LED Lights Vs. HPS

bigsy

Member
I realize that this thread has gone cold but need to post b/c there is a lot of really sloppy info here. I'm considering LED. I'm not sold yet but I've learned a great deal. 1st. not all LEDs are created equal. You get what you pay for and even then there are so many rip off artist. Beware. You will need true red emitters to stand a chance. 2nd. Laserbrn needs to chill. People are looking to exchange information and learn. You may be 100% correct but your presentation sucks. Grow up. 3rd. This subject has been covered in a lot more detail elsewhere with complete and impressive grow logs. See: http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/181119-led-grow-show.html also see this thread: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/183080-importance-460nm-red-leds.html where you will find some kickass information.

Please don't rely on this thread for anything but the amusing 15 year old trying to flame war anyone who disagrees with him.
 

bigsy

Member
Are there any LED grow journals on here?
I haven't seen any here. But do look at the link I cite above. It is interesting to be sure. This technology is evolving fast. It is the way of the future. Whether or not it is there yet is an open debate.

I'm considering LEDs for my rig but the misinformation out there is huge. You must be very careful about what you buy. The market is flooded with underpowered junk that will not meet flowering needs. You need a 2 or 3 watt LED with the right light spectrum to get it done and even then it seems that your yield will be 10 - 20% below what you would get with an HID although there is evidence that yields are more potent.

LEDs will cost you more up front. But it will repay you in through energy savings, no bulb replacements, and lack of cooling costs.

I'd love to hear from others, in a reasonable, responsible way. I'm looking to learn here. Not flame war. Can anyone else point to grow logs using LEDs?
 
why some people think that 250-400 watts are something to worry about. a fuckin computer is 450-600 watts minimum and i don't think anybody shut down his computer because of the fuckin' electric bill. Just a thought :D
Real ignorant statement man, computers dont run at the PSU rating unless thats how many volts are needed due to equipment, almost all are powersaving, as in bios or windows setting shutting down the cpu, ram, hd, so on to use lower voltages then the norm 12v 5v 3.v and so on, I have a 1000w PSU in mine with massive powereating equipment its always on, runs on an apc doesnt effect electric bill because your devices run all on certain voltages which are standard, the more your putting on your computer the harder hardware has to work the more information is flowing the more power the PSU puts out PSU's are regulated Using a 1000w at 12/12 is pulling 1000w 12 hours per day steady it hits your electric bill pretty big, you buy equipment associated with hydroponics online or pay with card in store its connected to you, and flagged, your powerbill is then watched for a major fluctuation. You gotta remmember the government is moving towards "cyber security at a higher rate, cyber security means more watching on what people are buying and doin online. And they dont have to pick you out individually, you know how a Enterprise System works? what is is and what its for? a company keeps track of every order, every card, every customer name and what they ordered, automatically orders supplies once inventory runs low there is all kind of software suites CMS IMS ECS MCS UAM etc etc etc. This is all within an enterprise network setup.

So keing your electic bill low is crucial, buy from a mom and pop shop if it costs more money, DONT TELL ANYONE YOUR GROWING, DONT SHOW ANYONE YOUR GROW AREA EVER EVER EVER. The government pays people and places them in alot of forums to pose and they ar egood usually become very respected people and very trusted. They aint there to learn about growing or anything else they already know more then most people or as much as the best people in the forum. Order your growlights and euipment, let your bill spike youll be flagged BUT thats fine just never ever give the a reason to get a warrant and with this whole cybersecurity thing going to congress and being looked over be very carefull what you say on the net, just like conversations are flagged and recorded in a huge database which the program was started back in the 50's its expanded into the internet realm.

Marijuana is on an upswing right now and thats a good thing, and politically they really have no choice but to decriminilize and start by adding more medical states, then move to decrim and eventually open market because the catch 22 marijuana tax can be disbanded and they can just actually tax it for real. That day will come if the economy continues to go the way it is, jails crowded with pot and minor drug convictions. Anyways i trailed off.

