LEC Sun System 315W CMH/Philips Elite Agro 930 - Virgin Flowering Run

aphrodisia said:

Nice grow. They are bushing out nicely for jusr two plants. Almost looks like natural light under that light.

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Thanks aphrodisia, they are filling in nicely, first grow of the PPP and it seems to be living up to it's billing as a decent producer

The light is similar to white LED COBs, very bright and natural, no "bands" when you take the pics, kind of nice for taking pics, saves me some time setting up for pics, nothing to do

ballist said:

Anyone know where to buy these globes in the eu? I can't find anything greater than 150w online.

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I have the same problem here (Canada), end up having to buy most of what I need through US web sites. You could try searching through e-Bay, pretty sure I've seen some of the Philips Agro bulbs in there. Shipping shouldn't be much for the bulbs though so even a US site may be reasonable.

@GroErr

What made you choose the sunsystem 315w CDM versus this one offered by advancedtechlighting? Is there something I'm overlooking in the comparison?

As far as I can tell they're the same, sunsystems kit just comes with reflector? For 220 for bulb and ballast I don't wanna look elsewhere...

I'm not sure if I wanna get two 315s on a light mover or just one 860w... I like the efficiency of the 315s but as another user told me, go for the watts, especially with a nice spectrum like the CDMs have...

Edit: 860w lamps run off of a 1000wMH magnetic ballast

a senile fungus said:

@GroErr

What made you choose the sunsystem 315w CDM versus this one offered by advancedtechlighting? Is there something I'm overlooking in the comparison?
As far as I can tell they're the same, sunsystems kit just comes with reflector? For 220 for bulb and ballast I don't wanna look elsewhere...

I'm not sure if I wanna get two 315s on a light mover or just one 860w... I like the efficiency of the 315s but as another user told me, go for the watts, especially with a nice spectrum like the CDMs have...

Edit: 860w lamps run off of a 1000wMH magnetic ballast

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I wanted a kit/package with a good quality reflector that was supported running @120v and specifically to run the Elite Agro bulbs, not just CMH, nor simply throwing wattage at my plants. Not all light is created equal, I'd rather pay more up-front to gain efficiency, both from a lower long-term operating cost, plus the yet-to-be-determined benefits of probably the most efficient light source available in today's market (other than maybe some DIY LED's done right). Different angle, initial or up-front cost was not my priority, quality and efficiency was/is. I only have so much room and usually like to try different things, in the room I have throwing in 860W from one light source would limit any additional lights/flexibility to run other lights/configuratoins in that space. Quantity/production is not my driver, this is a hobby for me, not a source of income. I want the best quality, reasonable yields, at the lowest operational cost/footprint.

The advancedlighting is probably the cheapest option to run these 315W elite agro bulbs, if you want to put it together yourself, particularly if you're good with running bare-bulb. Note that the ballast + bulb does not include the converter if you're running 120v, nor any sort of reflector if you want one, so cheaper is a relative term. If you have 220/240v available, the most efficient spec-wise out there would be the Ceramatek 375W ballast with the 315W Philips Agro bulb, of course there are others, these are just the most efficient.

As far as throwing watts at plants, imo that's bad economics and a typical attitude of growers that are money/production-driven (which is a contradiction in itself). I'd rather throw 2x 315W of the elite agro bulbs than just try to power my way through to get yields, otherwise I would have just gone 1000w hps or maybe the 860w CMH but from what I've read/seen and specs, I believe 2x 315W of the elite agro bulbs would produce more than 1x 860w CMH or hps and cost less to operate.

Great thread GroErr.

Since nobody replied to this:

GroErr said:

Oh, and the late blooming Blueberry male The first one just started shooting out male flowers, easy to see/detect. This one didn't show anything but what looked to be pistils until I checked them last night. You can see the "pistils" around the forming male flowers.

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Those are stipules, not pistils, it sure seems fully male.

ballist said:

Anyone know where to buy these globes in the eu? I can't find anything greater than 150w online.

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Philips announced a few months ago they are stopping with supplying bulbs for the cannabis grow industry (meaning our grow shops). That's in the Netherlands itself, I don't think it affects the US, BUT it may explain why they are harder to find in the eu.

very nice @GroErr

this is how i got my 315 lec set up..i try to keep the light at 12-18 in off tops. this is only over a 2x2 tray..just a test run,to see how the light spread is..ect.



i have ran these plants under hps a few times,and as of right now..they are 10+ days ahead of the other runs(maybe just clones setting in)
thicker trich coverage,and very nice "leaf tug" test....@5-6 weeks.
i'm thinking about switching the bloom bulb out,for the veg..the last few weeks.

Sativied said:

Great thread GroErr.

Since nobody replied to this:
Those are stipules, not pistils, it sure seems fully male.

Philips announced a few months ago they are stopping with supplying bulbs for the cannabis grow industry (meaning our grow shops). That's in the Netherlands itself, I don't think it affects the US, BUT it may explain why they are harder to find in the eu.

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lol thanks for the correction on the term, what you said And yes they were definitely male it was pulled the night I noticed it and just trashed as I already had a blueberry in the breeding tent to collect pollen from.

