It's A Fuct World

LivingCanvas · Aug 29, 2012

Hey Al, not a big poster, but I read as much on forums as I can. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!!

Couple questions for you if I may:

What I'm considering doing would involve a flood drain SoG style op.
My questions are:

4 Mother Plants/4 Strains good for SoG Style
4 Clones from each Mother every 2 weeks
16 clones per 4x4 tray staggered at 2 week intervals.

Do you think it would be successful to run plants in
2gal smart pots filled with hydroton/plant for the flowering cycle with 8/16 Lucas. (Been using that in DWC previously)
I am a fan of keeping nutes simple, and systems simple (until I get room to go mad scientist with a HP Aero setup I've been collecting parts for.)

I figured hydroton, to be washed/sterilized/reused after each harvest to save on repurchasing media.
The smart pots I've used with organics, and I like the air pruning/the ability to water via leaching with the ebb/flow system.

I'd either be cloning in rockwool (Studying into that recently/looked at your guide/bout to make a 2nd test run) or my preferred method
via LPAero.

Also (probably strain dependent) do you think reasonably well rooted clones can take 8/16 Lucas (~1250ppm with R/O)
straight out of the cloner and into flower? (I'm hesitant, and fed my clones on 1/3 strength in DWC after roots were good/Don't wanna burn the hell out of em.)

Thanks!

tenthirty · Aug 29, 2012

On a 4x4 tray, with less than say, 10 days veg. I would be sport'in about 36 to 40 plants per table.
With 16 I think that you are going to want some considerable veg time to fill in the canopy.
What is your definition of successful?
Also reaching over a 4' table is a bit of a stretch for me.

Al B. Fuct · Aug 30, 2012

First, thanks to Admin for fixing the images on my '2 weeks' & cloning threads. Much appreciated. Y old image gallery isn't back yet and may not be recoverable, but I will continue to hope.

Raphael Mechoulam said:
Hey, Al! I cannot for the life of me find how to alter or delete those posts, so please do so at your discretion. Thanks again for everything. Subbed for more great info

Edit: ROTFLMAO! Just read your edits, hilarious...

menominah.

Taurich said:
Thanks

I have some more questions regarding your other answers but this one is a bit more urgent.
I've asked my hydro shop about STG, they'd never heard of it so I requested if they could order it in. They call me back and say they're having some trouble shipping it in from the US, and asked if I knew anyone in Aus that stocked it.
So I'm wondering now if you could maybe PM me the number of your hydro shop, so I can give it to the girl at my hydro shop, so they can get me some STG shipped down

Thanks ^^

If you're in Aus, I'd suggest you use Fytocell. Contact Accent Hydroponics. They also may be stocking STG now. Accent does wholesale so your local shop probably already deals with them.

chusett said:
So Al.. you would say there are NO organic nutes that you like.

Correct.

You simply do inorganic?

Yep.

What would you recommend, is canna expensive?

I would recommend Canna- and it IS expensive. However, you do get what you pay for. Canna has given me very consistent results for the last 10 years. And if the Canna rep is reading this, I'll be quite happy to accept a sponsorship, thankyouverymuch.

Ive used GH.. and Humboldt synthetic nutes and hated em.

GH makes a good inorganic product. As long as you use it per mfrs instructions & not "Lucas formula" it's pretty reliable. I prefer 2-part nutrients as they are very simple to use. I still prefer Canna.

And h202 commercial grade 50 % i couldnt even find.. (in the past) can you advise where to find?

Accent has 50% grade H2O2 in 25kg carboy jugs.

matatan said:
how much veg time would you recommend for 9 plants on a 3x3table under a 600? im thinking about 10days, topped twice... trellis at day 10 of flower(hybrid,8-9week)
what you think Al?

If you want to grow plants in a SoG system, zero veg time. Clones go straight into flowering light cycle. No topping. Ever. Remove lower branching that gets more than about 1 inch long.

