Is Fox Farm Organic?

Hahaha what a thread jack. 2-3 pages?? You two's bitch fight managed to make you both look like clowns.

420, your grow is looking good mayne, especially for just starting out! Hope they get done soon so you can smoke a grip and chillax.

Ccoastal I'm sure you are a pro grower and what-not, but this forum is for learning, not lording your wealth of knowledge over us pion growers.

To the OP, I feel like Fox Farms' is kinda like shopping at Whole Foods, yeah the food has some more "organic-ness" than shopping at say, Wally World, but really you shop there hoping someone you know sees you so you can solidify your hipster status. If anyone really gives a fuck about being organic then there is one answer- Make it yourself.

This all coming from a fox farms user...
Swisher
 

Sincerely420

New Member
Hahaha what a thread jack. 2-3 pages?? You two's bitch fight managed to make you both look like clowns.

420, your grow is looking good mayne, especially for just starting out! Hope they get done soon so you can smoke a grip and chillax.

Ccoastal I'm sure you are a pro grower and what-not, but this forum is for learning, not lording your wealth of knowledge over us pion growers.

To the OP, I feel like Fox Farms' is kinda like shopping at Whole Foods, yeah the food has some more "organic-ness" than shopping at say, Wally World, but really you shop there hoping someone you know sees you so you can solidify your hipster status. If anyone really gives a fuck about being organic then there is one answer- Make it yourself.

This all coming from a fox farms user...
Swisher
Your perception was that we looked like clowns during our heated discussion...That's cool. Who cares what you think? I don't know you. You don't know me.
I smoke "a grip" all the time, so I stay chill. What you read was me being chill. But you don't know me, so you don't know that...

I know my plants are good bra, but thanks for pointing that out anyways.
We're all entitled to our own opinions....like this is mine, and the above is yours...

I could care less whether or not of FFOF is really organic or not....
Nobody on this website are making bags of it so I'm not pressed.

I just know it works for growing weed and that company claims its organic...
Who would I be to argue that it's not Organic?
Either a disguntled gardener or an employee working for the competition lol.
And I'm neither...I'm just using it to grow.

And I stay chill. It's who I am
 
Your perception was that we looked like clowns during our heated discussion...That's cool. Who cares what you think? I don't know you. You don't know me.
I smoke "a grip" all the time, so I stay chill. What you read was me being chill. But you don't know me, so you don't know that...

I know my plants are good bra, but thanks for pointing that out anyways.
We're all entitled to our own opinions....like this is mine, and the above is yours...

I could care less whether or not of FFOF is really organic or not....
Nobody on this website are making bags of it so I'm not pressed.

I just know it works for growing weed and that company claims its organic...
Who would I be to argue that it's not Organic?
Either a disguntled gardener or an employee working for the competition lol.
And I'm neither...I'm just using it to grow.

And I stay chill. It's who I am
What about that post was chill? If you are such a calm person it must be from all the online venting. And congrats, you managed to thread jack further by talking about yourself.

As for it not mattering whether Fox Farms is organic or not is just naive. The whole point of an organic grow is to cultivate the microherd of bacteria, fungi, and microbes that break down nutrients in soil and make them available to your beloved cannabis plant. If any element of your grow (soil, nutes, etc.) is chemical based, (which many FF products are- Tiger Bloom, Grow Big etc.) then you effectively kill the microherd, making your "organic" grow just another mediocre chemical grow. But again as I said in my last post I am a FF user and love it. But of course you smoke grips so you might not have had time to read or remember my post.

So instead of indulging us all in more of your personal biases and opinions, you should spend a little time reading and adding some knowledge to that big ol' noggin of yours.
 

Sincerely420

New Member
What about that post was chill? If you are such a calm person it must be from all the online venting. And congrats, you managed to thread jack further by talking about yourself.

As for it not mattering whether Fox Farms is organic or not is just naive. The whole point of an organic grow is to cultivate the microherd of bacteria, fungi, and microbes that break down nutrients in soil and make them available to your beloved cannabis plant. If any element of your grow (soil, nutes, etc.) is chemical based, (which many FF products are- Tiger Bloom, Grow Big etc.) then you effectively kill the microherd, making your "organic" grow just another mediocre chemical grow. But again as I said in my last post I am a FF user and love it. But of course you smoke grips so you might not have had time to read or remember my post.

So instead of indulging us all in more of your personal biases and opinions, you should spend a little time reading and adding some knowledge to that big ol' noggin of yours.

