Lucas Formula; Overwatered, overfed and in need of a transplant - HELP PLEASE!!!

Hi all I have a thread going thats only got two people helping me on. I am creating a new thread to hopefully gain more exposure and advice.

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/308206-nube-here-help-appreciated.html

Intro -
All I know that I have subjected the girls to massive amounts of newbi abuse. What I dont know is if these are just effects from the abuse that has yet to work its way out of the medium or plants. Or if I am still causing them stress.. I am not convinced that I am not still killing them in some way(s) shape or form. I realize that they are more or less rootbound but I am very concerned about the leaves more importantly the under leaves that look like they are generating branches that will generate buds? I think I am just ranting soo..

Thanks

Beginner

Last posts...

Bugs, I think their the good kind.. I have seen their nests in my basement I didnt destroy them all just 90% of them.. Its warming up here in the Midwest.... They are coming about. They are good right? I dont think they are lady bugs but that lady asian beetle. Its an intrusive species I believe they bite.. Been told they are meat eaters only? Anyone know?

Also Since I started flushing yesterday one of my plants has grown more then an inch in height. Should I drop my lights a bit.. Say to about 24 inches?

Also I have not heard anything from anyone yet...

I am planning on switching out my res and adding back a full res of RO/300 PPM water and beginning a 2 x day feeding schedule until I transplant on Monday and after that see more root growth outside the cubes into the buckets... I skipped the noon watering and they seem to be very happy at this point in the day... They are all very perky, growing madly... I think an inch today so far.. Some of the new leaves have greened back up, old leaves obviously still are having a ton of issues but oh well I toasted them.. I am more optimistic now then I have been in a while... Unless someone with some mojo tells me differently I am gonna just flood the tray half way for 10 minutes tonight at 6pm. Then start watering them 2 x day tomorrow... Til like I said I transplant into the E&G and see some root growth into the bottom bucket... One the bigger plants I got, The ones that growing crazy today. I noticed in between the rockwool cubes that there is roots growing out of it following the path the water drains to (Center of the tray). As I mentioned already I cant transplant til Monday afternoon at the earliest. What should I do about these roots. I have 150 l of hydroton but I dont know if I should put that in the tray for now or what.. The roots look white, and they have moisture on the tray surrounding them but they are in the direct light...
I rarely move the rockwool cubes because the roots on the bottom and afraid of crushing them if they dont get lined up right in the tray. When I first started I would turn and move the cubes but after the roots popped out they started showing stress when I did that.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


+++++ Rep

Anyone got help for him?

i can't really help but i will say not trying to be mean man but i think u should have did a soil grow b4 jumping into hydro (i have no experience with hydro) so i can't really help. but i will advise that u kill any and all bug's i don't take chance's idc if they are helper's or hurters i don't like bug's and don't take the chance. i'm going to look at you're original thread and see if i can get more info on what all is going on and i'll see if i can help but next grow i'd go for soil man just my opinion.

GOODoleBOY said:

i can't really help but i will say not trying to be mean man but i think u should have did a soil grow b4 jumping into hydro (i have no experience with hydro) so i can't really help. but i will advise that u kill any and all bug's i don't take chance's idc if they are helper's or hurters i don't like bug's and don't take the chance. i'm going to look at you're original thread and see if i can get more info on what all is going on and i'll see if i can help but next grow i'd go for soil man just my opinion.

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GOODOle... Thanks a ton for your feedback... Rep ++ for you..

As far as the bugs go everything I have ever read about those beatles are posi so I am going to keep them ladys around my girls for a bit and I will be sure to let you know if I have any problems down the line resulting from them.

I am a hydro guy and always have been.. I grew dro 15-17 years ago and cant imagine growing indoors any other way.. I live in an area of the country where we have some of the best black soil in the world... Glaciers and all... I plan on putting some good outdoor bud out in about 8 weeks in soil outside... I am also gonna spread my bag seed in a seperate area. It should be fun.

I love challanges. In fact I thrive by my achievements in my life. I cant wait to gro killer dro again. Times have change and I anticipate I will prodeuce some ganja my family and friends will love me for.