Interesting info on the bulbs, was considering having a back-up on hand so I may grab a bulb just in case supply dries out. Think they're about $90 so not a huge deal and that should last the life of the fixture if you believe their specs on lifetime...

genuity said:

very nice @GroErr

this is how i got my 315 lec set up..i try to keep the light at 12-18 in off tops. this is only over a 2x2 tray..just a test run,to see how the light spread is..ect.

i have ran these plants under hps a few times,and as of right now..they are 10+ days ahead of the other runs(maybe just clones setting in)
thicker trich coverage,and very nice "leaf tug" test....@5-6 weeks.
i'm thinking about switching the bloom bulb out,for the veg..the last few weeks.

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Thanks for posting this, looks great! My footprint right now is running approx. 2x3' but I'm giving them a little space between since I have lots of coverage.

Interesting that you mention 10 days. Was going to mention the same thing in my next update. Mine are running at least 10 days ahead of my last LED run, and the JTR is a clone from the last run so it is a valid comparison. They weren't the greatest LED's for flowering mind you, but you're mentioning the same thing under hps, makes me think it's the lights. From my end the only significant differences between this run and last are the lights, and I have them in 5Gal vs. 3Gal pots, I don't think the pots would have anything to do with the pace of flowering though. These 2 plants were actually a little smaller when I flipped them than the last round, close but definitely not bigger as these were the runts of the litter.

If these lights have something to do with the speed of flowering, I'm interested to see the final outcome. Either the buds will have that much more time to mature into bigger/denser buds, or even maybe knock a week off the finish time? Time will tell, same or better yield with a shorter time would be f'n awesome and well worth the price of admission Absolutely no complaints so far.

Nice looking grows. What is the height dimension of that reflector?

CaliWorthington said:

Nice looking grows. What is the height dimension of that reflector?

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Thanks Cali, haven't measured it since I don't have any head room issues but will and post later when I can get in the room. A wild guess would be around 14" to 16". The socket sits vertical and right at the top of the fixture, the bulb hangs down and is pretty well flush with the bottom of the reflector.

14-16" doesn't sound too bad. Unless I get 240V installed, I might run some of these in the winter. Not that I don't have enough Cree COBs already, but metal halide was previously my favorite, so I know I would love CMH.

CaliWorthington said:

14-16" doesn't sound too bad. Unless I get 240V installed, I might run some of these in the winter. Not that I don't have enough Cree COBs already, but metal halide was previously my favorite, so I know I would love CMH.

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Hey, I was off but even better, they're only 9.75" H from the bottom of the reflector to the top of the hanging brackets. More than LED's but not bad for head room at all. Overall they're 15.5" W x 17.25" L x 9.75" H. The angle on the reflectors (all 4 sides) covers a nice 3'x3' footprint.

Here's what I was talking about earlier on in a post, just a shitty cam pic but these plants below are at Day 18 of 12/12. The buds are forming at least 10 days ahead of my last run with the LG LED's. The christmas tree shaped buds on JTR (front) are already starting to form, the PPP buds are even bigger balls. I may be a bit biased, but to me that's insanely fast development. I'm likin it

I may throw 240v circuit in at some point when I have the room down for something else. I'm sure these 120's would be easy enough to convert, just some re-wiring and removing or just by-passing the converter box. Main benefit is about 40W - 50W of overhead you don't have to run or pay for. I think their specs, which are for 240v claim a total of 335W between the bulb and ballast. I recently measured it at 386-389W under this config. I have enough materials to build 4x50W and 1x100W panels using the Cree 3070's, just starting to finish up the final design, have to visualize the end product, then get around to building them I've seen some very nice grows finishing up recently with those COB's, thinking I'll run the 100W panel in my 2x2 tent, I'm doing breeding in there and probably some 12/12 from seeds/clones as I won't be collecting pollen for a while, just went through a long run and collected JTR, AoS, Blueberry and PPP pollen...

Time for the weekly update. We're at a whopping 22 days from 12/12 flip. Another amazing week with these plants. No environmental issues, everything is steady. They're drinking every 2-3 days now, just sucking up whatever I give them, hungry ladies Loving those trellises, they're keeping the canopy nice and even but open enough to get light down below, there's nice second and third layer of buds developing below the top canopy. About 16 major colas between the 2 plants, not bad, doing some additional training with both of these strains for next round.

Not slowing down the pace at all. I'm having to monitor, adjust feeds/waterings as they're behaving more like they're at the end of week 4. Not a bad thing but it's interesting to see them develop buds this fast and how the plants behave because of it. They're healthy though, ploughing away at building buds.

JTR's buds are already starting to frost up. This is a frosty strain but at 3 weeks?

Got a few pics showing the canopy, and some bud development close-ups. Won't ramble on, will let the pics elaborate


Cheers

Another angle from the monitoring cam in the room yesterday @day 22. The resolution isn't the greatest but it provides a good overhead shot of the plants and bud structure/development. The second black/white shot is during lights out, just before they came back on. The IR shots are cool in that you can see the bud density/development easier, it gets highlighted white...

