Yes I understand what you are trying to accomplish but what really matters is quality and quantity of bud. From reading through this post, and the first set of pictures of results, I am a little disappointed. I was hoping all this "science" was going to blow the socks off of what everybody else is doing. I agree it is kind of cool but if my results are as good with my T5 setup using 6500K for vegging and 3000K for flowering why would I bother. (I also use CFL for side lighting)? Now are you saying that your results are substantially better using this method of dialing in PAR? And if you say yes in what ways have you seen a difference between this and your previous grows?
LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow
- Thread starter pr0fesseur
- Start date
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I am unable to provide before and afters as I have not had a completed grow with my BB (edit- and 100% Quantum bulbs). I had 4 nice plants going then an unexpected 90+ heat wave hit for a week. It took me several days to adjust my HPA system; the pod temps were in the ^80s, and so damaged my roots that by the time the plants recovered, they all flipped to males, so I pulled it. Also, they were short AFs. Nothing to compare to my new seeds.
I came across Pr0fs thread before starting this grow (~ 8 weeks ago). Since I have 8 each Quantum G/B bulbs, I bought a couple of bulbs to test the waters during grow and flower. I bought 2 AquaSuns and 2 Red Suns. I added the 2 AquaSuns during veg, to be replaced with Red Suns during bloom.
During this grow I had other issues with my HPA (it is very tweaky), so last week I moved 4 of the plants from HPA to different methods (F& D + Air Pot). Those plants have really taken off, and so far blowing the doors off my recovering HPA plant, but it too is coming along now that I have the system better dialed in. hth
I came across Pr0fs thread before starting this grow (~ 8 weeks ago). Since I have 8 each Quantum G/B bulbs, I bought a couple of bulbs to test the waters during grow and flower. I bought 2 AquaSuns and 2 Red Suns. I added the 2 AquaSuns during veg, to be replaced with Red Suns during bloom.
During this grow I had other issues with my HPA (it is very tweaky), so last week I moved 4 of the plants from HPA to different methods (F& D + Air Pot). Those plants have really taken off, and so far blowing the doors off my recovering HPA plant, but it too is coming along now that I have the system better dialed in. hth
UnderCurrentDWC
Active Member
Update: Day 4 under new light.
Observations:
I think I need to buy a carbon filter just for my veg room now =P... These things stink!
The plants now eat and drink like Hogs!
Definitive plant growth overnight.
Super strong well defined new plant growth standing straight up to the light.
Day1
Day4
Day 3: Super dark green healthy new leaves with fluorescent purple stems.
Observations:
I think I need to buy a carbon filter just for my veg room now =P... These things stink!
The plants now eat and drink like Hogs!
Definitive plant growth overnight.
Super strong well defined new plant growth standing straight up to the light.
Day1
Day4
Day 3: Super dark green healthy new leaves with fluorescent purple stems.
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
Well you obviously are new to this forum and i will give you the penny tour..
My grow was CONTROLLED
SUPERSOIL AND WATER..+LIGHT+Organic nutes... thats it.. no additives no bloom enhancers.. im not measuring nute comparative analysis so nutes DONT MATTER
My grow was NEVER about yield, i dont know how many time i have to explain this... there was 0 expectation of growth..
The scientific method demands i fail the first round.. and i didnt...not only did i not fail but with 0 effort i got my results... my grow was with 3 original seeds all different strains and genetics. one failed to sprout.. i was left with 2 plants. the strains DONT MATTER im not measuring what strains grow and how
you MUST read the entire thread to understand what im doing..
And im sorry you WILL NOT have the same reults using your 6500k and 3000k bulbs period. i have proved this point. time and time again. others on this forum will attest to the physical changes these lights provide to the plants OVERNIGHT! you cannot simply dismiss something because the results YOU WANT are not there... thats no way to make an educated observation.
if you have indeed taken the time to read this thread there are 2 grows here... just look at my pics verses others online both in plant health and rate of growth are substantially increased...
EVEN ON THE FIRST PAGE I outline my previous growth experience.