Thanks soooo muck for your feedback I value it a ton

beginner

well there are hunter bug's that kill other thing's if u can possible get a pic or a bug and take it to a local college or something like that maybe even a wildlife place they might be able to tell u what it is just a thought thank's for the rep back at ya and i didn't know u did dro b4 hope it comes back to you man ppl say it's hard/easy at the same time i'm just scared of it although i do plan on buy a bubble bucket out my local head shop sooner or later lol

Helo Caz. I looked over your other thread and am confused. I also just got out of vEG and am growing in my ebb/gro system. How can you be on Lucas with VEG? Tell me your nute ratio. I think you are way out of whack. I did the same thing. Also, even 30 mun 2 times a day seems too much for that rockwool. Does it even dry up a little? Does the resovoir dry up or is there a pool left where the rockwool whicks it up? FYI the ebb/flo is not DWC as one poster stated. My grow is almost identical to yours. drip, ebb/gro. By the way here is a link to my problem plant: same scenario noob overfert, too much love. but this is where by bubble plant is at the moment

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/308709-droopy-curling-leaves-hydroton-piks.html

patlpp said:

Helo Caz. I looked over your other thread and am confused. I also just got out of vEG and am growing in my ebb/gro system. How can you be on Lucas with VEG? Tell me your nute ratio. I think you are way out of whack. I did the same thing. Also, even 30 mun 2 times a day seems too much for that rockwool. Does it even dry up a little? Does the resovoir dry up or is there a pool left where the rockwool whicks it up? FYI the ebb/flo is not DWC as one poster stated. My grow is almost identical to yours. drip, ebb/gro. By the way here is a link to my problem plant: same scenario noob overfert, too much love. but this is where by bubble plant is at the moment

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/308709-droopy-curling-leaves-hydroton-piks.html

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Pat... its me that is messing up my grow I am the thread author. Caz is just a community member that is holding my hand.. Thanks Caz LOL..

Anyways.. for vegging I intially began on a 1/4 0-5-10 regime

next I learned that cause I am using HIDs and no floros I should be using the 0-8-16 recipe.

I then switched up to 1/2 strength 0-5-10 the next week, followed by 1/2 0-8-16 the following week til I was up to full strength well just under... 800-900 ppms, full strength should be around what 1100 ppm @ .5.

I have ocme to the realization that yes I was overwatering and saturating the cubes WAY to much... Its a perfect newbie storm of lots of mistakes.. Hey I guess I like to be an expert with experiance right away LOL j/k but the best way to learn is to fuck up right? Arguable yes...

Anyways I was top feeding the cubes.. All the cubes have roots out their bottoms.. I am now just flooding the tray an inch 2 x day 6am and 6pm with 300 ppm water using the 0-1-2 part GH nute regime...

On monday I am transplanting to the ebb and grow system when my add-on pots arrive.

Feedback

Thanks

I am noob to the forum...not growing

I have played with Hydro systems for a couple years now..after reading your original thread I think you are trying to hard...stuff is easy to grow.
The biggest mistake noob's make is to over do everything hoping for a bigger yeild.
You should also be draining your res completly.....the left overs might be screwing your res #'s a bit....the only way to know for sure is to empty it and give fresh nutes.
I do not use hydrogen peroxide......at first I did but quit and had fewer issues...stuff is strong and sometimes burns the roots.

I use GH nutes and have good luck with them...never used lucas program.
I mix my nutes to proper level, ph 6.0 and tds around 600 then add to my system.I then pay attention to the strength of nutes daily...adding water if the #'s climb and nutes if it has dropped in strength. I am no scientist but I have good results doing it this way.

Just my .02

HicDoo said:

I am noob to the forum...not growing

I have played with Hydro systems for a couple years now..after reading your original thread I think you are trying to hard...stuff is easy to grow.
The biggest mistake noob's make is to over do everything hoping for a bigger yeild.
You should also be draining your res completly.....the left overs might be screwing your res #'s a bit....the only way to know for sure is to empty it and give fresh nutes.
I do not use hydrogen peroxide......at first I did but quit and had fewer issues...stuff is strong and sometimes burns the roots.

I use GH nutes and have good luck with them...never used lucas program.
I mix my nutes to proper level, ph 6.0 and tds around 600 then add to my system.I then pay attention to the strength of nutes daily...adding water if the #'s climb and nutes if it has dropped in strength. I am no scientist but I have good results doing it this way.

Just my .02

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Hi Hic glad to see your two cents.. Yeah I have come to the realization of that as well. trying to hard, killing them softly... ect.. I am a newb and your right I was trying like hell to maximize my yields any way possible with the knowledge I have learned.. I appreciate your input greatly. I am relaxing a bit now and trying to let it come to me.