Justaman519 said:
Hey brother!
You were helping someone out a page or so back, and you mentioned the proper placement of the lamp on a rectangular table. Are you saying that the long part of the bulb (socket end) should cross the narrow part of the table? Sorry about the misunderstanding. Thanks man, take care!

The bulb should be perpendicular not parallel to the long side of the table?

Yep:

View attachment 2314240

Shwagbag said:
Depending on location, if you're in US the easiest way to get higher concentrations of H2O2 is at natural health food stores.

Yep.

LivingCanvas said:
Hey Al, not a big poster, but I read as much on forums as I can. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!!

No worries.

Couple questions for you if I may:

What I'm considering doing would involve a flood drain SoG style op.
My questions are:

4 Mother Plants/4 Strains good for SoG Style
4 Clones from each Mother every 2 weeks
16 clones per 4x4 tray staggered at 2 week intervals.

OK

Do you think it would be successful to run plants in
2gal smart pots filled with hydroton/plant for the flowering cycle with 8/16 Lucas. (Been using that in DWC previously)
I am a fan of keeping nutes simple, and systems simple (until I get room to go mad scientist with a HP Aero setup I've been collecting parts for.)

I figured hydroton, to be washed/sterilized/reused after each harvest to save on repurchasing media.
The smart pots I've used with organics, and I like the air pruning/the ability to water via leaching with the ebb/flow system.

I think the term you're looking for is [water via] 'wicking.'

If it's simple you want, you should run flood systems and 2-part nutes. I am not a fan of Lucas. And I completely hate hydroton because it's hard to dispose of and nearly impossible to properly clean for re-use. I don't totally hate 'smart pots' but they're hard to clean and don't lend themselves to high levels of root oxygenation. Flood systems are dead easy and permit better application of aerated nutes to the rootzones. Even if you were to put an airstone in the res in a smart pot, the nutes would tend to lose dissolved O2 as it is wicked up to the rootzone.

I'd either be cloning in rockwool (Studying into that recently/looked at your guide/bout to make a 2nd test run) or my preferred method
via LPAero.

If you can make aero work reliably, go for it. Unsupported roots can be easy to damage, so keep that in mind.

Also (probably strain dependent) do you think reasonably well rooted clones can take 8/16 Lucas (~1250ppm with R/O)

I'd go 1.5-1.6 EC (roughly 1000ppm on the Bluelab Truncheon). I wouldn't use Lucas. Further, I wouldn't use RO unless you're on a well/bore with high salinity or sulfur content. Municipal tapwater is just fine without RO.

straight out of the cloner and into flower? (I'm hesitant, and fed my clones on 1/3 strength in DWC after roots were good/Don't wanna burn the hell out of em.)

Yep, clones go straight into flower in SoG.

tenthirty said:
On a 4x4 tray, with less than say, 10 days veg. I would be sport'in about 36 to 40 plants per table.
With 16 I think that you are going to want some considerable veg time to fill in the canopy.
What is your definition of successful?
Also reaching over a 4' table is a bit of a stretch for me.

You're not sportin' until you have painted little racing stripes on each plant. Get busy.

No veg time in SoG. Fill your lighted space with individual small plants, pruned as I have stated above.

Successful in a SoG is around .5-.75oz/plant under HPS providing about 50W/sq ft. I'd use a 1000HPS over your 4x4 tray & pack it with about 40 plants.

chusett · Aug 30, 2012

THANKS Al !!!

Here i light you up :bigjoint:

tenthirty · Aug 30, 2012

You're not sportin' until you have painted little racing stripes on each plant. Get busy.

No veg time in SoG. Fill your lighted space with individual small plants, pruned as I have stated above.

Successful in a SoG is around .5-.75oz/plant under HPS providing about 50W/sq ft. I'd use a 1000HPS over your 4x4 tray & pack it with about 40 plants.

Al,

What I am finding in my situation, is that I'm having to clone for 10 or so days, then put the babies in 4" rockwool cubes and let them root for another 5 or 10 day to get an acceptable root mass by the time they go to flower.
So you could call it a preveg, or veg, do you have any trick to get the roots to grow bigger, better, faster on the clones?
The section of time from rooting to the start of flower is really critical for root development IMHO.