You cant measure 2 things at once in an experiment... you must find 1 thing to test. I chose to test the LIGHTING
You cannot measure speed and distance at the same time the laws of physics prevent you from doing so.
If this WAS about yield i would have stated this from day one i would have a dialed in grow with a strain i have previously grown and with something i KNOW the average yield on... and grown with the best nutes i an find and used 2x the lighting..... but its not...and i didnt....
Its obvious you have never done any real lab work or you would truly understand my position. Just your "science" comment proves your ignorance to what you learned in school, and to the fact that plants of different strain yield differently..
FOR EXAMPLE
Nevilles haze 12 weeks to flower about 25-30 gm dried even for a great grower... why you ask BECAUSE ITS THE MOST POTENT SHIT ON EARTH! thats why..
Big Bud average flowering 8 weeks yield 100+gm dried per plant but its garbage.... comparatively speaking...
so you tell me which plant has a higher yield, and which one would you rather smoke? EXACTLY!!!
people who grow for quantity or yield IMHO are sheer profit whores.. and care nothing for the industry or the medicine, or even what they give to others.
my 30gm sell for 5x what yours does because the QUALITY is better.. brokers favor quality EVERY TIME!
Here is a pick from Don Gin and Ton hes a masterfull grower here and an icon in the 600W grow club
Heres my leaves and canopy.... with LESS LUMENS!!!
MurshDawg
Active Member
So Sayeth thy Pr0fesseur. I have grown two grows this year using 6500k/3000k mixed. This run I have had the pleasure to try this method and It does work. I have noticed new growth on a daily. How long do you have to veg with your t5s to get decent size plants, Tyler (at least 3 ft)?Well you obviously are new to this forum and i will give you the penny tour..
My grow was CONTROLLED
SUPERSOIL AND WATER..+LIGHT+Organic nutes... thats it.. no additives no bloom enhancers.. im not measuring nute comparative analysis so nutes DONT MATTER
My grow was NEVER about yield, i dont know how many time i have to explain this... there was 0 expectation of growth..
The scientific method demands i fail the first round.. and i didnt...not only did i not fail but with 0 effort i got my results... my grow was with 3 original seeds all different strains and genetics. one failed to sprout.. i was left with 2 plants. the strains DONT MATTER im not measuring what strains grow and how
you MUST read the entire thread to understand what im doing..
And im sorry you WILL NOT have the same reults using your 6500k and 3000k bulbs period. i have proved this point. time and time again. others on this forum will attest to the physical changes these lights provide to the plants OVERNIGHT! you cannot simply dismiss something because the results YOU WANT are not there... thats no way to make an educated observation.
if you have indeed taken the time to read this thread there are 2 grows here... just look at my pics verses others online both in plant health and rate of growth are substantially increased...
EVEN ON THE FIRST PAGE I outline my previous growth experience.
You cant measure 2 things at once in an experiment... you must find 1 thing to test. I chose to test the LIGHTING
You cannot measure speed and distance at the same time the laws of physics prevent you from doing so.
If this WAS about yield i would have stated this from day one i would have a dialed in grow with a strain i have previously grown and with something i KNOW the average yield on... and grown with the best nutes i an find and used 2x the lighting..... but its not...and i didnt....
Its obvious you have never done any real lab work or you would truly understand my position. Just your "science" comment proves your ignorance to what you learned in school, and to the fact that plants of different strain yield differently..
FOR EXAMPLE
Nevilles haze 12 weeks to flower about 25-30 gm dried even for a great grower... why you ask BECAUSE ITS THE MOST POTENT SHIT ON EARTH! thats why..
Big Bud average flowering 8 weeks yield 100+gm dried per plant but its garbage.... comparatively speaking...
so you tell me which plant has a higher yield, and which one would you rather smoke? EXACTLY!!!
people who grow for quantity or yield IMHO are sheer profit whores.. and care nothing for the industry or the medicine, or even what they give to others.
my 30gm sell for 5x what yours does because the QUALITY is better.. brokers favor quality EVERY TIME!