Yeahh? Well thanks for the congrats and nothing else. I already know the purpose of an organic grow, and I've already repeated what you just said maybe 10 times here at RIU. Troll my posts and find them to convince yourself of whatever u need.

I really don't care if FFOF is organic or not. Paying attention to my posts you would've gotten that. "I just know it says organic on the bag". <-pretty sure this was my exact statement if not close enough....my argument has always been that it works and pot loves it.

And I'm speaking based on my current results...not any personal biases or opinions.
It's not my opinion that cannabis loves FFOF. My plants show that its FACT.
And my personal biases have nothing to do with you or anyone else...that's why their personal.
Your just some cyber guy to me. Maybe rethink using the word personal as nothing's personal here.

I'm growing in my own soil mix....FFOF is just its base.

& what do I give a fuck about FFOF? I don't get paid when ppl buy it...I don't work for FFOF. The company doesn't concern me.
And my grow is totally Organic? I dont use bottled nutes to feed my plants, I use AACTs to feed my soil ecosystem.
Everything is in the soil before I put the plant in it....Truly organic.

And all I do is read and add knowledge to my "big ol noggin". If u knew me, you'd know that..but......

Did I mention yet that you don't know me??
We were done with our "slightly heated" debate when you had to chime in and acknowledge...
You shoulda just minded your business and answer the question at the top of the page.

is Fox Farm organic?

My answer is it says on the bag the FFOF is organic and pot loves it.
My plants speak for them selves.

Fact and Fact guy.

This ain't about how your feel about mine and coastals discussion...No one asked for ur input regarding our convo and I'm sure like myself, Coastal don't give one in refards what your talking about....

Is Fox Farm Organic? That's the only thing someone asked here...Not how u feel about me...
You said your a user and you love it..that's ALL that matters..


chea.....and my "noggin" is ONLY gettin BIGGER.
I DO NOT dumb it down.
 

smellzlikeskunkyum

Well-Known Member
Fox Farm while decent and popular is NOT organic. NOT. i dont care what anyone tries to tell me.

go buy some roots organics nutes by aurora and compare them to the fox farm nutes. chemicals vs real stinky brown organics.

Fox farm offers bagged nutes that may be a bit less processed but im not sure on that one.

EDIT: by the way i can take a big black marker and write ORGANIC on all of my produce, and that makes it only as organic as fox farms nutes are. they simply say organic on the bottle. that doesnt mean ANYTHING AT ALL.

FFOF and other FF products can be VERY good. they just arent 100% organic. especially the liquid nutes.
 

billy4479

Moderator
ammonium nitrate is not organic its usally the first ingredient of a non organic fertilizer ...also chelate like EDTA I don't think are organic ....
 

Sincerely420

New Member
Ok lol...I'm speaking on behalf of Fox Farm Ocean Forest. I don't use ANY bottled nutriets!
Only organic ferts that become useable and they're broken down.
My plants get they're N that natural way. Not the water soluble way.

So...I'm not speaking on Fox Farm in general, I'm speaking on Fox Farm Ocean Forest Organic Potting Soil. Can't speak for anything else Fox Farm as I don't use it!
 

Sincerely420

New Member
Fox Farm while decent and popular is NOT organic. NOT. i dont care what anyone tries to tell me.

go buy some roots organics nutes by aurora and compare them to the fox farm nutes. chemicals vs real stinky brown organics.

Fox farm offers bagged nutes that may be a bit less processed but im not sure on that one.

EDIT: by the way i can take a big black marker and write ORGANIC on all of my produce, and that makes it only as organic as fox farms nutes are. they simply say organic on the bottle. that doesnt mean ANYTHING AT ALL.

FFOF and other FF products can be VERY good. they just arent 100% organic. especially the liquid nutes.

Im only referring to the Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil bro. Not their bagged or bottled nutes..
I use organic fertilizers for nutes.
 

smellzlikeskunkyum

Well-Known Member
sry sincerly420 i was more or less responding to the thread as a whole not your recent posts.

there is a post on the first page that says it best. the soils and the bagged ferts are mostly organic. people try to say big bloom is too i geuss.

im still very suspicious of fox farm being truely organic or close to it, even with their bagged soils. i geuss someone would have to test it to get the truth honestly.
i do know FFOF will grow some decent plants as long as you hit it with a TON of perlite. same with happy frog, i usually mix the two.
but i use roots organics original mix and it blows FF outta the water imo.
ive been talking it up around MI to friends and all, now all of a sudden its getting more popular too. one friend has a huge setup, and he finally gave up on that STUPID promix, which i hate. and now he is doing SOOO much better. he just bought 5 gal nutes of FF tho, so i geuss hes gonna keep using those, lol.
 

