LED Noobs, STOP Buying China Junk

280 watts of Cree & Osram. One panel is 4 years old and the other 2 years old, both virtually never had a day off and not a single problem. Yes it's a bit crowned, ill-planning.

MightyMike530 said:

Yes per plant, are you also mud1m?

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Id like to see a plant with almost a pound on it. That fucker would be a monster!

REALSTYLES said:

Not to bust your bubble but US made led lights fail as well. I have a buddy who's been using lush lighting leds and I was about to get one through him because he can get them for half price $650 instead of $1399 so I gave him $650 to get me one. After 2 weeks he gave me my money back and said the lights he bought one of them failed and he had to wait 2 weeks for the replacement. The only reason he got the leds half price is because he is friends with the owner of DNA

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You grow and then donate to the dispensary?...or you run their in-house grow? Two different things. Many of us do the first...few us do the second.

You are trying to say that what we have tested over time here at the LED section is wrong. When in fact your are clearly uneducated about the industry by saying american panels fail, and quoted lush...which every active led member knows the truth about.
If someone has valid information and present it in a non spamming manner... supplying pic, facts(yield/area), specs, and lastly your opinion based on your actual use of the product, then they will be taken with more credibility and respect in return. After all that has been critiqued by some of the bests in the business of led growing.

What is it that would make a china light a success???....IMO comparing to the HPS light it's claiming to replace in yield over the same area. Anything else is just opinions and qualitative defending.

The knowledgeable group in this forum know more about led's and their capabilities than any grow light manufacturer out. So specs of the unit will be devoured by this group. So unless the light your are standing by is one of the best on paper, only a completed and real time(close to) documented grow is going to give you anything to talk about that can't be proved wrong by specs and actual science.

Greengenes707 said:

You grow and then donate to the dispensary?...or you run their in-house grow? Two different things. Many of us do the first...few us do the second.

You are trying to say that what we have tested over time here at the LED section is wrong. When in fact your are clearly uneducated about the industry by saying american panels fail, and quoted lush...which every active led member knows the truth about.
If someone has valid information and present it in a non spamming manner... supplying pic, facts(yield/area), specs, and lastly your opinion based on your actual use of the product, then they will be taken with more credibility and respect in return. After all that has been critiqued by some of the bests in the business of led growing.

What is it that would make a china light a success???....IMO comparing to the HPS light it's claiming to replace in yield over the same area. Anything else is just opinions and qualitative defending.

The knowledgeable group in this forum know more about led's and their capabilities than any grow light manufacturer out. So specs of the unit will be devoured by this group. So unless the light your are standing by is one of the best on paper, only a completed and real time(close to) documented grow is going to give you anything to talk about that can't be proved wrong by specs and actual science.

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I do both and yes I'm new to leds so what. I'm here to show people that not all Chinese leds are junk lets stick to the subject and Lush claims to be American made checkout they're facebook page.

REALSTYLES said:

I do both and yes I'm new to leds so what. I'm here to show people that not all Chinese leds are junk lets stick to the subject and Lush claims to be American made checkout they're facebook page.

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we all here know lush is crap and eshine rebranded ... Kushington farms already came and left. None of us fell for his b.s. They used to claim to use cree until cree found out about their bullshit claims.

Hosebomber said:

One last time cause my epeen needs another 2". The SR Engine Family includes SR18D,iSR18DE,SR20D,iSR20DE, and SR20DET. Impreza/WRX EJ20's are all aluminum alloy blocks.

Psuagro, I did see that Lush removed the Cree claim from most of their site... maybe those places left are just errors! The grows with A51 are everywhere here... but there isn't a single comparison grow to be found. While there are multiple comparison grows between every other company, not one with Area 51. If they are changing their ratios and panels/ adding new products, why would they not want comps done. If you can't find a single grow comp with their product on the one site that advocates for their product, how is "There is nothing that anyone can prove that's not been proven already." a valid statement. It gives the appearance of avoidance or hiding the results (only closed/unfinished comp grows on this site perpetuates that). Feel free to step in and prove me wrong EH.