I was wonder the exact same thing about the res, wondering if it would get called out. Glad you did. I was only doing that to flush and have always pulled the res out of the room and emptied it down the drain in the past... I will make sure I do this with flushing water too...

Even though I am sure you know exactly what your talking about I am gonna continue using 4-7 ml / gal of h202.. I have never ready anything but fantastic reviews using it correctly.. I like that it looks for the fight with the water molecule thats kinda hardcore.. lol

So we know I was over watering them and not allowing them to dry out enough and probably still am.. I picked up a cube an hour ago and a TON of water poured out it when I angled it to a corner... I am thinking I am gonna completely halt on watering at all and just keep the roots damp for another day or too.. The cubes are soooo wet!!! Plus i really wanna get a new baseline for the transplant on Monday..
I plan on using the res-equilibrium method as soon as I start feeding them again as well, feeding them less nutrients at a lower tds ppm..

Thanks again for your contributions...

Beginner

BeginnersLuck said:

Anyways.. for vegging I intially began on a 1/4 0-5-10 regime

next I learned that cause I am using HIDs and no floros I should be using the 0-8-16 recipe.

I then switched up to 1/2 strength 0-5-10 the next week, followed by 1/2 0-8-16 the following week til I was up to full strength well just under... 800-900 ppms, full strength should be around what 1100 ppm @ .5.

This is what I don't understand what you did. In Lucas, there is no such thing as a 0-5-10 or 0-8-16 at half strength. Those numbers are the doses, not the ratios. 0-5-10 for example is the ml dose per gallon of grow,micro,bloom respectively when in veg under floro lights. By the way, the general consensus is not to LUCAS in VEG. Many utilize the standard 3-part formula than proceed to LUCAS in flower. Additionally, seems to be that the optimum RATIO of N-P-K for MJ in Veg is 3-1- 2 as standard and to go maybe 3.25-1-3.5 in high light/temp/CO2 environments. (Ref: user FATMAN posts)
Guess what, according to FATMAN, your original 0G-2M-1B ratio you first did was actually a very good almost perfect ratio except for the high calcium, which from my understanding is no big deal if you change your res out every week.

Lucas is 1-5-2 N-P-K so not the best for Veg. GH standard veg is 2-1-3 N-P-K, much better than LUCAS. If you read many Lucas posts, you will find the majority like GH standard 3G-2M-1B Veg dose formula.

On monday I am transplanting to the ebb and grow system when my add-on pots arrive.

Count on a day setting up your ebb/gro. Test, than test again. Fill the buckets without medium and let the system fill the buckets. Let sit for 2 hrs to check for leaks. Sometimes cracks will develop in the buckets from install abuse. The buckets are fairly rigid and prone to crack. Cycle 15 min on/off for like at least 3 or 4 hrs. Once you feel good about it THAN transplant.

With the system you will get a sample ensemble of Techniflora nutrients. DO NOT USE as per directions. The nute ratios are all out of whack. One thing I would do though is use the Root66 per directions and dip your babes in the mix during transfer. Very good for the roots. If you use the root 66 ,NO H2O2 for the first week, Root66 is organic and the peroxide will kill the little bio dudes. I used the package and it totally OD'ed my plants. The product itself is good, not knockin it just that for MJ, the recipe sucks.

Feedback

Thanks

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Let me know if you have problems or questions with the install, I'm here for you man.....

patlpp said:

Let me know if you have problems or questions with the install, I'm here for you man.....

Click to expand...

Im not following you now... or anything your trying to say to me.. Lucas Formula as I know it g-m-b grow-micro-bloom 3 part GH nutes. Floro-veg - 0-5-10, HID-flower 0-8-16. Yes not NPK but ml/gal of the g-m-b; no grow (green), 1 part micro (purple) to 2 parts bloom (pink)...

So if I was doing a 1/4 strength then that would be like a 0-1.5-3 ml/gal of the grow-micro-bloom..

I am using HIDs no floros... so I am under the impression to have a higher ppm count and use a 0-8-16 mixture... Honestly though I never really care about how many ml/gal I am putting in of the micro and bloom. I just keep it simple 0 parts grow 1 part micro 2 parts bloom and just watch the ppm with my tds meter. Make sense.. Search lucas on here anywhere and you find what I mean 0 parts grow, 1 part micro, 2 parts bloom..

Thanks for confusing me

BeginnersLuck said:

Im not following you now... or anything your trying to say to me.. Lucas Formula as I know it g-m-b grow-micro-bloom 3 part GH nutes. Floro-veg - 0-5-10, HID-flower 0-8-16. Yes not NPK but ml/gal of the g-m-b; no grow (green), 1 part micro (purple) to 2 parts bloom (pink)...

