OddBall1st
Well-Known Member
It`s the best way to sleep. WTF did I just watch ?
"look at my african-american over there"
- Thread starter UncleBuck
- Start date
It`s the best way to sleep. WTF did I just watch ?
ThickStemz
Well-Known Member
Par for the course in 1904. He was still a damn good president.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
I would expect you to defend his racist views as correct, not as forgivable due to them having been common. However, I would not excuse the imperialist leader of the wealthiest economic and military powerhouse by saying "par for the course". I would hold the world's most powerful man to higher standard. He was a fucking blatant racist imperialist and deserves full regard for it.
ThickStemz
Well-Known Member
America hadn't yet overtaken the British. It's arguable that the US was behind a number of European countries at the time.
We're all a product of our time. And as such we should only be judged by the standards of the time we live in.
Had you grown up and been taught the same and experienced the same as TR you would likely hold similar views.
Literally no one from that time held views akin to yours today with regard to race. As racist as you think I am, racial progressives from that era would likely be far more racist than I am. The leading minds at places such as Harvard and Oxford considered blacks the missing link.
Its unrealistic to hold TR to a modern standard.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Except black people
and Mexican people
and Chinese people
and Peter Kropotkin
and Sam Clements
and gay people
and Emma Goldman
and Filipino people
and Cubans
Wait, it seems like the only people who thought the way he did were other racist imperialists.
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
America was far from the wealthiest or most powerful nation in the early 1900's, it's actually pretty laughable to label it as such. As a matter of fact, before WW2, America had a smaller army than Portugal. Out status as the world's most powerful nation and sole superpower actually dates to around the 50's. During Teddy's presidency, we were nowhere near the top of the list.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
It dates to the spread of imperialism. It is attributable to the imperialist racist who turned the country into an empire.
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Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
If you think Blacks, Mexicans, Filipinos, Cubans, and especially Chinese from that period were any less racist you have some serious blinders on. Racism has played a major role in the history of all those countries.
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Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
"Imperialism", or at least the impulse that drove it, was nearly universal, you can't just vilify the ones who succeeded at it. Imperialism is not the boogeyman everyone makes it out to be, it's just another go-to buzzword for people with no real concept of the complexities of history. Your summation is simplistic and shortsighted. I'm actually kinda disappointed.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
So, what I will do, is find some Roosevelt quotes and consider them in light of your two comments here and see if the victims of his racist imperialism really thought the way he did as you proclaim. Notice I didn't mention native Americans, the victims of the greatest genocide in history, I was leaving that to really put an exclamation point on this. Aside from the fact that he once invited a black guy to have lunch in the white house, let's explore some of his wonderful racist imperialism by a selection of quotes by the racist imperialist himself.
"I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't inquire too closely into the case of the tenth. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian."
"The world would have halted, had it not been for the Teutonic conquests in alien lands."
The most ultimately righteous of all wars is a war with savages, though it is apt to be also the most terrible and inhuman. The rude, fierce settler who drives the savage from the land lays all civilized mankind under a debt to him... It is of incalculable importance that America, Australia, and Siberia should pass out of the hands of their red, black, and yellow aboriginal owners, and become the heritage of the dominant world races."
"Whether the whites won the land by treaty, by armed conflict, or, as was actually the case, by a mixture of both, mattered comparatively little so long as the land was won. It was all-important that it should be won, for the benefit of civilization and in the interests of mankind."
“Nineteenth-century democracy needs no more complete vindication for its existence than the fact that it has kept for the white race the best portions of the new world’s surface.”
"Society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce their kind… Some day, we will realize that the prime duty, the inescapable duty, of the good citizen of the right type, is to leave his or her blood behind him in the world; and that we have no business to permit the perpetuation of citizens of the wrong type.’’
see4
Well-Known Member
You keep telling yourself that. And someday it will all go away.
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
Those are all pretty mild compared to what many people were saying at the time, but I never claimed that he wasn't racist, and you haven't proven that he was comparatively more racist than any other world leaders of that era (And he was considerably less racist in certain aspects than Taft who immediately followed him). You also haven't proven that he was any more Imperialistic than those before him (Arguably Polk began American Imperialism, and McKinley advanced it much more than Roosevelt did).
OddBall1st
Well-Known Member
Well Latino`s are Hispanic and from Latin America. Mexicans are Hispanic and from Latin America. The judge was born in the States not Latin America.
It didn`t work,.......They`re still here. It was a thought !
ThickStemz
Well-Known Member
A Mexican at that time would have been those of Spanish descent who ruled over the natives with an iron fist.
The Chinese have always been an imperialist culture thinking they were superior to their neighbours.
Sam Clemons did not believe the African to be the full equal of the white man. That was an almost unheard of belief.
Filipino people Had been subjects of the Spanish empire forever and a day. I doubt they felt superior to anyone. Or equal.
I mean really dude.. You suck and making points.
I wouldn't deny that a few individuals might have held to full equality. But not cast swaths of people. It was exceedingly rare.
Fucking Charles Darwin thought Africans to be inferior.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
You must have trouble reading, or maybe logic is not your strong suit. Go back and look at the argument that I made, which preceded my other comments and find that the argument I made was not explicated. A world leader does not get a free pass because it's the times, a world leader is blamed for it being the times.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Even if anything you said in this hardly coherent post was true, it still doesn't excuse a racist imperialist for transforming a country into a racist empire. Are you really going to claim to know a fucking thing about the historic views of the victims of white imperialism?
You believe black people are inferior, and have been called racist many times on this forum.
ThickStemz
Well-Known Member
I have been called racist. I'm not sure why. Could you show me something I have said that is racist?
I think blacks, asians, Hispanics, fuck all humans are more or less the same. If we were dogs we would all be the same breed. The abilities of individuals vary greatly. But race cannot tell you about an individual.
That said, no, I can't comprehend the complete psyche of victims of imperialism. But do you think the Philipinos suffered more under Spanish and American imperialism than the Koreans did under Chinese?
I noticed you left the Jews off you list. Is that because they've been running around calling themselves "gods chosen people" for 3 thousand years?
Its possible for all national and racial groups to develop beliefs they are superior. When It becomes as ubiquitous as it was in late 19th century America it's hard for anyone not to fall in line. We all could.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
The comment you made about native Americans in another thread recently was pretty fucking racist.
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
No, I can read just fine, you must have a shitty memory about what you yourself typed.
How exactly did the quotes you provided show anything at all about what the "victims of his racist imperialism really thought"? You provided quotes by him, but none by them to contrast it to. I would assume you have a plethora of quotes from Chinese, Mexican, etc. world leaders from 1904 that espouse racial harmony? Or were you just talking out your ass? Oh, and btw, your assertion that "a world leader is blamed for it being the times" is a fucking stupid, simplistic, outdated, and disproved method of thinking. Yes, they are blamed for it, but only by idiots who don't understand the world or history. The "Great Man Theory" (Which is what you are espousing) holds no water with serious modern historians. "Great Men" are a product of the times much more than the times are a product of "Great Men".
Are you crying?