LED = CHEAP technology getting cheaper everyday I use combo, but where LED's really make a big impact is the blue led high power pannels whenever budding starts thats the tie to hit the plant with alot of blue end spectrum it promotes budding and is one of the major spectrums used by the plant during budding I wrote a small guide called "The Blue end of the Spectrum" I have a Masters in sciencew/ majors in Biotechnics and Computer Security/forensics. For my thesis for my bBiotechnic masters thats hte name of the thesis i wrote. I did the study while working internship at a pharmeceuticl company, they allowed me to do the study to write my thesis which i plan on using the same for the end of my doctorate. What i wrote was more of a doctoral thesis and proof then a required masters essay. I did quiet a bit of biological study in the growth of buddy but not only that the producing of the Tri's and the actual THC content withen the Tri's through Thin Layer and Gas DHP Chromotography i found that the thc production on the microgram level was at 99.999% pure within the Tri's TLC extracted from the Tri structure itself was 99.769%
THC extratred from around the actual capillary pathways within the leaves was about 94% pure this was under ideal blue spectrum absorbtion for the breed which was totaally Sativa, as i was comparing differences between indica pure bread and sativa pure bread, also sativa pure breed makes more use of blu ray during pre-budding and budding

With HPLC w/ Blue fluro's of the equivilent and showed the same order of total purity in microgram of 98.962%, 98,434%, 90% Respective to the above percentages

The yeilds of the actual bud was increased under led blue light by 46% and under blue floro bud production was increased by 25%

the essay is "The Blue End of the Spectrum i posted to the net and many forums back when i wrote it under the author name BiotechFRK"

The essay has been edited as it is a uinique idea and alot of the things i did, and an ultimate discovery which was made that is very substantial is not within the essay the essay its just a trimmed down version close to the one i turned in for my Masters the full essay will be used for my doctorate as it is an "original idea/discovery"

The essay does contain specifics for growers to help on yeild and compound purity of both THC and its two constituants. Also using the trichome chrystals i wrote a simple way to check strength (purity) of your plants prodution by a simple to make reagent matching color change then adding an easy to get chemical and then using a ph checker to check the ph value but it has to check values to the -3 dec of PH. This can tell you how good that run of the mill stuff that floats around $10-$25g depending on where you live and that bad ass shit that has made up names by posers or real names of breed by the good sells that runs about $5-$15more per G than the regular mentioned above depending on where your at and who ur ehem giving to or getting from.

If your spending the money and taking the time and TLC towards the beutifull plants that are many hybrids of the sativa majority (my most favorite) or the hybrids of the more indica majority (not my favorite) but both types pure indica or sativa, strainds or hybrid 50/50 or leaning towards one breed to the other. If you really care keep whats going on in politics in mind with cyber security, try to get the most bang for the buck and using LED's your gonna save money no matter what

During the bio study done if the regular LED's & blue LEDS(during bud time) made such a big difference and the plants also seemed to like the type of light put out by the LED's a variable that we cant really measure that they liked, maybe somthing about light quality so many variables can effect biology of any living organisms .

I wish i was still on internmanship at that lab. I have always liked Sodium bulbs and used fluro blue arrays during budding, but now with full spectrum LED's available and relatively WAY LONGER LASTING without lumens degredation , as well as much cheaper on electricity, LED's are in my study proved the factual basis of they pay for theirselves in both yeild and quality of output as long as you stay on top of your organics or hyro mixtures ratios. If your gonna stay with HPS anyways PLEASE during buddying at least add a decent blue led panel size depending on the wattage of Sodium bulb keep on top of your hydro nutrient ratios and mixtures for budding and keep it nice and steady with extremely hydrated hydro, airate the tank, but also if your have a pipping system its a good idea to drill holes 2 inches from pot and rig up a pressurized nozzle near each pot inlet that can produce a very fine mist out of the nozzle. A big air pump for bigger aquariums with enough outlets to go to each each jet you place next to pot (if your doing enough growing you may have to use mroe pumps and tubing obviously) but the basis is u wants pressurized puped water through the nozzle that can produce a super fine mist, but also within the hose you want to extend the clear air hose from the air pump into the water tube going to the mister, and have the end of the tube pumping air pushed up against the nozzle and then pull it back a little bit. there is nothing like a custom built 10" diameter flow system with misting near roots an strait air injection into the water going straight throug the misting nozzle. Trick is to find just the right nozzle that doesnt stick in to far and of course keep everything very very light tight.