Looking real good! You seriously have me chewing on a CMH purchase, rather than LED. Cost of entry is so high on quality LED at the moment and thiese LEC 315's seem like a really nice jumping off point for my room!

Hey thanks mako, I'm blown away so far, my son runs hps for flowering so I have a first-hand comparison to both low-end LED's and hps. These are blowing both out of the water right now, should be interesting to see how they behave/act through the rest of the cycle but damn I'm impressed to-date. My decision to go with these was based on much the same as your comments, I needed something that could perform but not break the bank and from a cost per watt perspective these looked great on paper based on their specs. So far they're performing to their specs + some imo. I had some questions around heat but considering this run is right in mid-summer, they really put out little more heat than LED's, pretty sure I could run 2 of these through fall/winter/spring and maintain the same temps I'm running now without any modifications. Will definitely be able to run this + 200-300W of DIY LED's with no heat problems.

genuity said:

very nice @GroErr

this is how i got my 315 lec set up..i try to keep the light at 12-18 in off tops. this is only over a 2x2 tray..just a test run,to see how the light spread is..ect.
View attachment 3205037
View attachment 3205038
View attachment 3205039
i have ran these plants under hps a few times,and as of right now..they are 10+ days ahead of the other runs(maybe just clones setting in)
thicker trich coverage,and very nice "leaf tug" test....@5-6 weeks.
i'm thinking about switching the bloom bulb out,for the veg..the last few weeks.

Click to expand...

Nice.

GroErr said:

Time for the weekly update. We're at a whopping 22 days from 12/12 flip. Another amazing week with these plants. No environmental issues, everything is steady. They're drinking every 2-3 days now, just sucking up whatever I give them, hungry ladies Loving those trellises, they're keeping the canopy nice and even but open enough to get light down below, there's nice second and third layer of buds developing below the top canopy. About 16 major colas between the 2 plants, not bad, doing some additional training with both of these strains for next round.

Not slowing down the pace at all. I'm having to monitor, adjust feeds/waterings as they're behaving more like they're at the end of week 4. Not a bad thing but it's interesting to see them develop buds this fast and how the plants behave because of it. They're healthy though, ploughing away at building buds.

JTR's buds are already starting to frost up. This is a frosty strain but at 3 weeks?

Got a few pics showing the canopy, and some bud development close-ups. Won't ramble on, will let the pics elaborate
View attachment 3208721 View attachment 3208722 View attachment 3208724 View attachment 3208725 View attachment 3208727 View attachment 3208728 View attachment 3208730 View attachment 3208731 View attachment 3208732

Cheers

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Looking good GroErr. If they look like this at 3 weeks I reckon you are going to end up with a few donkey dicks .

aphrodisia said:

Looking good GroErr. If they look like this at 3 weeks I reckon you are going to end up with a few donkey dicks .

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Lol, yeah I've had those donkey dicks outdoor in good years, hoping to see them indoor, this could be the round
Talking about outdoor, been posting these ladies in my journal/blog, they're about 9 weeks outdoor now. Call them the cottage girls. 1x JTR (centre) and 2x PBK's taking up a 3' H x 3'W x 6'L footprint with 3 plants in 7gal pots, same 50% Pro-mix/50% Triple Mix I'm using indoor, just water and the odd feeding, think I've fed them 5-6 times in the 9 weeks, mainly water and that f'n awesome thing we call the sun, these should produce nicely The larger fan leaves on JTR can completely hide my hand, they're at least twice the size of my indoor JTR leaves, gotta love that sun...

Hope you're well into curing your latest harvest, those buds looked great!

GroErr said:

Lol, yeah I've had those donkey dicks outdoor in good years, hoping to see them indoor, this could be the round
Talking about outdoor, been posting these ladies in my journal/blog, they're about 9 weeks outdoor now. Call them the cottage girls. 1x JTR (centre) and 2x PBK's taking up a 3' H x 3'W x 6'L footprint with 3 plants in 7gal pots, same 50% Pro-mix/50% Triple Mix I'm using indoor, just water and the odd feeding, think I've fed them 5-6 times in the 9 weeks, mainly water and that f'n awesome thing we call the sun, these should produce nicely The larger fan leaves on JTR can completely hide my hand, they're at least twice the size of my indoor JTR leaves, gotta love that sun...

Hope you're well into curing your latest harvest, those buds looked great!
View attachment 3209404

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Whoa, Im jealous. That looks just great. Ive never had the opportunity to grow outdoors unfortunately but wouldn't mind giving it a go, plus a big bonus being it doesn't cost you a penny ! The buds are still curing nicely, haven't touched them yet just been smoking on the sugar punch I managed to salvage from the mouldy buds. The NL#5/haze is what I would call an "untidy" looking weed, i.e it hasn't got great bag appeal but I rolled a joint of it yesterday just to try and boy, it is strong weed even without curing. The buzz has still got that fuzzy, monged out feel to it towards the end but a 5 week cure will soon get rid of that. The sugar punch by the way is also an outstanding smoke and it has great bag appeal. How tall are your current indoor plants by the way ?