Sincerely420

New Member
sry sincerly420 i was more or less responding to the thread as a whole not your recent posts.

there is a post on the first page that says it best. the soils and the bagged ferts are mostly organic. people try to say big bloom is too i geuss.

im still very suspicious of fox farm being truely organic or close to it, even with their bagged soils. i geuss someone would have to test it to get the truth honestly.
i do know FFOF will grow some decent plants as long as you hit it with a TON of perlite. same with happy frog, i usually mix the two.
but i use roots organics original mix and it blows FF outta the water imo.
ive been talking it up around MI to friends and all, now all of a sudden its getting more popular too. one friend has a huge setup, and he finally gave up on that STUPID promix, which i hate. and now he is doing SOOO much better. he just bought 5 gal nutes of FF tho, so i geuss hes gonna keep using those, lol.
Haha damn! Sucks about ya buddy haha.

But yeah man, Im not arguing that their bagged ferts and bottled nutrients are organic..just that the soil is.
And to what degree I don't have time to argue about lol! I'm going with what it sayind on the bag..That its a "natural and organic potting soil".
Imagine me arguing with the company that their soil is not organic, but yet the they "claim" its organic on the bag...
 

hooked.on.ponics

Well-Known Member
ammonium nitrate is not organic its usally the first ingredient of a non organic fertilizer.
This isn't actually true, but it all stems around the definition of "organic" you want to use. Ammonium nitrate is a naturally occurring chemical that is formed by a chemical reaction between ammonia and nitric acid. Both of which are naturally occurring substances in soil. The buzzword "organic" is commonly used to describe a process of making things without using "magical science" or whatever mumbo-jumbo you're concerned might make one chemical structure different than an absolutely identical chemical structure made by a more natural process.

The fact is that every single ammonium nitrate molecule is exactly the same as every other ammonium nitrate molecule: NH3NO3- is NH3NO3- is NH3NO3-. Building it by "non-organic" methods doesn't make any difference.

But, since it has been created long before mankind had any clue there were atoms to make things with let alone any notion what to name those atoms, and made naturally right in the soil under our feet every day, it's safe to say that ammonium nitrate can be entirely "organic", natural, or whatever buzzword you want to call it. Nature's cookbook. It's not always, and often in fertilizers it's the evil-twin of man-made ammonium nitrate, but since it's not so much evil as just absolutely friggin' identical, it's less about the source and more about the use.

Too much, too little, whatever. That's the issue.

What is a better soil to buy? I am in socal so my options are limited to here.
Personally I say screw soil, go with Sunshine mix #4 (soil-less "soil") and run hydro nutes. Less worry about how to feed since you know there's zip in the "soil", you know just how much your plants are getting because you're measuring it out yourself. Just my 2c.

So is FFOF organic?
Well......................It says so on the bag.
Advanced Nutrients Jungle Juice has a picture of a monkey on the bottle. But I'm pretty sure they don't squeeze any liquids out of monkeys to make it. (Not saying that's what they're claiming, I'm just saying that labels don't necessarily reflect contents for SO MANY reasons. Not the least of which is that the government literally forbids companies to include certain ingredients on the ingredients list.)

Imagine me arguing with the company that their soil is not organic, but yet the they "claim" its organic on the bag...
Who else...

Oh, how about Dutch Masters? They not too long ago swore up and down that their Phosphoload didn't have any PGRs in it. But wait, it does! Paclobutrazol and a buttload of it. That stuff is believed to cause cancer and they were happy not only for us to put it in our plants and then consume it, but to lie about it right to our faces.

You want to be a Trusty McRube and believe everything the nice company says on their bag of dirt, that's fine. Just don't make out like that's some kind of rational decision the rest of us are silly to avoid. Companies lie. Bigger companies lie bigger. Maybe there's some Honest Abe's out there but it's not reasonable, it's not rational to think that those companies are in the majority. Or even a size-able minority. Honesty is rare, particularly where money is concerned.

I'd love to be able to go through life thinking only the best of people. Life has taught me different. I see people like that and I think "wow, the world must look really nice through their eyes!" and then a moment later I think, "at least until something happens to wake them up."