"Blue end of the Spectrum" by me under my forum name t the time at whateve forum i was in BiotechFRK (I had sudden death attack due to long qt event that turned into a vfib was dead for 6 minutes ems brought me back died in ambulance again they brought me back, was in coma for a week doctors gave me 5% chance of waking up, i did obviously it was foiund out i have rare geneti strain of Long QT Syndrome so they installed a deffibulator/pacemaker) This happened right after i finished my Biotechnnology masters. I have brain damage short term memory totally sucks baaaddd, ut i still got that growin knowledge from a second nature hobby, unfortunately i forgot alot of my biotechnology stuff i had learned near the end courses of y masters so i have a lab at the house ive spent alot of money on (ran my own escort business for Oversized loads while i was in school) made alot of money doing that ALOT pluss other ways. But lost business due to being in hospital fo 3 months and my major disabilities. If anyone wants to discuss poppy gworth lemme know its totally legal to grow poppies aint that great, it just aint legal to extract the milk for the all important codeine and "the baine" constituants, Opium. You be suprised what you can make with general knowledge of organic chemistry and ragular chemistry procedures. and ebay is a goldmine of equipment who needs the 1500 dollar magnetic stirrer/hotplate 10x10 when you can get the smae one on eba a little used but working perfectly for 100 bucks. Samething with Rotovapes, water baths with 4 pools 6 pools whatever, chryotanks, heating mantles, chem glass such as distillation supplies. diaphram vacuum/compression pump,

awesome for vacuum distillation, dessication (cheap on ebay even brand new) some incubator shakers that reuire neg atmosphere, etc etc etc. Most chemicals legal anyone can buy and not watched or controlled, watched ones, can be made easily from oens that arent and controlled ones can be made from the watched ones your made with ones that arent watched. I love Biotechnology, but pharmeceutical chemistry mostly organics pharmeceutical chemistry is me passion.
 
LED Marijuana Grow

Complete grow with HID and UFO.

To me I'm not sold on it yet. The UFO cost $600, while a 400 watt HPS only cost about $150. You get more grams per kwh of electricity with the UFO, but you would need two UFOs to get the same weight that you get with a 400 watt HPS. That means you would have to shell out $1200 for two UFOs to match the 400 watt HPS. That means you would have to save $1050 in electricity just to make it worth it, and it would probably take like 5 years to do that, if not more. Wait for the price to come down, then they are worth it.
I disagree that it takes 2 UFO LEDs to match a 400w HPS. All you need is a florescent light to supplement and you are doing better the 400w hps alone.

Secondly I don't know where you buy your 90w UFO LEDs for $600 but check this out: the price is down you can now get UFO led grow lights for only $269.
:weed:
 

purplecream

Active Member
the tubes lights are for growers that like tube steaks. HPS AND MH ALL THE WAY SON!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Lol.

I don't know shit about leds so i can't really bash them but i think in the long run hps saves you alot of money. You can yield a couple of ounces with the hps which go for around 300 bucks. That right there should be worth the extra money on the energy bill. It would take a couple of grows with an led for it to pay itself off. The good ones are expensive.
 
Hmm,, sorry if I upset anyone by posting this, but this is an independant study.

University of Minn. Department of Horticultural Science LED vs. High Pressure Sodium Test Results (2006)

<SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">The following graph shows results obtained at the University of Minnesota, Department of Horticultural Science comparing our LED lights and high pressure sodium (HPS) lights. Mean plant height of Capsicum annuum &#8216;Hungarian&#8217; and Bellis perennis &#8216;Monstrosa&#8217;was measured over seven weeks grown under LED and HPS HID lamps.

