Live heatsink

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SamWE19

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
No issues if it's unplugged. However unlikely, the worst cases include some sort of arc fault starting a fire or more likely you get hit with some voltage and your heart stops. Could also just fry a driver or nothing bad at all could happen. Thing is with a hunk of live aluminum and water being present it would be very easy to see a few planets line up like a spill and accidental touch of the frame.

Not a risk I would be willing to personally take. Are you a gambling man Sam?
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Well it’s been like this for 4 weeks now and as you can see from the picture I can’t get access to the lights without removing all the plants so I’ll take the risk. I do have an automatic fire extinguisher installed in the room.

How would you check if the short is a solder joint?

If I check for continuity between frame and led wouldn’t it always have continuity whichever led I check?
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Visual inspection and the nice thing about a chip holder is you can just unplug a cob but in this case with the solder and glue thats gonna be difficult. While powered off you will have to disconnect them one at a time at the WAGO and check for fault continuity.
 
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SamWE19

Well-Known Member
Shit... they are push fit wagos that are a piss take to get disconnected

How would I check to see if it was a driver issue first? Hopefully it is the driver and would save me checking all the leds
 
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1212ham

Well-Known Member
First thing I would do is measure for both AC and DC voltage between the frame and ground.

It appears to me there is more than one issue.

1. How are you getting shocks if the frame is grounded?

2. Even if the DC is shorted to the frame, how does that cause a voltage potential between the frame and ground? The dc should be isolated from ground by the driver.

3. What am I missing? Even if a bad driver is leaking a little ac current to the dc side, the dc side would have to be shorted to the frame and the ground would have to be bad. I'm really curious about what's going on with this.
 
Dougnsalem

Dougnsalem

Well-Known Member
SamWE19 said:
I soft glued over every solder joint after I had finished soldering to make sure I’d never zap myself if I accidentally touched the solder joint..

I didn’t glue a joint that was touching the frame
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Not meaning to jump in the middle of this, however..... Lol

As usual, Renfro is passing out great info on the electrical stuff. Kinda late now, but for the future, (imho) I'd skip that glue. Buy some bulk heat shrink and a cheap heat gun to melt it. I've had problems in the past where I didn't get the glue thick enough. Wont happen with heat shrink.

Anyways, just a side note for anyone else who happens to read this
 
Nizza

Nizza

Well-Known Member
I know what your thinking... did he fire 5 or six shots?? well you feelin lucky punk?? ARE YA?
 
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SamWE19

Well-Known Member
1212ham said:
First thing I would do is measure for both AC and DC voltage between the frame and ground.

It appears to me there is more than one issue.

1. How are you getting shocks if the frame is grounded?

2. Even if the DC is shorted to the frame, how does that cause a voltage potential between the frame and ground? The dc should be isolated from ground by the driver.

3. What am I missing? Even if a bad driver is leaking a little ac current to the dc side, the dc side would have to be shorted to the frame and the ground would have to be bad. I'm really curious about what's going on with this.
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1. I thought if something is grounded it doesn’t prevent a shock? It just means the electricity has an easier route to ground so instead of going from your hand to your feet and stopping your heart it goes in your hand and out your hand .

2. Don’t know what you mean. The frame is grounded from having the metal drivers mounted directly to the frame. I have 8 drivers on that frame they are all earthed via the houses earth connection on the plug

3. The shock I am getting Isn’t too bad it makes my hand spasm a bit but doesn’t feel like it travels up my arm or anything so I assumed it was earthed correctly.

When I harvest these plants I’ll start troubleshooting them and see what I can find out
 
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SamWE19

Well-Known Member
Dougnsalem said:
Not meaning to jump in the middle of this, however..... Lol

As usual, Renfro is passing out great info on the electrical stuff. Kinda late now, but for the future, (imho) I'd skip that glue. Buy some bulk heat shrink and a cheap heat gun to melt it. I've had problems in the past where I didn't get the glue thick enough. Wont happen with heat shrink.

Anyways, just a side note for anyone else who happens to read this
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Does shrink wrap stick to a surface as I thought without compression around something it would just fall off. That’s why I didn’t use it
 
1

1212ham

Well-Known Member
1212ham said:
First thing I would do is measure for both AC and DC voltage between the frame and ground.

It appears to me there is more than one issue.

1. How are you getting shocks if the frame is grounded?

2. Even if the DC is shorted to the frame, how does that cause a voltage potential between the frame and ground? The dc should be isolated from ground by the driver.

