Man said:
Evolution is a THEORY that CANNOT be proven. You may have come from a fucking monkey, but I don't believe that horseshit! There is still the Missing Link, and half man, half monkey fossils are 0, NADA!
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It takes about 15 minutes of studying evolution before you realize that the theory does not say humans came from monkeys, nor does it predict a half man half monkey fossil. Rather than arguing against evolution, you are arguing against some misunderstood concept in your head which you call evolution.

Humans and great apes had a common ancestor about 5 million years ago. Humans and monkeys had a common ancestor about 50 million years ago. Nowhere, except in the most illiterate anti-evolution literature, will you find a claim that humans evolved from monkeys.

[video=youtube;4238NN8HMgQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4238NN8HMgQ[/video]
 
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