By the way....SOG, Sweet tooth #4/Alien-Dawg rotation, 4" rockwool blocks, and monthy harvests.

And I'm trying to teach them to grow racing stripes!!

Petch · Sep 1, 2012

Hi Al,

Quick question. I realise now that for successful clones I need mother plants, as you advised me in an earlier post. I need 10-12 clones every 4 weeks, how many mother plants do I really need? less the better for me. I have a feeling you're going to say 4?

I do deviate away from your method in areas, but follow the basics. I like to grow different strains, which makes things a less predictable than growing the same strain. Do you have a conclusion yet on Sure To Grow? or still to early to properly evaluate?

again cheers for your help.

ps. Unrelated question, what largers do aussie's drink? Here in England we assume you drink Castlemaine XXXX or Fosters as both are Aussie beers, Castlemain is goat's piss, weak shit beer, stopped being sold here in 2009 you can keep it, and fosters, although heavily marketed as an Aussie beer, with the sterotypical Aussie round a bbq.... throw another shrimp on the barby etc... is brewed in bloody Scotland, which is about as Australian as...er...rain. Surely you have a better selection than that, and do you have any English beers? As you may have gathered I like my beer almost as much as weed.

LivingCanvas · Sep 1, 2012

Thanks Al! Several good points!

I'm very n00b when it comes to RockWool in flood tables. I haven't the first idea about timing the flood cycles.
I've done flood with hydroton, but it dries much more quickly.

In rockwool, will larger plants (or even SoG popsicles) pull enough water to dry out the slabs
if your flood cycle fully saturates them?

Or is the point, to flood only long enough to thoroughly wet the RW, but not fully saturate?
(So there is still pockets of air for oxygen transfer)

I assume that you find it easier to dispose of rockwool over soil. And maybe I'm too high...
Right now I'm wondering if I saw you grow in RW or coco... DOH!

Al B. Fuct · Sep 3, 2012

Petch said:
Hi Al,

Quick question. I realise now that for successful clones I need mother plants, as you advised me in an earlier post. I need 10-12 clones every 4 weeks, how many mother plants do I really need? less the better for me. I have a feeling you're going to say 4?

Yes, 4, but you will find that you need to prune the mother plants every 2 weeks. Since you're only doing clones every 4 weeks, every other batch of cuttings from pruning will go to compost.

I do deviate away from your method in areas, but follow the basics. I like to grow different strains, which makes things a less predictable than growing the same strain. Do you have a conclusion yet on Sure To Grow? or still to early to properly evaluate?

STG is definitely a good medium, but I haven't had a batch of plants go through the entire chain in STG without some confounding problem that clouds the actual results from the medium. I did find that plants got off to a better, more vigorous start in STG than in Fytocell. I also found that the larger air passages between STG cubes provided easier access to sciarid fly (fungus gnat) larvae, deeper into the rootmass. Fytocell is more gnat resistant.

ps. Unrelated question, what lagers do aussie's drink? Here in England we assume you drink Castlemaine XXXX or Fosters as both are Aussie beers, Castlemain is goat's piss, weak shit beer, stopped being sold here in 2009 you can keep it, and fosters, although heavily marketed as an Aussie beer, with the sterotypical Aussie round a bbq.... throw another shrimp on the barby etc... is brewed in bloody Scotland, which is about as Australian as...er...rain. Surely you have a better selection than that, and do you have any English beers? As you may have gathered I like my beer almost as much as weed.

I personally do not drink alcohol. I was a pro-drunk in uni like everyone else but got bored with it soon after. May have had 5 beers in the last 25 years and 4 of them would almost certainly be Guinness. Thus, I'm probably not a good person to ask about beer. However, I can tell you that the most popular beer in Aus is probably VB (Victoria Bitter), closely followed by XXXX (mainly in QLD). Nobody in Australia drinks Fosters. It's an export brand. I can seriously say that after around 20yrs here, I've never once seen anyone with a Fosters in their hand. I'm not even sure if I could buy it at the local bottle-o.

