LED Noobs, STOP Buying China Junk

Just an observation from a novice here. But ever notice the 'cheap led bashers' always say they have tried them and know from experience it's no good? Which I give you credit for not speaking on something you don't know about.
I have what is deemed by this community as 'Chinese junk.' I'm not here to say its equal to the us made stuff. Just go easy on people who buy it as a starting point. Like most of you claim, 'you tried em.' Don't get all up in arms when other people try them. That's all. No one wants to hear they wasted their money. And a novice who gets told that doesn't really feel good about it when you start going off on their new purchase.
A lot of us don't have the time or knowledge to ever really understand the science behind it all. I'd love to buy an Area 51 one day. Just wasn't happening at this point in my life. Doesn't mean I'm a bad person and I can't come have constructive dialog on the boards, right?
For what it's worth, my Chinese junk is growing some nice looking nugs right now, a lot better than I was expecting after the experts told me I wasted all my money. Thanks guys

DutchHaze said:

For what it's worth, my Chinese junk is growing some nice looking nugs right now, a lot better than I was expecting after the experts told me I wasted all my money. Thanks guys

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That's all that matters D'Haze; growing dank buds and proving experts wrong!

I think some of that Chinese junk isn't all bad. I had one that got almost 1/2 gpw. It was supposed to be a 300W muti spectrum, it only consumed 88W. I got over 1 oz. from it. It was kind of impressive for what it was.

Ive used cheap chinese apollos when I first started with led's. I now use inda gro induction /led, area 51 led and amare tech led.

Bottom line cheap chinese lights will work and do the job. They will use more watts to cover the same area and yield the same results as high end led lights. 155w area 51 covers the same as a 270w apollo led. The chinese companies also don't hold up their warranties. If you are lucky they will send you the parts to fix it yourself which takes about a month to receive. You will be very lucky if the chinese light makes it to one year. Most fail between 2-4 months. High end led's have great warranties and customer service. High end led's will go years without any issue and spectral depreciation. Chinese companies use knock off epistar and epiled. low bin low photon output. High end led's use cree top bin and nichia top bin diodes. Which are top of the line and have the highest photon output.

this is all fact...

People can spend their money how ever they want. What bothers me about these low quality panels is people buying them without doing proper research into LED and then when the light fails or gives a poor result they tell everybody that LEDs suck. Some people are lazy about getting informed and some are duped by false claims and out right lies made by the sellers and most fall into the category of who knew there was so much to learn about LED before buying.

^i don't doubt any of that. I haven't really read every single thread on here so correct me if I wrong...but when you say things like 'brand X uses top bin, brand Y uses bottom bin' do the 'Chinese supporters' (for lack if a better term) ever try to tell you it's not 'fact'? What I'm seeing is more of a response like 'ya but, I still grow nice buds' rather than 'nah you're lying.'
It'd just be nice if someone could A:start a thead without being accused of being a salesman from that company, and B:not be told what they have is junk and they wasted their money.
I actually did a bit of reading reviews and what not on here before buying my panel. I went to the websites of the high end panels and was very impressed, then you see the cost and it's more than a months mortgage payment. Can't speak for everyone but I'm sure most would love to buy those panels. Just can't. I'm not seeing people say 'Chinese brand is BETTER than Area 51.' The general defense is 'but you can still grow nice weed.'
I don't know man, maybe I'm way off. But there doesn't seem to be a middle of the road panel. It's either you spend a grand on the good stuff, or it's crap. I tried findin a middle ground. I was told my panel is shit by the one side, and 'that'll grow nice weed' by the other side. And it kinda sucks. I'd love to converse with some knowledgeable people about my specific panel, but it's clear they ain't got time for that. I don't even like to mention what brand I got. It's like the Berlin Wall has divided this whole led community.
All the while my shitty panel is working well so far. But don't worry, I've been told a few times now it's going to break and I'll need a miracle to get it fixed. I get it.

The problem with chinese companies is they have zero quality control. They cut corners where ever they can to lower cost of build and sale price. They also try to get the most watts per dollar. Which is a bad thing,. They drive their low quality led's to almost max. 3w led's being driven at 2.6 - 2.8w. Driving them harder makes them fail sooner than later. A51 for example drives their 3w to 1.8w and their 5w to 2.7w . Driving them softer makes them last longer. Plus using quality diodes and drivers, fans, and heat sinks.