Companies frequently, deliberately break laws because it's cheaper to pay the fines than to follow the rules. You really think it's impossible to make more money selling an "organic" product than the fine for lying about it - when/if you ever get caught - costs? Or more realistically, how about the fact that there's at least a dozen different "organic" licensing groups. Everyone's heard of OMRI, but they're not the only ones that can legitimize a claim to make something organic. Is every single person at every single one of those companies of unimpeachable integrity? Or do you think that maybe - just maybe - an inspector or two might have a sick family member or financial crisis that makes them weak enough to fudge a few numbers in exchange for some hospital bill money? Some of the agencies are just plain lax. OMRI is okay on standards, but not the best, while others are practically like, "Oh, you stir with a wooden spoon? That's totally organic! Here's your certificate!"

Wake up.

I'm not saying there's nothing worth trusting. I'm just saying don't blindly trust. "They print it right on the bag, they couldn't do that if it wasn't true, right?" is not an eyes-open perspective. "Probably true" is more like it. It's probably true. Possibly untrue. Each person has to find their own peace with what they believe is "likely enough to be true" or "likely enough to be untrue" and move on that. But don't just assume that if it's written down, it's true.

Hell, in that case I'm a French model.
 

Sincerely420

New Member
Damn lol u must have just blown something nice!
Thanks for the response and the life lessons hahah :joint:

& I'm not worried about Fox Farm Ocean Forest being a bag of chemicals tho...
I don't use bottled nutes...I make my own from organic amendments!
& So far I'm as content as I can be using it!
 

Nullis

Moderator
This isn't actually true, but it all stems around the definition of "organic" you want to use. Ammonium nitrate is a naturally occurring chemical that is formed by a chemical reaction between ammonia and nitric acid. Both of which are naturally occurring substances in soil. The buzzword "organic" is commonly used to describe a process of making things without using "magical science" or whatever mumbo-jumbo you're concerned might make one chemical structure different than an absolutely identical chemical structure made by a more natural process.
LOL. That is all I really have to read to be able to tell that you really don't get it. Don't be ashamed though, most people start off like you, this is just how we're being raised after the "Green" Revolution.

It has nothing to do with the fact that ions are ions and plants only absorb nitrogen as either ammonium (NH4+) or nitrate (NO3-), phosphorous as phosphate, potassium as K+, etc. It isn't entirely about carbon, either. Organic in this case has to do with something being related to or derived from living matter. Maybe you never heard, but nobody ever had to pour ammonium nitrate on an old growth forest. This is mostly because soil is alive, and the microbes and other organisms are cycling organic matter, nourishing the plants. This is, essentially, both why the Earth isn't covered in death, shit and what allows plants to acquire nutrients for growth (energy they get from the sun).

There are several things you have to understand about how soil actually works (in terms of chemistry and cation exchange), how plants work (in terms of roots behavior\nutrient assimilation), and what microbes\organism living in soil do for the plant in order to be able to understand and appreciate organics or gardening with the soil food web. I've written endlessly about this kind of stuff here in organics. Practically all organisms that live in soil are aiding in this cycle in some way. Plant roots produce and excrete substances through their roots (exudates) to attract micro-organisms to the rhizosphere. The rhizosphere, or root-zone is the area immediately surrounding the roots and this is where nutrients are absorbed. Microbes living in the rhizosphere are like little packets of fertilizer; each organism is producing a certain degree of 'waste' in the form of plant usable nutrients. The microbes are turning organic matter into usable nutrients. Most of the elements in soil, including those that plants need, are locked up in complex compounds which plants cannot absorb. Phosphorous is an example of a heavily bound element, and even high P fertilizer applied to soil will quickly (A.) Leach or (B) Precipitate from the soil solution or become locked up in organic matter. In neither case is that phosphorous plant available. The microflora and in particular symbiotic fungi are [ultimately] responsible for a good deal of the phosphorous acquisition by plants.


The organisms do more than just feed plants, though. Microbes are responsible for regulating the pH in the rhizosphere to enhance nutrient assimilation. Bacteria are protected by an alkaline bio-slime that they produce. Fungi produce organic acids and enzymes to digest minerals and organic materials. Beneficial microbes are in direct competition for resources against the comparatively rarer pathogenic or "bad" organisms. Some protect through direct means: some make their own antibiotics (e.g. Trichoderma, Streptomyces) and\or induce host-plant resistance. They also produce a plethora of other compounds including plant growth regulators that enhance root\plant growth. Mycorrhizal fungi are in symbiotic interaction with the plants, exchanging water and nutrients (such as phosphorous) for carbohydrates. The thread-like fungal hyphae are sleeker, they can colonize an entire substrate over vast distances and go places where plant roots cannot. Not to mention what these organisms do for the soil structure.