LivingCanvas said:
Thanks Al! Several good points!

I'm very n00b when it comes to RockWool in flood tables. I haven't the first idea about timing the flood cycles.
I've done flood with hydroton, but it dries much more quickly.

Yes, you can flood pellets 2-3x/day, sometimes more with big plants.

In rockwool, will larger plants (or even SoG popsicles) pull enough water to dry out the slabs
if your flood cycle fully saturates them?

RW floc holds too much water as a general rule for SoG lollipops, which are not large plants. Even in wks 6-8, SoG plants really could be watered only 1x every 2 days in RW floc. This is why I searched out a less absorbent medium some years back and settled on Fytocell. The only plants I currently grow in straight RW floc are my mother plants, which DO become really quite large and can empty an 8" pot of RW floc of all its moisture in less than 24h.

Would recommend that you find a less-absorbent medium than RW floc. Fytocell's great if you can get it, STG cubes are quite good, you can also use perlite. Bear in mind that if you use a medium composed of fine particles like Fytocell or perlite, you will want a very thin layer of RW floc (perhaps 25mm) in the bottoms of the pots to act as a filter to keep the fine particles from escaping the drain holes in the pots.

Or is the point, to flood only long enough to thoroughly wet the RW, but not fully saturate?
(So there is still pockets of air for oxygen transfer)

The right amount of watering depends on the amount of water that can be removed by the plant, and to a lesser degree by evaporation directly from the medium. Ideally, you water your plants when half the water in the medium has been taken up by the plant/evaporated. It's complicated to water at exactly the right time with automated watering systems, so you need a medium that doesn't fully saturate- rather, has airspaces and will drain freely. Fytocell is particularly good for this. You can immerse it fully and once the excess drains off, there's still enough air in the rootzone to promote a healthy rootmass.

Not having lots of airspaces, as with saturated RW floc, is less of a problem for larger plants as they will suck up water quickly and not allow stagnation. However, all big plants are once small...

I assume that you find it easier to dispose of rockwool over soil. And maybe I'm too high...
Right now I'm wondering if I saw you grow in RW or coco... DOH!

RW floc is generally easy to dispose of but tends to be heavy if you don't allow it to dry before putting it in the bin. Soil always is heavy & near impossible to dry. However, it can be dug into gardens. Soil contains organic matter and microbes, so it's not suitable for use in hydroponics anyway.

Al B. Fuct · Sep 3, 2012

Word for the day: VACUUMSEALERSFUCKYEAH

Taurich · Sep 3, 2012

Al B. Fuct said:
STG is definitely a good medium, but I haven't had a batch of plants go through the entire chain in STG without some confounding problem that clouds the actual results from the medium. I did find that plants got off to a better, more vigorous start in STG than in Fytocell. I also found that the larger air passages between STG cubes provided easier access to sciarid fly (fungus gnat) larvae, deeper into the rootmass. Fytocell is more gnat resistant.

Have you tried the STG loose fill? It's the same material as the hail, but cheaper and you can control the amount of air-voids by how densely you pack it in.
At the very least it wouldn't have the spacious voids you would get between cubes.
If you haven't tried it yet, I plan on doing my next crop on it, will report on how it compares to RW.

Al B. Fuct said:
I personally do not drink alcohol. I was a pro-drunk in uni like everyone else but got bored with it soon after. May have had 5 beers in the last 25 years and 4 of them would almost certainly be Guinness. Thus, I'm probably not a good person to ask about beer. However, I can tell you that the most popular beer in Aus is probably VB (Victoria Bitter), closely followed by XXXX (mainly in QLD). Nobody in Australia drinks Fosters. It's an export brand. I can seriously say that after around 20yrs here, I've never once seen anyone with a Fosters in their hand. I'm not even sure if I could buy it at the local bottle-o.