Here is a pick from Don Gin and Ton hes a masterfull grower here and an icon in the 600W grow club
Heres my leaves and canopy.... with LESS LUMENS!!!
View attachment 1816701View attachment 1816702View attachment 1816705
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Photos as promised:
I am glad I moved some of the plants (ONE week ago!) from HPA to soil (now AP) and F & D, which is by far the easiest hydro method. If not for that I really wouldn't have a good idea what the impact of the aquarium bulbs are. Those plants have all doubled in height, as well as filling in with node branching. Instead of just using a pvc goose-neck to fill the F & D chamber, I decided to add some tubing lengths and drill holes along it. When the pump comes on it's like a mini- Bellagio water show, which further aerates the nutes just before hitting the lava rocks.
I am glad I moved some of the plants (ONE week ago!) from HPA to soil (now AP) and F & D, which is by far the easiest hydro method. If not for that I really wouldn't have a good idea what the impact of the aquarium bulbs are. Those plants have all doubled in height, as well as filling in with node branching. Instead of just using a pvc goose-neck to fill the F & D chamber, I decided to add some tubing lengths and drill holes along it. When the pump comes on it's like a mini- Bellagio water show, which further aerates the nutes just before hitting the lava rocks.
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
Glad to see that my logic is not wated MurshD you get my seal of approval!! I journaled your post!here's a little update. These bulbs are freaking amazing! Surely those with sound logic and reason have already came to this conclusion[video=youtube;_0e9uaQukus]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0e9uaQukus[/video]
"One fact well understood by observation, and well guided development, is worth a thousand times more than a thousand words" - The American Journal of Education, 1858.
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
You are obviously too stoned to see straight did you not see the buds from my last plants? do i have to repost pictures larger for you? take your 21 posts to a forum where your comment may seem intelligent... There are plenty of other people who are here to... whats that word oh ya "LEARN" somethning. and be objective...
1. existing independently of perception or an individual's conceptions: are there objective moral values?
2. undistorted by emotion or personal bias
3. of or relating to actual and external phenomena as opposed to thoughts, feelings, etc.
MurshDawg
Active Member
Well please feel free to stay tuned because I update my journal weekly and I look forward to showing how sound logic and objective science can lead one to better conclusions that tend to violate the common sense of the hoi polli.
Josh1r
Active Member
I just found this site advertising a new "State of the art" lighting system! Hah check it out im pretty impressed.. http://www.cyberbiota.com/index.html ps. This isn't me advertising the guy lol, just thought it was cool.
fssalaska
Well-Known Member
Anyone putting down LEDs I'm with you! never used T5s but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. lol but really I bought 2 UFOs sunshine 90 watts and a 150 watt that said it was a 240 watt blackstar and really think the results were crap.. I love my MH & HPS but may give T5s a try one day..View attachment 1101487View attachment 1101488View attachment 1101489View attachment 1101490View attachment 1101491
So when i decided to grow i started with a 400W hps and MH conversion bulb. I put up my tent and it was problem after problem. With the generous help from the people here i decided to throw away my setup and start from scratch. I purchased the Quantum Badboy 8 lamp T5. I started with the standard 6500k bulbs with some success. I wanted to buy an LED light but didnt have the money. So... i was at my buddies house and he has a LARGE aquarium and he showed me his bulbs..it clicked.. corals need light too and his lights produced the EXACT spectrum corals need to live and are capable of penetrating 3'+ of water. well corals and plants are very similar as they use the EXACT same light spectrum. Digging deeper i found bulbs that produce 410-460nm and 620-660 nm light.. That is also Exactly what LEDs put out..now putting one plus one together i decided to do a small test.. i bought 2 2' t5 lights ATI AND UVL Blue plus and Super Actinic. Explosive growth followed. i couldent believe my eyes. I was told on 4 different forums that actinic bulbs DO NOT WORK FOR plants boy were they really wrong!. i ahve since gone 100% T5 with various bulbs producing only yhe light spectrum that plants need. As you can see my plants are doing AMAZING for being grown with Actinic bulbs.2 of my bulbs are