I believe Lush Lighting are Eshine rebrands as well but I have no proof to that.

Any company that claims all Bridgelux and Cree diodes and list a 660nm wavelength are straight up liers. Neither company makes a deep red or near IR (730nm).

Pet, those reasons are why I mentioned TopLED/LG, they are stocking in warehouses in the US, UK and Australia. I have only heard of 2 failures a fan and a 100% new COB test panel and both where replaced in less than a week. Yes, with most albida or direct Chinese companies shipping and repair/replacement times/cost are extremely high. I have always made my own panels until a few weeks ago when I had them customize one for me. There are literally hundreds of grows with them on the 420 site so I got one of their standard spectrums as well to test against. I killed my clones in transplant so I haven't tested it yet, but I will be soon.

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AHHHH yes it seems that lush lighting has removed any cree involvement in their product line now!! didn't check for a while, sorry about that. It was inevitable anyways they still mention NASA and my favorite all-time marketing line: "lush lighting is the first company to stabilize the production of highly energized photons in grow lights" lol

What does A51 have left to prove though?? I have seen enough grows to say that they work very well on cannabis. I know of zero catastrophic failures on their cree lights so far. Their spectra's basically stay the same it's just the emitter efficiencies that improve now. EH won't add 660nm yet, so it will stay 100% cree till IDK??

Surprised you went the Topled way, thought you where better that ....................ha.............. enjoy your lights friend

be safe grower and start from seed for better transplant health

I rocked some Mars II 5x80 panels and they did just fine... especially getting 3 lights for the cost of one of the "popular" brands.. only issues I have with them is the fans are extremely loud. But other than issues that I caused with my grow, the lights grew some very dense nugs.

My new Intelligent Gro panels I am testing are working out great as well.

PSUAGRO. said:

..What does A51 have left to prove though?? I have seen enough grows to say that they work very well on cannabis. I know of zero catastrophic failures on their cree lights so far. Their spectra's basically stay the same it's just the emitter efficiencies that improve now. EH won't add 660nm yet, so it will stay 100% cree till IDK??

Surprised you went the Topled way, thought you where better that

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We all know that any pos panel or wally world screw in bulb will grow plants (Pet has proved that time and again). What I have yet to see is Area 51's performance against any other brand... with all things being equal, is it worth double or triple the price to get the Cree diodes? Are their lights and their spectra better than anyone elses? I haven't seen any panel have a catastrophic failure since the days of the 60 watt UFOs. (other than when I tested thermal runaways and max amperage) A fan here and a driver there... but you will always have failures in electronics regardless of brand or quality (just to a lesser extent). EH has already said he used Chinese drivers and fans. Those are the main failure points in 99.9% of all panels.

I had TopLED make a panel with my spectra because I think I am finally close to my goal. I want to see if diode choice, heat management, and driver selection of a handmade panel transfers over to the cheap diode mass produced low cost panel. What better way to do that then have a mass produced panel with your spectrum. I can also test it against their "standard spectrum" and view my results in comparison to a large number of other grows. I have yet to find ANY manufacturer that will make a panel 100% the way I want, even If I CAD the whole thing myself and do the circuit layout.

Icemud420 said:

I rocked some Mars II 5x80 panels and they did just fine... especially getting 3 lights for the cost of one of the "popular" brands.. only issues I have with them is the fans are extremely loud. But other than issues that I caused with my grow, the lights grew some very dense nugs.

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Nice grow, BUT how much actual wattage do those mars panels use??? Look up a couple of posts^^^ at digimidgi run, almost the same area using only 280watts of QUALITY diodes un-scrogged and will pull more weight with less wattage. It would take 130watts from 2 hans panels to produce your results in your grow area==== now do you understand why people recommend quality panels???