Oh I'm gonna chime in too. Confirming that no Australian in the history of ever, has ever enjoyed a Fosters. As the old joke goes, we send it overseas for a reason.
Down in vic we mostly drink Carlton Draught, Carlton Cold, VB, and Corona. All those are popular mass produced beer (and pretty crap). I personally drink MB (Melbourne Bitter) and a few microbrews like White Rabbit, Beez-Neez, or Mountain Goat

---

Oh and one quick question, what is the small (1-2mm long) white moth-like insect I see flying around my crops and how do I eliminate it before it becomes a problem? What if any substances should I use to prevent insects like this from gaining a foothold?

---
Double edit: Oh I had a couple basic questions, stuff that I'm not sure I'm doing right. Such as;
a) Res depletion. How do you maintain res level? Do you let it deplete over time then dispose of the tails (last 30-40% of the sauce) and remix a new batch? Or do you constantly keep refilling the res with premixed sauce until it's time to change the recipe such as when introducing PK or altering EC?
I started off topping up with plain water to balance my EC rise (0.2-0.3 per day on a full tank, double that near end of tank cycle), eventually draining tails and remixing but found it a nightmare with constantly varying EC and flood levels. Nowadays I'm simply topping up the tank each day with a seperate (fresh) sauce, and adding H2O2 (plus maybe a few drops of PHd).
It seems to be fairly stable with no unusual nutrient imbalances in the plants, my theory is the canna nutes have buffers of a high quality that ensure the ratios stay within the ideal range. Microbial growth does not seem to be a problem either as I apply H2O2 daily, I felt that H2O2 mostly decomposes in the first 24h (not a chemist, just noticed a lot less effervescence in day old solutions), so I apply ~0.4ml/day rather than 1ml/3day.

b) Lollipopping. What exactly is your pruning technique here? When you say cut off any branches over 1" in length, do you mean *any* branches on the plant, or do you specifically only prune branches on the lower half of the plant? What if a week or two after pruning, some short branches rapidly stretched to well exceed the 1" length, would you prune these off too or do you strictly prune only once?
I think I've been doing it wrong, I just do one round of pruning and don't cut longer branches that are fairly high up on the plant. My plants def don't look like yours, I end up with 1 pretty big bud (or sometimes the plant goes funny and grows a few decent heads instead of a big cola), usually surrounded by a crown of mid-decent sized buds, and a lower crown of crap-mid buds. Am I right in guessing that I should be more aggressive with my branch pruning? Is there a point in time at which I should not attempt pruning any more? I'd personally feel dicy pruning after week 4 or 5 but I'm a rookie so I'll defer to you

Also, should I prune before or after the initial stretch?

c) PK Use, I know you were saying you are currently using 1.5ml PK & 3ml Nutes during 5/6 of flower, I'm wondering what your traditional nute levels are without the PK, seen as I'm using a similar sauce mixture I can use yours to predict mine. Currently I'm using 0.4-0.5ml of cal-mag (for an EC of 0.2), and ~3.4ml of canna flores for a total EC of 2.0. I'd like to hear what EC you'd usually run, I'm noticing a little tip burn so I'm thinking of dialing the canna down for total EC 1.8

Al B. Fuct · Sep 4, 2012

Taurich said:
Have you tried the STG loose fill? It's the same material as the hail, but cheaper and you can control the amount of air-voids by how densely you pack it in.
At the very least it wouldn't have the spacious voids you would get between cubes.
If you haven't tried it yet, I plan on doing my next crop on it, will report on how it compares to RW.

I reckon that would work better. Let us know how you go.

Oh I'm gonna chime in too. Confirming that no Australian in the history of ever, has ever enjoyed a Fosters. As the old joke goes, we send it overseas for a reason.
Down in vic we mostly drink Carlton Draught, Carlton Cold, VB, and Corona. All those are popular mass produced beer (and pretty crap). I personally drink MB (Melbourne Bitter) and a few microbrews like White Rabbit, Beez-Neez, or Mountain Goat

Fosters: it's Australian for whatthefuckISthat?

Oh and one quick question, what is the small (1-2mm long) white moth-like insect I see flying around my crops and how do I eliminate it before it becomes a problem? What if any substances should I use to prevent insects like this from gaining a foothold?