3. What am I missing? Even if a bad driver is leaking a little ac current to the dc side, the dc side would have to be shorted to the frame and the ground would have to be bad. I'm really curious about what's going on with this.
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SamWE19 said:
1. I thought if something is grounded it doesn’t prevent a shock? It just means the electricity has an easier route to ground so instead of going from your hand to your feet and stopping your heart it goes in your hand and out your hand .

2. Don’t know what you mean. The frame is grounded from having the metal drivers mounted directly to the frame. I have 8 drivers on that frame they are all earthed via the houses earth connection on the plug

3. The shock I am getting Isn’t too bad it makes my hand spasm a bit but doesn’t feel like it travels up my arm or anything so I assumed it was earthed correctly.
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1. Preventing shock or electrocution is the purpose of grounding!
The electricity does have an easier path to ground, it goes through that path rather than your body. The current does not go in your hand and out you hand.

2. Some understanding of electric circuits is needed. To get a shock, your body must complete an electric circuit. With AC mains power, the neutral side connects to earth ground. Your body can complete a circuit through your feet touching the ground, which is connected to neutral, and by another body part touching the hot side.

The dc side has no connection to earth ground, it is isolated from ground. You can touch either the positive or negative and not complete a circuit through ground and you feet.

3. If it causes your hand to spasm, it's dangerous! If earthed correctly, how can you get a serious shock? There could be a problem with grounding on the outlet used.
 
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SamWE19

Well-Known Member
1212ham said:
1. Preventing shock or electrocution is the purpose of grounding!
The electricity does have an easier path to ground, it goes through that path rather than your body. The current does not go in your hand and out you hand.

2. Some understanding of electric circuits is needed. To get a shock, your body must complete an electric circuit. With AC mains power, the neutral side connects to earth ground. Your body can complete a circuit through your feet touching the ground, which is connected to neutral, and by another body part touching the hot side.

The dc side has no connection to earth ground, it is isolated from ground. You can touch either the positive or negative and not complete a circuit through ground and you feet.

3. If it causes your hand to spasm, it's dangerous! If earthed correctly, how can you get a serious shock? There could be a problem with grounding on the outlet used.
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So your saying as long as the circuit is grounded I could go touch an electricity pylon and tell everyone it’s a magic trick?

All 8 drivers are connected to 4 different receptacles all connected to ground. So the frame has 4 choices of path to get to ground. Unless the meanwell driver cases aren’t grounded like I thought?
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Electricity takes all paths to ground. That said, the path with the least resistance carries the majority of the load. Thing is, if the frame is grounded, a short to the frame would cause an overcurrent condition and a breaker should pop or a driver should scram or fry. Then the circuit is dead.
 
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SamWE19

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
Electricity takes all paths to ground. That said, the path with the least resistance carries the majority of the load. Thing is, if the frame is grounded, a short to the frame would cause an overcurrent condition and a breaker should pop or a driver should scram or fry. Then the circuit is dead.
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As it stands I haven’t tested it by touching it every time I go in there... I’ve been zapped maybe 4 times in 6 weeks... is it possible it could just be a static charge building up some how?

I also get zapped every fking time i get out of my car and turn around to shut the door :bigjoint:
 
Warpedpassage

Warpedpassage

Well-Known Member
I am a complete dunce when it come to this stuff, but this reminds me a bit of some advice randomblame had given me about using monos on starboards.

Is it possible since you did not use pads between cobs and heatsink you are getting current flow from a cob that is not properly insulated from the heatsink? Just a thought.
Good luck.
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
Lol Oh god I don't miss the COB grow, would zap my scalp like someone is putting out a cigarette on you
 
Nizza

Nizza

Well-Known Member
He isn’t talking about Cling wrap he’s talking about heat shrink tubing. It’s a tubing you warm up and it shrinks to insulate electrical connections and solder joints
 
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SamWE19

Well-Known Member
Nizza said:
He isn’t talking about Cling wrap he’s talking about heat shrink tubing. It’s a tubing you warm up and it shrinks to insulate electrical connections and solder joints
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Yeah I understand what he’s talking about I mean how would you use shrink wrap tubing around a cob solder joint. There is nothing to wrap the tubing around to cover the joint
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
With that particular grow, the earths were all severed by the guy who's lights it was... all the leakage current from 16 drivers on two wall plugs, added up
 
dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
SamWE19 said:
are there any dangers of having a live heatsink/frame?

I’ve been zapped a few times when going into my grow room lately. It seems the entire frame has gone live. Can’t find any loose wire without dismantling the lot and taking a close look.

Is it wasting electricity or causing damage to chips or is it ok as long as I don’t touch it?
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Ground the frames. Then at least you are safe. May flip a breaker but better than a shock.
 
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