If you google the top line you can see the graph that shows LED beating HPS.
I`m no expert, are you? I did not know ,so I asked people who did.
You should seriously be slapped for posting that. First of all do you see the abbundance of "Buy LED Lights" links covering that page? Do you see any study information? Which doctor applied for the money grant? How much money was spent on that study? WHO PAID FOR IT? THOSE ARE ESSENTIAL informations man. Awhile back they proved MJ caused brain damage by gas masking monkeys and pumping them full of burned up MJ and gave them brain damage their obvious conclusion was Mammals smoking weed='s brain damage.... when clearly after study was exposed shows that Mammals not breathing oxygen='s Brain damage.

I posted this on a different thread and I'm reposting here.

The main problems I have seen with LED lights are this.

Marketing- Too many people believe what they read immediately. Led lights can provide more of the spectrum the plants actually use and need as opposed to bombarding them with a full spectrum light. Yeah that's true they can if they were made by a combined effort of botanist and lighting manufacturer. In which case I'm sure many are not.

If you are selling something you don't need to care about anything except selling it...It doesn't need to work. Some people care some people do not.

I have not yet had a great deal of time to invest researching LED lighting effeciency yet but I will be working to build my own since the price of 1w 50000 hour light emmiting diodes are purchasable with pennies in comparison to buying a 300-400 diode setup for the price of a NICE car.....

Another main concern I would have when purchasing a LED setup is that if each light in the fixture is just RED (650nm) and BLUE(450nm) waves then I forsee an immediate problem where are the RED(649nm) and BLUE(452nm) Waves coming from? OR since I am a human and with out a spectrometer I will see no difference between 460 NM and 450 NM lightwaves, they will look blue to me eitheway.

(Speculation) As a lighting manufacturer I may be able to produce lighting arrays much cheaper by only focusing on 2 wavelengths and then paying my marketting division to do it's job by claiming I use a better spectrum than competitors when clearly I do not.

(Fact) Thylakoids in chlorophyl are aggitated by more than just 2 specific wavelengths of light. There are also two(discovered) photosystems which carry on seperate processes one requiring <680nm and the other taking in 700nm wavelength light. Which means more energy production when shot with a range of light than just by a wavelength. Which is probably why HID lighting works the way it does, Yeah it shoots a shit ton of light at the plant that the plant doesn't care about it. But it isn't limiting the plant down to only 2 wavelengths of light that it needs or doesn't need for that mater depending on who you buy from.

I have read many many reports thusfar in the begining of my research to suggest that most people who have had bad LED lighting experiences are just victims of good marketing.
 
Do you guys trust High Times Magazine or are they full of shit two?
http://hightimes.com/microsites/led/information.inc.php

You guys are not saying much anymore....Don't write a check your butt can't cash hey!
Without measuring the sugar in the tomatoes I declare that article a waste of time. We're talking about growing fruit here not growing stems and leaves. Take a botany class or just stop posting. So what, the plants made some tomatoes and peppers, but have you ever watched tomatoes and peppers grow? They will grow out of concrete lay dead looking on the ground in colorado and still produce tomatoes that are pretty poor quality but produce them in the worst conditions nonetheless. We want facts, you're fighting light vs light. I'm fighting for information, if you don't have it don't talk. Sorry to be a jerk but i'm getting damn tired of people posting links to stuff that are irrelevant or have absolutely no information within them.

Oh i had the wrong post quoted, either way the one i quoted is useless information anyhow so i'll leave it lol. but this is what i meant to quote. Same person said it.

http://www.maximumyield.com/article_...eatureVar=true
Maxium yeild Magazine had a great article on Led Vs HPS this month ...but maybe there full of shit to!! hahahhah
Make sure you read it a few times to make sure you understand what you just read...practice makes perfect !
 

ninjagaiden

Well-Known Member
Well im an LED grower and HPS grower. I love both for different reasons. In fact I am buying a ton more LED's at the moment just as a fun experiment.

