Led vs hps
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NoGutsGrower
Well-Known Member
why keep it closer than 6inches away? with it a bit away it gives it a better foot print to cover all my plants! I have the central air in my house hooked up to my hoods. I use a portable a/c unit for myself
hoss12781
Well-Known Member
What everyone is failing to take into comparison is that the Blackstar 500 is actually only producing somewhere in the neighborhood of 300w of output. They, like many led manufacturers advertise the chipset capacity of their lights. LED grow lights are not driven to full capacity as this would fry the chips out quickly. A blackstar 500 is probably comparable to a 600w hps light. To replace two 400w hps lights + 400w CFL side lighting I bought a total of 690 watts of actual led output (several lights from different companies). If I were to use the total chip capacity I have a total of 925w of chipsets - they aren't being fired at that rate to make them last. The only company I have seen that advertises total output is GLH (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), for example their 100w ufo which I own, its a great ufo. It uses 45 3w diodes driven to about 2.1w of actual output. The most important thing anyone can do when buying an led light is do their research and buy from a reputable company. I'm not saying GLH is the best, I have lights from several companies and all I know for sure is don't buy one off ebay from a no name brand lacking a substantial warranty to back up your purchase.
Anyone who's used a quality LED light and has over two years of growing experience can tell you they do work and work well. They'll take longer to flower but the buds will have better trich production - yield will suffer - from what I've seen in my garden about 10% less than hps. A sacrifice I was willing to make being all about the quality and a home hobby gardener who didn't have or want to invest in expensive heat removal. Made sense for me.
Anyone who's used a quality LED light and has over two years of growing experience can tell you they do work and work well. They'll take longer to flower but the buds will have better trich production - yield will suffer - from what I've seen in my garden about 10% less than hps. A sacrifice I was willing to make being all about the quality and a home hobby gardener who didn't have or want to invest in expensive heat removal. Made sense for me.
del66666
Well-Known Member
surely the extra you spent on expensive led lights is much more than you would have spent on heat removal.............
PuffPuffPassed
Well-Known Member
The thing that most people dont understand, mostly due to lack of knowledge because they aren't electricians, is that power draw can be less than the power output. It can draw 300w yet put out more watts of light than its drawing.. not to mention comparable companies sell 300w units for $800+
hoss12781
Well-Known Member
Not really man, lets do some theoretical math. My lights are under a 3 year warranty, I spent close to $1,000 on lighting and am saving roughly $30 a month on electricity times 36 months of gaurenteed operation is $1080 right there. Not to mention I would have had to replace my HPS bulbs every 6 months or so - I was running plant max bulbs at roughly 40 bucks a pop times two lights so 80 bucks every six months - 160 a year times 3 years is another $480. I grow autos so in order to maintain lumenus efficicacy six months of 20 on 4 off is about right to keep it fresh under hps. I was also running 4 105w clfs as side lighting that were $20 bucks a pop and last at the most about a year so there is another $80 a year - $240 over a 3 year period.
Then I'd have to buy venting and fans to make sure I wasn't heat stressing my plants like I was without it so if you look at the big picture I did save some money.
Plus the kicker - I sold one of my digital GYO 400w ballasts and air cooled hood to a good friend for $60, it was less than a year old and burned out on him after only 3 months of use. Ballasts do fail - I know GYO is a shitty brand but still, less than a year. That would have had to have been replaced as well.
So I spent about a grand and growing perpetually over the next three years will have covered my investment and then some in power/bulb replacement savings, I get better buds than I did with my hps set up the way it was running and only sacrifice a small bit of quantity which isn't a big deal to me since I'm not commercial.
Even if I did over estimate my electricity savings (I was looking at what my bill was this time last year for the last three months and got an avg savings of $30 per) I'm still there if I was only saving $20 a month plus bulb replacement costs ect. Given what they can do with spectrums it will beat out HID in the long run. What I can't figure out is why all the people are on the hate wagon around here.
The savings, of course, is only valid assuming the warranty is there and backed up which from my research I believe the companies I purchased from will still be around and stand by their product. The most important thing one can do when considering LED lighting is research the hell out of the company you are considering.
hoss12781
Well-Known Member
stepdown transformers I get it. Still that light is not throwing out 500w
del66666
Well-Known Member
hps bulbs are cheap.........my ballasts have 5 year warranty..........i only run my lights in 12 hour shifts so electric is cheap enough.............i run a 400 and 600 in a cab 1.2m x 1m x 1.4m hi with no cool hoods just ruck fans and heat is no problem...........you got some pics of your plants?
hoss12781
Well-Known Member
To each his own, I'm just trying to show people that quality made led lights are a viable option and in the long run similar in costs to running a ventilated high wattage hps/cfl set up. Plant pics per your request. Since I'm growing autos I do have to keep the lights on more than 12 hours a day (keep mine on 23 hours a day now) or you'll wind up with half assed plants. The pics of the flowering plants and nuggets were from my first all led grow. My second all led grow is underway. The first two pics are plants at 3 weeks. When I broke it down leds made sense for me. I'm still getting close to 1.5 oz off each auto like I did with my hps/cfl set up.
In my experience (about 3.5 years of growing) both hps and led will grow good pot, I just don't see why we have to have a full on verbal brawl every time someone brings it up. By my math it was cheaper for me in the long run to do it this way when I took all the x factors into account. By almost any math it is equal over the long run if you have quality lights with a warranty. Plus I had nowhere to vent that wouldn't have been painfully obvious.
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sso
Well-Known Member
yeah, i agree with that, closer lamp = bigger buds, sure, but also = higher heat (louder fan noise) smaller footprint and fewer plants.
plus.
f.e 5 23w cfls about 6 inches from the plants, all the light intersecting because of the outward pointing star configuration they are in (though any configuration where the lights mingle and mix works)
is about 3-4 times more effective than the same 5 lights placed 1-2 inches away from those plants (with reflectors, so none of the lights have a chance to beef eachother up.)
any single light is going to create shadows.
and the closer it is, the more shadows you create.
so with a really close lamp, you do get the most intense light, but you also get the least amount of that light actually on the leaves. (and only the top)
while with the light further away, less intensity but more of the plant covered (and also penetrate further) and possibly more plants.
so its a question of balance. with a big light, getting it far enough away to get the best coverage and yet close enough to get as intense light as you can. (10 000 lumens is really the max, and 7000 really is enough unless you go for co2 (though then you can skip the extra fans, cause the extra heat is gonna help with co2 intake)
though some sativa varieties can do with up to 11 000 lumes, most varieties are indica and 7000 should be enough. (they do grow somewhat faster at 10 000 and bit faster over it, but the added mass is not worth the added heat, nor the lack of space worth the loss of footprintsize.
with multiple lights, the key is getting the lights to boost eachother up (the lights intermingling, lighting the same area)
without losing coverage at the same time
(and going for the least amount of shadows created)
del66666
Well-Known Member
i just vent into my house...........even helps keep the chill off the room in winter without putting heating on...........all good mate i respect other peoples way of growing...........still reckon hps 12-12 from seed would serve you better......heres a few i did 12-12 from seed.....
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del66666
Well-Known Member
no those are all normal reg or fem seeds...........all 12-12 from day 1..........quickest finish was around 10 weeks but it depends on srain...nearly all plants hit 2-4 oz dry each.......there are a few that dont of course.