Bin #'s is not a fad or statement of such. Higher bin diodes produce more photons and more lumens per watt than lower bin diodes. As of now there really isn't middle of the road led panel. There's quality then crap. Building quality is costly too. The best way to go is with cobs for the diy-er. Soon a51, apache , hans etc... will be the middle of the road and cobs will be the top end lights. RIght now no companies are utilizing cobs except for one. I will be day viewing that light in my thread next week.


Actually there is a middle of the road for quality. But they're more costly than top end lights. california light works, black dog, advanced led are middle of the road and cost far more than a51 and apache

Like lots of people, I can't afford the premium panels either. I started off with shitty panels(black star 100W->amazon advanced knockoff DS100->advanced real DS100->Black Dog BD240U) and after each grow, I took the money I saved from not having to buy weed and put it toward the next, better light. I got lucky and none of them broke completely during a grow...my BD did have a couple diodes burn out at the end, but it was under warranty and they repaired it, no problem. I still sold it after that on ebay though, and put that money towards COBs. It's been nice seeing how things improve as you step up to better equipment and really eye-opening to grow with the COBs.

In the end though, it seems like it would have been better if I hadn't had to waste a couple years to get the lights I wanted, and instead just saved up and started with better lights, but tbh the options were a lot more limited back then. If you can get a good price on the cheaper lights on ebay like @FrozenChozen , then by all means pick one up, but don't expect too much from it. In the end, your goal should be to get rid of those lights as soon as you can and replace them with something better.

DutchHaze said:

Can't speak for everyone but I'm sure most would love to buy those panels. Just can't.

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The usual recommendation is to buy ceramic metal hilide CMH, you get more light per watt than the Chinese epi-whatever brands. Use that until you can get a better LED.

In some cases (like small grow areas) CMH isn't an option. A Chinese light would be a better choice than CFL. Maybe similar to T5HO.

I don't think I'd spend $400 on larger Chinese panels. I'd go CMH. But, for the $100-$200 lights to cover one plant with 90-180 watts, I think it's a reasonable way to get involved in LED (as long as the buyer accepts the limitations of gen1 technology, cheap build quality, etc.).

I would also recommend CMH over a low quality panel and have done that more than a few times. People also don't realize how quickly the pay back can be when you buy quality LED. When I bought top bin COBs it cost me under $300 for enough to take care of one plant,that one plant yielded around 50% more,by just changing the light source I got three extra zips from the same set up which more than covered the upgrade cost in one cycle. Depending on how much of a upgrade your doing it pays for itself very quickly.

fact: almost all panels are made in china, a handful aren't but they're all very expensive -simply overpriced actually.
Some people grow for themselves, don't have cash sitting around from selling. So chinese LEDs are efficient for them as far as cost etc.
I've used panels from Mars- Hydro for example and was impressed. But even they are expensive when compared with HPS.

mc130p said:

Looks like you've got quite a bit of supplemental lighting. I stand by my statement that those panels are crap.

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Have you actually any personal experience with any? Noticed most of the haters have zero actual experience..just nothing better to do.

Goldy said:

fact: almost all panels are made in china, a handful aren't but they're all very expensive -simply overpriced actually.

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One way or another you'll pay. With a Chinese epi-whatever light you'll pay for

1. More electricity to produce less light,
2. Higher cooling costs (if summer),
3. More real estate cost (less grams/sq. ft) unless you increase the costs of 1 & 2.
4. Warranty claims will probably be disappointing.
5. The light will be "disposable." No upgrade path. Reduced lifespan from running diodes harder.

As you said, there may be reasons to defer the up-front cost by accepting those longer-term costs. I wouldn't fault anyone for making that choice. (I've bought a couple Chinese epi-whatever lights. They're not bad.).

But, an A51 (or similar high-efficiency light) will pay for itself in the first grow. (An extra 30g at $4g wholesale is $120. Easily pays for the RW-75's expense compared to a comparable 130w actual Chinese epi-whatever light. After that first grow it's pure profit (in the sense of reduced electricity, real estate, cooling and product to sell if you're doing that.). Plus, you enjoy domestic support, a brand that likely concerned with its reputation, replacement parts at cost, an upgrade path, etc.