99% chance it's whitefly. Sap-sucking insect, spreads fungi, makes a hell of a mess of things if left to its own devices. Fairly easy to eradicate with the neonicotinoid insecticide Confidor (avail at any hdwe or garden shop). I think there's an 8 day withholding period for fruits & veg (and buds for that matter) treated with Confidor. Read the label. When applying, use a couple drops of liquid dish soap per litre of mixed Confidor as a wetting agent- and spray the holy shit out of everything. Pay particular attention to spraying the underside of leaves. I use a workshop air compressor & a paint spraygun to apply such things. You want to kill them all in one go. Bugs will develop a resistance if they get a sublethal dose. KILL ALL THE THINGS.

Double edit: Oh I had a couple basic questions, stuff that I've read but not sure if I've interpreted correctly. Such as;
a) Res depletion. How do you maintain res level? Do you let it deplete over time then dispose of the tails (last 30-40% of the sauce) and remix a new batch? Or do you constantly keep refilling the res with premixed sauce until it's time to change the recipe (such as when introducing PK or altering EC)?

My tanks provide 5L/plant capacity. That capacity matches fairly closely the water & nutrient consumption of the plants; this is to say that the nutrient concentration stays fairly constant as the water level in the tanks drops. I don't generally top up, either with water or mixed nute sauce. Any sauce remaining at the end of 14-15 days goes down the drain & fresh nutes mixed. Tank 3 is the exception- I run PK at 1-1.5ml/L & Flores at 3ml/L in that one for 7 days, then dump & make up a new tank with 4ml/L Flores in the 125L tank. In 7 days, that'll go down the drain and all 4 tanks get dumped & renewed, with the PK/Flores mix in tank 3. Rinse, lather, repeat.

b) Lollipopping. What exactly is your pruning technique here? When you say cut off any branches over 1" in length, do you mean *any* branches on the plant, or do you specifically only prune branches on the lower half of the plant? What if a week or two after pruning, some short branches rapidly stretched to well exceed the 1" length, would you prune these off too or do you strictly prune only once?

I generally prune twice (end wk1 & 2), sometimes 3x (end wk3). Yes, it's only the branching on the lower 1/3 of the plant, because that's where such branching will appear. You want to confine bud development to the big nugs that have basically no stem length, those which are tight up against the mainstem.

c) PK Use, I know you were saying you are currently using 1.5ml PK & 3ml Nutes during 5/6 of flower, I'm wondering what your traditional nute levels are without the PK, seen as I'm using a similar sauce mixture I can use yours to predict mine. Currently I'm using 0.4-0.5ml of cal-mag (for an EC of 0.2), and ~3.4ml of canna flores (for a total sauce EC of 2.0). I'd like to hear what EC you'd usually run

When I mix 4ml/L Flores in a 125L tank, the EC will be about 1.4-1.5, roughly 1100ppm on the Truncheon. Might be as high as 1250 depending upon variations in tapwater.

The CalMag probably isn't necessary if you're on municipal tapwater. Most water catchments have limestone substrates, which will provide plenty of Ca & Mg in most cases.

Shwagbag · Sep 4, 2012

lol, well said.. "KILL ALL THE THINGS"

Found some spider mites in my room. Operation Eradication underway!

Al B. Fuct · Sep 5, 2012

Shwagbag said:
lol, well said.. "KILL ALL THE THINGS"

Found some spider mites in my room. Operation Eradication underway!

You can try Confidor on mites but I'd recommend some heavier artillery on them. Avamectin (sometimes spelled abamectin) is the go for mites. Same advice, spray like you've never sprayed before.

BTW, use a filter mask, gloves & safety goggles which protect your eyes from mist when applying avamectin. It's gnarlier stuff than Confidor.

Shwagbag · Sep 5, 2012

Al B. Fuct said:
You can try Confidor on mites but I'd recommend some heavier artillery on them. Avamectin (sometimes spelled abamectin) is the go for mites. Same advice, spray like you've never sprayed before.