missing as they were broken upon arrrival. I will be changing out some of the blue bulbs with the deep red ones i found for flowering..they produce ONLY 630-660nm light. no other spectrum so i get 100% PAR. top that with MH...now i know what your thinking these lights are not bright at all... well its not about lumens.the human eye response isView attachment 1101463photosynthetic is View attachment 1101468, so your eyes do not see ALL the light these bulbs output. hardcore believers will flame me but let the math and the facts be known.HPS BULBS View attachment 1101469 Anyone notice a pattern here???? Lumens are not the ending factor to bud growth or you could not grow with LED. my sample grow i netted 1oz on a plant with only 116w. If your still in disbelief consider this, chect the spectrum charts for your coveted 3000k bulbs and overlay it with your chlorophyll response charts.. youll notice MOST of the light these bulbs prodice is outside the chloraphyll A+B peaks... now place the spectrums of my lights and overlay them...100% match.. seems to me im doing something right?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Good lookin' out. Possibilities. My biggest problem with LEDs (owning one) is that they have so far been static, meaning I cannot control the PAR. You definitely want more Blue in veg than you do in bloom and vise versa with Red. My second biggest problem is price vs coverage. They all lie about that. To get the coverage an 8 bulb HO T5 delivers you need 2 LEDs which so far more than doubles the cost of a T 5 including aquarium bulbs. These conclusions, from ownership and study, convinced me to move away from them. What I did take away from the experience is a better knowledge of PAR and wondered how I could incorporate it into my BB, and then like mana from heaven, along came Pr0fs thread.
So what exactly is this bulb? Or are we still in "teaser" mode?
any thoughts?i may buy one of these bulbs... looks like we have a winner!
I think that you have misunderstood me. I think it is really cool that you are trying different methods for growing. If this works I too will be trying these bulbs. I have read the entire post and understand what you are trying to do. I am a born skeptic. I can't believe that engineers at GE or Phillips have overlooked the basics of photosynthesis and have not created a bulb for the horticultural industry. It seems too easy. If it works great job but for now for me it just seems that you proved it works but is it actually better than current methods I will have to see others yields. I know you say it is not about yields but big healthy viable plants yield more than weak ones. We will see and I promise I mean no disrespect. I think it is great that you are trying new things.
pr0fesseur's wavelength/nm research is dead on & the results of using these specialty t5 lamps are beneficial in several ways. since there are so many variables in an interior grow ranging from plant strain to grow medium to room design/layout, he is wise to simply experiment with the lighting variable & report his results.
when doing my first grow [to learn the ropes, sort of speak] i decided to go completely t5 start to finish because i realized an interesting alignment in nm wavelengths produced by 'aquarium t5ho lamps' & i wanted to see if the theory that was evident in the spectral chart overlays proved out.
i encountered all kinds of realworld issues as a newbie from overwatering to high temp./humidity room conditions to gnats/spidermites & even mistakenly feeding too high levels of nutes in an aeroponic system causing the ladies to become super-stressed out on several occassions. these t5 lamps actually allowed me to correct the problems & heal the plants somewhat quickly, instead of losing the crop completely. [a real interesting benefit in my case]
the results are a superior grade of bud.
the reason that you cannot believe that the engineers at GE or Philips have overlooked the potential of these lamps for the horticulture industry is because you apparently do not understand the Business that GE & Philips are in. i have worked for over 30 years with the top guys at GE, Philips, Siemans [Osram] & Sylvania [both GTE & domestic] & i can tell you from personal experience that what you think they do to develop light source products is far from the reality.
they haven't gotten the green light from the suits above because there is not enough profit in it for them. be assured that if/when the numbers become 'more interesting' they will get the mandate from marketing to jump on it immediately & then they will tweek the existing aquarium t5.s to offer their revolutionary new Horticulture product.
i would rather have a higher quality product than more of a lower quality product.
you decide which is best for ur situation ::: Quality vs. Quantity