Hosebomber said:

We all know that any pos panel or wally world screw in bulb will grow plants (Pet has proved that time and again). What I have yet to see is Area 51's performance against any other brand... with all things being equal, is it worth double or triple the price to get the Cree diodes? Are their lights and their spectra better than anyone elses? I haven't seen any panel have a catastrophic failure since the days of the 60 watt UFOs. (other than when I tested thermal runaways and max amperage) A fan here and a driver there... but you will always have failures in electronics regardless of brand or quality (just to a lesser extent). EH has already said he used Chinese drivers and fans. Those are the main failure points in 99.9% of all panels.

I had TopLED make a panel with my spectra because I think I am finally close to my goal. I want to see if diode choice, heat management, and driver selection of a handmade panel transfers over to the cheap diode mass produced low cost panel. What better way to do that then have a mass produced panel with your spectrum. I can also test it against their "standard spectrum" and view my results in comparison to a large number of other grows. I have yet to find ANY manufacturer that will make a panel 100% the way I want, even If I CAD the whole thing myself and do the circuit layout.

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Your kidding right???? we see current chinese panel failures on here quite often................seriously, not joking

A51 pricing reflects their limited lifetime warranty/diodes used/upgradeable components/US assembled & based service/profit ...........what's price do you expect from that Hosebomber???

You're missing the point Pet, we all know that just about any light will grow a plant. I was using you as a name that people know have grow with tons of different random light types that have all produced. Yes some are better than the others, but are they worth the extra cost? I was asking for the comparison and stating that they DO have to prove the cost is worth it. Without seeing a single comparison grow to completion on this site (which is his main supporters), I'm not seeing what has already been proven before according to his site.

I seriously haven't seen a fixture have a catastrophic diode failure in a long time... but like any electronic component, there are always failures, just to what extent and what percent of components. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. We all know those that are not satisfied with a product will always voice their thoughts the loudest.

His panels are not US assembled, he buys the diodes in the US and his panels ship from the US. In other words, he supplies the diodes and specs to the manufacturer, they build and assemble them and ship them back to him, where he holds them until selling. I have spoken with several companies that will do this. Just don't ask them to use 2 different brands of diodes on the same board. As for what price I expect, well that depends on how they perform against their competitors. I'm not saying his or any other high cost panel is crap or doesn't work or anything else, just that I would like to see a side by side grow all other things being equal without the thread getting closed or deleted. If there is a 50% increase in growth/yield than it deserves to cost 50% more... maybe even 75% more due to lower chance of part failure, shit it might even be worth twice as much because it uses a US brand diode. However, to say everything has already been proven without any test results is a far stretch.

PSUAGRO. said:

Nice grow, BUT how much actual wattage do those mars panels use??? Look up a couple of posts^^^ at digimidgi run, almost the same area using only 280watts of QUALITY diodes un-scrogged and will pull more weight with less wattage. It would take 130watts from 2 hans panels to produce your results in your grow area==== now do you understand why people recommend quality panels???

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draw per panel measured with kill-a-watt was 168w-179w. So in total about 525w. Prior to this I was running 400w CMH and a 600w HPS in the same space and yield was the same, bud were just as dense, and I saved 1/2 off my power bill.

I don't know if I get what your trying to say about "quality LEDs".

If you have 2 LEDs, one cheap and one expensive, at 660nm. ... a photon from each chip carries the same energy, however since plants produce photosynthesis by electron transfer, it is the number of photons the absorb, not the energy of the photon. So with that being said, the amount of photon's hitting the plant is what is key to driving photosynthesis. *typically it takes 4-8 or more photons to fixate one molecule of CO2. With that being said, if you have the 2 chips, one cheap and one expensive, the one that emits more quantity of photons per second would be more beneficial to the plants, hence, how hard that chip is driven. So with the Hans, looks like roughtly they drive their chips around 2.08 vs the Mars II I have drive their chips at 2.25 roughly. So with that being said, more photon's are being emitted from the mars II vs the Hans...right?

One chip puts out a lot more photons than the other for same watt...
Less watts plus more photons. Then when you get fancy..you use the good led and drive it even more than the mars

= but whooping of cheap led

Positivity said:

One chip puts out a lot more photons than the other for same watt...
Less watts plus more photons. Then when you get fancy..you use the good led and drive it even more than the mars

= but whooping of cheap led

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do you mind sharing the source of your information, not being cocky, but it is relitively different from anything I have read. I am interested in learning more if you would share your source.