The only downside I see buying high-quality is how technology is changing so fast. A high-quality fixture is a long-term investment. A51's warranty says upgrade parts will be available at cost. That reduces the risk of being left behind (the expense of catching up). There haven't been any upgrades available yet. I imagine next year's 10w chips will be enough of a change to warrant an upgrade being available.

az2000 said:

(An extra 30g at $4g wholesale is $120. Easily pays for the RW-75's expense compared to a comparable 130w actual Chinese epi-whatever light. After that first grow it's pure profit (in the sense of reduced electricity, real estate, cooling and product to sell if you're doing that.).

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Are licensed growers really only making around $4 a gram by making "donations" through dispensaries? I'm sure there's profit to be gained on the growers part but in my experience, most times anything by the jar was $10 and above a gram at the joints I've checked into, meaning the grower is making less than half of the the total revenue. I'm sure it can be justified but still... doesn't seem fair at the moment.

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AquariusPanta said:

Are licensed growers really only making around $4 a gram by making "donations" through dispensaries? I'm sure there's profit to be gained on the growers part but in my experience, most times anything by the jar was $10 and above a gram at the joints I've checked into, meaning the grower is making less than half of the the total revenue. I'm sure it can be justified but still... doesn't seem fair at the moment.

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$4 a gram maybe for outdoor that isn't crap. Not at the dispensary where I used to work here's a link from weedmaps https://weedmaps.com/dispensaries/california/san-fernando-santa-clarita/420-for-the-people. You so right AquariusP.

REALSTYLES said:

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$4 a gram maybe for outdoor that isn't crap. Not at the dispensary where I used to work here's a link from weedmaps https://weedmaps.com/dispensaries/california/san-fernando-santa-clarita/420-for-the-people. You so right AquariusP.

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So the prices on that site were sort of high IMO. Being a youngster and all, I always could score square deals as I had a great selection of places to go to.

Real, you mentioned that you worked there before. Did you grow for the organization/business during that time? Who was getting the better cut of the deal, the host(s) or the grower(s)?

AquariusPanta said:

So the prices on that site were sort of high IMO. Being a youngster and all, I always could score square deals as I had a great selection of places to go to.

Real, you mentioned that you worked there before. Did you grow for the organization/business during that time? Who was getting the better cut of the deal, the host(s) or the grower(s)?

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I was paid great weekly free bud and food and $5 for every clone sold that I made. But he didn't want to fix shit and he didn't even know how to grow. The last guy before me really sucked, 1 grow every 6 months and had 3 flower rooms. Before I quit I was pulling every month. 1 month 20+ and ech other months 5 lbs. The 20+ was the 10k room, the others 2 and 4k.

AquariusPanta said:

Are licensed growers really only making around $4 a gram by making "donations" through dispensaries? I'm sure there's profit to be gained on the growers part but in my experience, most times anything by the jar was $10 and above a gram at the joints I've checked into, meaning the grower is making less than half of the the total revenue. I'm sure it can be justified but still... doesn't seem fair at the moment.

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Licensed growers? lol the guys who are making real money are pushing the limit and if they get caught they deal with it(go to jail),but not me. I'm allowed to grow 99 plants and possess 6lbs of dried flowers by California health and safety Sb 215 and Sb 420

You should reread california state law. State law supersedes county ordinance. [This also works in your favor when you live in a county that tries to prosecute you for possession or cultivation.]

Per sb420:
You can cultivate 12 immature plants and 6 mature. You can possess up to 8 oz of dried processed flowers.

If you are not compliant with state law you are taking a risk. It is up to you to evaluate that risk but @ 99plants/6# you are violating state law and sb420

REALSTYLES said:

Licensed growers? lol the guys who are making real money are pushing the limit and if they get caught they deal with it(go to jail),but not me. I'm allowed to grow 99 plants and possess 6lbs of dried flowers by California health and safety Sb 215 and Sb 420

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nogod_ said:

You should reread california state law. State law supersedes county ordinance. [This also works in your favor when you live in a county that tries to prosecute you for possession or cultivation.]

Per sb420:
You can cultivate 12 immature plants and 6 mature. You can possess up to 8 oz of dried processed flowers.

If you are not compliant with state law you are taking a risk. It is up to you to evaluate that risk but @ 99plants/6# you are violating state law and sb420

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No your wrong. I've been sweated before but I had my state card and a doctor's rec.

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That states I can grow up to 99 plants and possess 6 pounds of dried flowers

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