Led Growing Is The Way Of The Future My Friends
- Thread starter curly604
- Start date
I just did?
I really don't see how someone can can argue that because a particular store doesn't sell them that they must be junk, its much easier for someone who has never used an LED (especially a good one) to say they can't work. I've seen many completed grows, I completed 1 flowering with my LED so far but this is my first grow that I will have also vegged with the same LED. I know there are good LEDs out there that work better than HPS watt for watt (to a point--> I wouldn't pit any single LED panel against a single 1000w HPS system, as they don't even make >600w LED panels for starters)
PS: I'm not saying LED>HID because I know there are many pros and cons to each (especially in the winter haha). I'm saying that people who say HID is always > LED don't know what they're talking about because they haven't seen enough evidence from good LED panels.
mikadodarkside
Well-Known Member
I hate to say it but the only viable LED that are on the market are the home made ones, I mean you really cant rely on these companies to make good products when they are constantly trying to fuck over the consumer. Such is capitalism... But really if you have a series of LEDs that fill the natural spectrum.(please google image "natural sunlight spectrum") And with the knowledge that a typical LED as a peak wavelength are a relativly intensity of 60% for about + or - 10-30 nanometers. Then if you fill your board with every spectrum ( say 20 different LED wavelengths) you have real potential to grow something good. then from there add to the points where cholorophill A and B are used ( 450 and 660) . As it is now, companies simply fill 450 and 660 and walk the fuck away.
Typcial costs:
american LED 1-3 $ a watt
Chinese LED 0.75 $ a watt
plus a few dollars for a driver circuit. but essentially this is what the real price of these lights are.
The real problem is that companies are trying to make grow lights with a limited range of light output. I dont believe that LED's will work well until full spectrum models are available. but when they are it will be epic . in terms of plasma, the price point of these being viable is about 10 years behind LEDs, but for not lack of quality product. There are simply more active LED companies. also the plasma gets to be 6000 Kelvin. So thats some scary shit.
Typcial costs:
american LED 1-3 $ a watt
Chinese LED 0.75 $ a watt
plus a few dollars for a driver circuit. but essentially this is what the real price of these lights are.
The real problem is that companies are trying to make grow lights with a limited range of light output. I dont believe that LED's will work well until full spectrum models are available. but when they are it will be epic . in terms of plasma, the price point of these being viable is about 10 years behind LEDs, but for not lack of quality product. There are simply more active LED companies. also the plasma gets to be 6000 Kelvin. So thats some scary shit.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
So first of all,you don't smoke what you grow,so how could you possibly REALLY know about how well LED grows pot?
Also you can't use C02 with them without a heater cos it'd be too cold (you need about 29C)...man,do you build LEDs? Your defending them and taking it very seriously when you dont even smoke weed!
I didn't say I don't consume what I grow or that I don't consume at all (please stop assuming so much about me/putting words into my mouth?), I said I don't smoke or intend to ever use a bong. I don't build LEDs, but I'm sick of people who haven't seen the proof or used one themselves saying they suck (or proposing they must suck because local shops don't carry any, yes I do mean that to more than 2 or 3 people). They might not be worth the upfront cost depending on peoples situations, but they don't suck anymore if you know who to buy from and what features to look out for (and what BS to avoid).
I agree that building your own is much more $ efficient, they do have people claiming full spectrum LED panels. Mine has 12, and I've never seen any company have more than 12. You don't need every wavelength the sun produces, because not all of it is useful for plants.
PS: Not sure how hard it would be to build your own panel with that safety tech though, which I consider to be an extremely important feature for any LED light (also companies claim that makes it easy to replace LEDs on your own)
mikadodarkside
Well-Known Member
350-700nm, 350 nm that you have to cover,
say each LED covers 10nm at 80% intensity. that is 35 wavelenths to make an actuall full spectrum light.
nobody on the maket has it.
say each LED covers 10nm at 80% intensity. that is 35 wavelenths to make an actuall full spectrum light.
nobody on the maket has it.
I know! I'm actually quite surprised no one is selling panels with more than 12 wavelengths, just so they could at least try and claim they are better because of it. Most seem to be 3 or 4, or 7, or 12. But the market seems to have settled on 12 for a max, so perhaps that really is as far as it will go in the race for differen't nm/wavelengths, perhaps now it will all be in what wattage you can get those in (I haven't seen any panel myself that uses 12 wavelengths and anything more than 3w diodes (most are run 50 or 75% that rating if you average the wattage over all the diodes equally (some wavelengths can run at a higher wattage than others)
budleydoright
Well-Known Member
I've got to disagree with that statement. While I am still in the HID club and have no plans to change soon, LED technology is poised to really change things. We should be glad there are people who are willing to try out new developments and push the envelope, regardless of if is it is effective or not. Do we really need to take sides here, we're all doing the same thing.
I hope the promiss of this new technology, is fulfilled. I am always striving for more effeciency. Less in/More out makes us all winners!
But again, for the time being, I'll stick with my 400-600-1000-1150 switchable HPS/MH until that killer panel hits the streets.
Any science to back that up?
Thanks budleydoright, bit more of sensible attitude there. I agree with you it can still improve a bit, but from the evidence I've seen I believe there are killer panels out there now (but only with 3-4 different LED companies) with how much the tech advanced early this year over last year (and most of the kick but grows I saw were done with last years tech). I don't think any 1 LED panel can out due a 1000w HID (this is years away I agree), but I do believe it isn't difficult to replace a lesser HID system with a single LED panel.