Speaking of that, i have a 126w HydrogrowLED for sale if anyone is interested. Click the link in my sig ;)
 
So in otherwords LED is coming along but still not superior in all facets of the grow op right? From a scientific standpoint I can totally see LED being the only way to go a couple years from now, you know when they start making the LED's as high quality in their lights as they are in the Televisions .... think about it. The technology and knowhow is there right now, but the MONEY and TIME just hasn't caught up.

OH YEAH that could just be a good marketing scandle as well, hard to say when there are links covering the page to buy LED lights.... I mean go ahead and look at the "Scientific" measurements they take and just look at the one picture that says loud and clear "Marketing bitch". The picture is where it says 600w MH at 6 inches, and you can clearly see (I don't care who you are or how bias you are one light or the other) that is not 6 inches and there is nothing to make you believe that it is. It's a camera trick and I for one am never going to believe a word a salemen says when trying to justify purchasing their product. Even if it's true I'll wait until I can research it myself or replicate the study.

The lights they are selling there may viable but just look at their information they provide and you can see it's like watching fox news, a bunch of lies that they are trying to convince you are truths
 
The price of the led is still to high to be considered. We are after all, (at least I speak for myself) just trying to grow ourselves a bit of weed rather than look for a reliable dealer at a reasonable price. Of course we might just as well write to santa.

I grew a few plants. Or should I say I started them under leds. And then grew them up under hid. Leds are great. (Even the cheap ones. ) for starting your seedlings off. But unless you want to pay a high price just go for the hid.Anything except led as long you have minimum og 400watts.

:fire: I dont think all of the flaming on this site is helpfull in any form. Just good advice would befar more helpfull. I read through the led ¬experiment¬ pages and they do make sense. At a price.
 
why some people think that 250-400 watts are something to worry about. a fuckin computer is 450-600 watts minimum and i don't think anybody shut down his computer because of the fuckin' electric bill. Just a thought :grin:

A PC doesnt use all of its power all of the time. While at rest it hardly uses any.
Try using your computer to play a game online that uses both of your hard drives A high end graphics card and the dvd rom. If you can do that for 16-20 hours a day for a month then compare the prices..... Yes, it is a silly idea. It still wont use all of the 500watts of power from your supply. That is there for overload and spike protection. But generally your PC will only use a fraction of the power from your rated supply.
 
I am not an LED hater but right now they just dont make sense money wise.
Call me what you want but led prices are ridiculous and the penetration is just not there.So ill stick with my hid.

The price of the led is still to high to be considered. We are after all, (at least I speak for myself) just trying to grow ourselves a bit of weed rather than look for a reliable dealer at a reasonable price. Of course we might just as well write to santa.

I grew a few plants. Or should I say I started them under leds. And then grew them up under hid. Leds are great. (Even the cheap ones. ) for starting your seedlings off. But unless you want to pay a high price just go for the hid.Anything except led as long you have minimum og 400watts.

:fire: I dont think all of the flaming on this site is helpfull in any form. Just good advice would befar more helpfull. I read through the led ¬experiment¬ pages and they do make sense. At a price.
The price you would pay for a good high powered 300 watt ledlightyou can get a digital hid 600-1000 watt with a inline fan+filter+ cooltube and still have way more on the harvest end then spending the dough on a led fuck that.Hps until leds are way cheaper.
 
The price you would pay for a good high powered 300 watt ledlightyou can get a digital hid 600-1000 watt with a inline fan+filter+ cooltube and still have way more on the harvest end then spending the dough on a led fuck that.Hps until leds are way cheaper.
But the point was to save some on the grow. I bought LED to experiment. You didnt even try.
You can save some on your lighting by buying led`s to grow your seedlings up to 6-8 inches, then switch to "proper" lighting.
I am not recommending LED`s ,they are fairly useless for a full grow.
 
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