Hosebomber said:

We all know that any pos panel or wally world screw in bulb will grow plants (Pet has proved that time and again). What I have yet to see is Area 51's performance against any other brand... with all things being equal, is it worth double or triple the price to get the Cree diodes? Are their lights and their spectra better than anyone elses? I haven't seen any panel have a catastrophic failure since the days of the 60 watt UFOs. (other than when I tested thermal runaways and max amperage) A fan here and a driver there... but you will always have failures in electronics regardless of brand or quality (just to a lesser extent). EH has already said he used Chinese drivers and fans. Those are the main failure points in 99.9% of all panels.

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Jeff was supposed to fund an Apache V A51 but dicktucked the challenge after suggesting it.... however A51 has had many grows documented and has consistently been shown to bring the goods...

do you mind sharing the source of your information, not being cocky, but it is relitively different from anything I have read. I am interested in learning more if you would share your source.

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Show me a cheap deep red that outputs 720mw at 700ma like a Philips luxeon or oslon ssl. With bin numbers and packaging to back it up.

Hard to even know what the REAL specs of the cheaper lights are. My built in eye sensor tell me not very bright..and my hand sensor says really really hot...but that could just be the cooling issues some have

spazatak said:

Jeff was supposed to fund an Apache V A51 but dicktucked the challenge after suggesting it.... however A51 has had many grows documented and has consistently been shown to bring the goods...

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That's exactly my point. I can show you grows with nearly every panel ever made. Comparison grows are where you tell the difference between panels abilities and the growers. You can Find Cidly Vs TopLED, Blackdog Vs Apollo, etc etc etc but never Area51 Vs anything. That's what needs to be proven.

Positivity said:

Show me a cheap deep red that outputs 720mw at 700ma like a Philips luxeon or oslon ssl. With bin numbers and packaging to back it up.

Hard to even know what the REAL specs of the cheaper lights are. My built in eye sensor tell me not very bright..and my hand sensor says really really hot...but that could just be the cooling issues some have

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I get it now, so the better the efficiency, the less heat and more photon's output at a given power, even within the same wavelength.

Hosebomber said:

You're missing the point Pet, we all know that just about any light will grow a plant. I was using you as a name that people know have grow with tons of different random light types that have all produced. Yes some are better than the others, but are they worth the extra cost? I was asking for the comparison and stating that they DO have to prove the cost is worth it. Without seeing a single comparison grow to completion on this site (which is his main supporters), I'm not seeing what has already been proven before according to his site.

I seriously haven't seen a fixture have a catastrophic diode failure in a long time... but like any electronic component, there are always failures, just to what extent and what percent of components. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. We all know those that are not satisfied with a product will always voice their thoughts the loudest.

His panels are not US assembled, he buys the diodes in the US and his panels ship from the US. In other words, he supplies the diodes and specs to the manufacturer, they build and assemble them and ship them back to him, where he holds them until selling. I have spoken with several companies that will do this. Just don't ask them to use 2 different brands of diodes on the same board. As for what price I expect, well that depends on how they perform against their competitors. I'm not saying his or any other high cost panel is crap or doesn't work or anything else, just that I would like to see a side by side grow all other things being equal without the thread getting closed or deleted. If there is a 50% increase in growth/yield than it deserves to cost 50% more... maybe even 75% more due to lower chance of part failure, shit it might even be worth twice as much because it uses a US brand diode. However, to say everything has already been proven without any test results is a far stretch.

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So you work at A51 to know this is 100% correct?? Just because others do it, doesn't mean he does it as well. Be careful of your assumptions.

yes metal shavings in the casings/heatsinks(zap!lol), fried modules, even melted cob/reflector arrays,questionable grounding/wiring/etc..... have been reported here

Icemud420 said:

I get it now, so the better the efficiency, the less heat and more photon's output at a given power, even within the same wavelength.

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Bingo....................