BTW, use a filter mask, gloves & safety goggles which protect your eyes from mist when applying avamectin. It's gnarlier stuff than Confidor.

Thanks Al! I'm spraying like I've sprayed before though. I've had them once or twice before and I share your mentality. CRUSH them and be done with it. I'm using Azamax this time as I have it on the shelf in my room and I need to get rid of some of my excessive growing supplies. I have a tendency to buy way more than I need lol. I think the active ingredient in Azamax is Azadirachtin, said to be derived from organic compounds. Thankfully none of the late flowering plants have been effected as far as I can tell from a visible inspection. For some reason they're only effecting 2 phenos of the same strain - Sannies Jackberry.

I'll

Al B. Fuct · Sep 5, 2012

Shwagbag said:
Thanks Al! I'm spraying like I've sprayed before though. I've had them once or twice before and I share your mentality. CRUSH them and be done with it. I'm using Azamax this time as I have it on the shelf in my room and I need to get rid of some of my excessive growing supplies. I have a tendency to buy way more than I need lol. I think the active ingredient in Azamax is Azadirachtin, said to be derived from organic compounds. Thankfully none of the late flowering plants have been effected as far as I can tell from a visible inspection. For some reason they're only effecting 2 phenos of the same strain - Sannies Jackberry.

Don't forget, 'organic' doesn't mean 'good,' 'better' or 'safe.' For reference's sake, cyanide is a 100% natural organic compound.

Regardless, it's a good idea to not spray late flowering plants with anything, 'organic' or not.

Shwagbag · Sep 5, 2012

Al B. Fuct said:
Don't forget, 'organic' doesn't mean 'good,' 'better' or 'safe.' For reference's sake, cyanide is a 100% natural organic compound.

Regardless, it's a good idea to not spray late flowering plants with anything, 'organic' or not.

Agreed 100%. I wouldn't spray anything past within 3 -4 weeks of harvest. I like to follow up with a few foliar sprays of just water just before lights out "after the smoke has cleared and the rubble has been swept away." - Tenacious D

Raphael Mechoulam · Sep 6, 2012

Shwagbag said:
Thanks Al! I'm spraying like I've sprayed before though. I've had them once or twice before and I share your mentality. CRUSH them and be done with it. I'm using Azamax this time as I have it on the shelf in my room and I need to get rid of some of my excessive growing supplies. I have a tendency to buy way more than I need lol. I think the active ingredient in Azamax is Azadirachtin, said to be derived from organic compounds. Thankfully none of the late flowering plants have been effected as far as I can tell from a visible inspection. For some reason they're only effecting 2 phenos of the same strain - Sannies Jackberry.

I'll

Everything was going so smoothly with my grow, then a week ago I noticed the dreaded little white spots on one plant. I turned over the leaves and found only two adult black mites and a few eggs. I haven't had fucking mites in over a year! I ran to the hydro shop and bought azamax, as I've used it with great success in the past. I think I went a little overboard with the dosage, and now my girls don't look as happy: a little leaf curling almost like nute burn. I only found two affected plants out of about a hundred, so I guess I panicked. I sprayed every plant heavily and even sprayed the top of the perlite in all my pots. Absolutely no sign of mites now, do you think rinsing some of the Azamax off by spraying with plain water would help? At low dosages, my girls used to love azamax looking shiny and healthy. Oh well, live and learn I guess...

iDC5 · Sep 6, 2012

i think the problem is you let too much touch the soil!

Raphael Mechoulam · Sep 6, 2012

iDC5 said:
i think the problem is you let too much touch the soil!

That could be it, although I use straight perlite. I know that you can use azamax in the rez tank and as a soil drench, but it's probably that my dosage was too high. I've been wanting to know if azamax is compatible with h202 so I could add it to the rez, but I haven't found any info on that either way...

Shwagbag · Sep 6, 2012

Doubtful you got enough into the root zone to harm them. I administered on the higher side of the recommending chart for foliar spray and mine also were stressed from it. I'll be doing the lighter application for the 2nd and 3rd sprays.

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once had a dog named

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once had a dog named

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