The problem with the chemical fertilizers is that they do absolutely nothing for soil quality. They use high NPK chemical fertilizers and the majority of it isn't even taken up by the plants; it washes right by them and into the water table. They decimate mycelium, microbes and other beneficial organisms such as earthworms (which do amazing things for soil). Due to this the soil quality gets worse over time and their solution is to apply more fertilizer. Synthetic pesticides are typically not narrow-spectrum, and tend to have wide-ranging and unforeseen effects on ecosystems. Most bugs are good, and that is a fact. Good bugs such as spiders, lady bugs, praying mantises, predator mites, etc. eat all kinds of pests, but they too are vulnerable. Insects and bees especially are absolutely essential to plant pollination; essential to your ability to buy produce and flowers! Colony collapse disorder is no joke and synthetic pesticides are a likely significant contributing factor.

I am not against hydroponics indoors with synthetic\chemical nutrients, that is different. I just love soil and also prefer it indoors as well.
 

Sincerely420

New Member
With your permission sir, can I quote you and post your words elsewhere?
I like to post everything I find helpful and relevant in one spot so that I can go back to it.
And personally I doubt all of that could have been stated anymore concisely :joint:

Thx
 

Nullis

Moderator
Companies frequently, deliberately break laws because it's cheaper to pay the fines than to follow the rules. You really think it's impossible to make more money selling an "organic" product than the fine for lying about it - when/if you ever get caught - costs? Or more realistically, how about the fact that there's at least a dozen different "organic" licensing groups. Everyone's heard of OMRI, but they're not the only ones that can legitimize a claim to make something organic. Is every single person at every single one of those companies of unimpeachable integrity? Or do you think that maybe - just maybe - an inspector or two might have a sick family member or financial crisis that makes them weak enough to fudge a few numbers in exchange for some hospital bill money? Some of the agencies are just plain lax. OMRI is okay on standards, but not the best, while others are practically like, "Oh, you stir with a wooden spoon? That's totally organic! Here's your certificate!"

Wake up.

I'm not saying there's nothing worth trusting. I'm just saying don't blindly trust. "They print it right on the bag, they couldn't do that if it wasn't true, right?" is not an eyes-open perspective. "Probably true" is more like it. It's probably true. Possibly untrue. Each person has to find their own peace with what they believe is "likely enough to be true" or "likely enough to be untrue" and move on that. But don't just assume that if it's written down, it's true.
head_shake_zps63943f20.gif [HR][/HR]
By the way there are actually some 56 domestic certification agencies that the USDA accredits, including Quality Assurance International and California Certified Organic Farmers. Some of these organizations have been around since 1973, such as CCOF, and are more locally-oriented. Most of them are non-profits such as the OMRI, while others are for-profit such as QAI, although it is owned by NSF International (which is a non-profit) and does standards certification globally. These organizations play a role similar to how Underwriters Laboratories certifies products. The NSF does standards development and product certification. For example "Gluten-free", "non-GMO" and "Kosher" are examples of other food product certifications.

In the United States, standards for organic farming\agriculture were established by the USDA after the introduction of The Organic Food Production Act of 1990. The NOP standards can apply to basically anything food-related, and even health\beauty products. The accredited agencies certify to the NOP standards which include additional regulations pertaining to the growing, processing, storing and packaging of products; which includes farming inputs. As with most kinds of legislation those with the power and money can lobby for laws more favorable to them (including factory farmers). But for the most part, that is the point of the program, to protect the integrity of the words "organic" on products and especially terms like "100% organic" or the USDA organic seal. You are naive to believe that "it is cheaper just to pay the fines" or that business could not be held accountable for misrepresentation in one way or another. Nevertheless things like bureaucracy and politics shouldn't denigrate organics or delude its meaning.

The meaning, again, which isn't entirely about chemical origins and not necessarily in the sense that many seem to think. In the most basic sense in means growing or raising naturally. It has just as much to do with sustainability; growing with the soil food web. The USDA defines it as "an ecological production management system that promotes and enhances biodiversity, biological cycles, and soil biological activity. It is based on minimal use of off-farm inputs and on management practices that restore, maintain, or enhance ecological harmony."

Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 is also organic and it comes inoculated with mycorrhizae. You don't exactly need a seal from an independent review board, you can usually tell by the ingredients whether a potting mix\plant food is all natural or suitable for organic growing.
 
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