Befamousvideo
Member
Here is a link to a time lapse video using LED from Growl and 420GS capillary pots. These pots simplify growing. He has 17 oz from 6 plants on his first run without any fine tuning. I like the 420GS pots, my plants thrive. Just not ready to spring for the new LED lights yet. Someday for sure.
mccumcumber
Well-Known Member
I would really like to see how the equivalent of 2k HIDs in LEDs compares to 2k HPS in flowering. Same amount of plants, somewhere around 18 would probably be best in a 4x8.
I say this because I'm almost positive that LEDs do not provide the penetration necessary to even touch the yield a 2k HPS system would provide. I really do see the potential for LEDs, but there time has not come yet. As it stands right now, they are a glorified fluoro. Sure, it is possible to come out with some amazing bud, maybe even better quality than HPS (I'm prefectly happy with my quality as it stands), but the fact of the matter is, most LED growers, if not all, are small time.
If there is an example of LEDs grows that during flowering have greater than or equal to 9 plants per light, then I would love to see it. I am investing in an aquaponics system for the, hopefully not too distant, future, and I was thinking of running it primarily outdoor, with some indoor in the winter-spring season. If there is a LED fixture out there that can provide me with the light that I need, I would be more than happy to jump on board.
I say this because I'm almost positive that LEDs do not provide the penetration necessary to even touch the yield a 2k HPS system would provide. I really do see the potential for LEDs, but there time has not come yet. As it stands right now, they are a glorified fluoro. Sure, it is possible to come out with some amazing bud, maybe even better quality than HPS (I'm prefectly happy with my quality as it stands), but the fact of the matter is, most LED growers, if not all, are small time.
If there is an example of LEDs grows that during flowering have greater than or equal to 9 plants per light, then I would love to see it. I am investing in an aquaponics system for the, hopefully not too distant, future, and I was thinking of running it primarily outdoor, with some indoor in the winter-spring season. If there is a LED fixture out there that can provide me with the light that I need, I would be more than happy to jump on board.
let's think about this. say you have a big warehouse, like 2000 square ft., and you need about 30 lights to cover the whole room. are you gonna spend $ 9,000 on 1000w hps, knowing that NO LED can touch it's yield, or are you gonna gamble and spend $90,000 to get the most powerful leds, so you can MAYBE yield the same as a 600w hps, and then spend another $90k in 5 years? that would not be very strategic if you're trying to make money.
Nobody I know of sells LED panels that use more than 600w (and the 600s are usually 1w diodes). I won't argue that LEDs can penetrate better than a 1000w HPS, but a good LED will flower at 1 foot away and through at least 3 feet of green (so yeah not as suited to growing trees as 1000w HID, but they are much better suited for things like SCROG considering their features). For a 4x8 I'd except to spend $2000-3000 to replace that 2000 HPS with 1000w LED at about $2-3 per watt (2 is the good low end, 3 is the most reasonable high end), which is a shit load more than for someone to set up that space for 2000w HID, but you will have only 10% as much heat to deal with (biggest pro when it comes to LED is that it can grow as well as HPS but with >25% as much heat watt for watt)
I agree that no single LED can touch a single 1000w HPS, but 1000w of the good LED panels will grow more/better than 1000w of HPS (the more panels its split between the better). I agree for large legal commercial grows HID is still most viable (most reliable, cheaper, pays itself off faster, and if the DEA comes you won't lose as much investment), but for anyone growing in their house, a room, shed, I think LED is worth it now. HID and LED each have enough of their own pros and cons
PS: I agree to cover 2000 sq feet with the best LEDs it would cost 90k if you bought whole panels WITHOUT bulk discounts and didn't build your own to any degree. But for people growing in say a 4x4 tent that works out to only costing them $1000-2000 depending on what brand and how many watts, yes this is much more expensive than an HID set up for that space, but one must consider all the pros and LED has over HID and realize for many its a viable option. I think its most viable though for people living in locations where it is just too hot outside to run HID set ups plus air conditioning
420greendream
Well-Known Member
Spend the 9k on the hps lights and wait until technology gets better and prices go down on led's once they become more popular. Then drop that 90k later on, when leds are the shit.
I agree, shit I'd even wait until marijuana was legalized and regulated and the DEA wasn't going after any good folk (unless LED somehow drops in price by half) before spending that kind of money on a grow if you can get away without doing so. I personally think LED can be great now, but its definitely not great enough to justify spending that much more on a commercial grow in this kind of legal/illegal growing climate. I think this is the year the LED ball will really get rolling because many companies are finally updating to 3w diodes and better wavelengths who were selling 1w shit the last few years and never updating their products (so the chances that people getting crappy panels from some place besides ebay will go down a lot)
I would have only made such an edit when referring to 1000w HPS lights, ex: a 1000w LED panel probably wouldn't compete with a 1000w HPS for foot print, but 1000w of LED say across 4 panel should beat a 1000w HPS. Foot print is LEDs only real issue, which isn't exactly an issue anyway almost an advantage (each LED has its own focusing lens to the light is more easily concentrated than with a traditional bulb)
I don't sell any, and when people ask about what companies are good I always list at least 3 or 4 thanks for assuming more about me (look up there I gave a good low and a good high which is at least 2 companies). Shit I'm so poor from not having a job that I had to make a deal with the LED company to get my light sooner even though I didn't have all the money to buy it (ok I didn't have to, but the deal meant I'd get the light in time to flower a whole harvest instead of getting the last week of it)