So if I was doing a 1/4 strength then that would be like a 0-1.5-3 ml/gal of the grow-micro-bloom..

I am using HIDs no floros... so I am under the impression to have a higher ppm count and use a 0-8-16 mixture... Honestly though I never really care about how many ml/gal I am putting in of the micro and bloom. I just keep it simple 0 parts grow 1 part micro 2 parts bloom and just watch the ppm with my tds meter. Make sense.. Search lucas on here anywhere and you find what I mean 0 parts grow, 1 part micro, 2 parts bloom..

Thanks for confusing me

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I know exactly what you mean and you do have it right by using the dosage ratio of 1:2 I.E. 1 part Micro 2 parts Bloom, thats what the ratio is with lucas. But the Lucas reference "0-8-16" is the DOSAGE ratio in milliliters/Gal: 0 ml grow, 8 ml Micro ,16ml Bloom per gallon. Or stated: 0G-8M-16B . Your terminology is fine but not standard . If you want to convey that you fed your girls 1/2 of 0-8-16, just state 0-4-8, or better yet 0G-4M-8B. I think we are both trying to say the same thing

Later on, you will be concerned about milliliter dosages because the top-off calculations demand it. It will be much easier.

I am just warning you that the LUCAS N-P-K ratios for VEG only (Not dosage ratio, but the fertilizer element ratios) are off along with the techno sample pack; and that the average joe will use 3tsp/gal Grow, 2tsp/gal Micro , 1 tsp/gal Bloom for VEG.

patlpp said:

I know exactly what you mean and you do have it right by using the dosage ratio of 1:2 I.E. 1 part Micro 2 parts Bloom, thats what the ratio is with lucas. But the Lucas reference "0-8-16" is the DOSAGE ratio in milliliters/Gal: 0 ml grow, 8 ml Micro ,16ml Bloom per gallon. Or stated: 0G-8M-16B . Your terminology is fine but not standard . If you want to convey that you fed your girls 1/2 of 0-8-16, just state 0-4-8, or better yet 0G-4M-8B. I think we are both trying to say the same thing

Later on, you will be concerned about milliliter dosages because the top-off calculations demand it. It will be much easier.

I am just warning you that the LUCAS N-P-K ratios for VEG only (Not dosage ratio, but the fertilizer element ratios) are off along with the techno sample pack; and that the average joe will use 3tsp/gal Grow, 2tsp/gal Micro , 1 tsp/gal Bloom for VEG.

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Thank you again ...

Wow scared the heck outa me like I was WAYYYYYYY off or something... I was like hmmm got me thinking I had to research and look at what I have been doing..

That is very interesting this is what you use? With good success and the FATMAN swears by it?

Thanks...

Another question.. Supposedly when you use the 0-5-10 the ppm is supposed to be 597 or something and a 0-8-16 is supposed to be 1100 or something... I noticed that when I mix this up its lower.. say 0-5-10 for me is like 500. I am using a shot glass measuring unit that is supposed to be for this. .5 conversion

Thanks...

BeginnersLuck said:

Another question.. Supposedly when you use the 0-5-10 the ppm is supposed to be 597 or something and a 0-8-16 is supposed to be 1100 or something... I noticed that when I mix this up its lower.. say 0-5-10 for me is like 500. I am using a shot glass measuring unit that is supposed to be for this. .5 conversion

Thanks...

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LUCAS 1 gallon mixed
TDS@ .5

0-4-8 = 473 ppm
0-5-10 = 592
0-8-16 = 947

Usually Hannas like the Primo are .5 conversion. To be sure: Calibrate your meter than take 1 gallon RO water and put 8 ml Micro and 16 ml Bloom in it and measure. It should be real close to 947. If it's not, thats ok but note your reading and reference that as your standard for 0-8-16. I have the Hanna Primo 1 and I measure about 955. Remember that a 2% error, which is typical, can make your measurements off by as much as 20 ppm when measuring 1000 ppm

EDIT : I see your meter has a 10 PPM error at 1000. 1% error. My bad

patlpp said:

LUCAS 1 gallon mixed
TDS@ .5

0-4-8 = 473 ppm
0-5-10 = 592
0-8-16 = 947

Usually Hannas like the Primo are .5 conversion. To be sure: Calibrate your meter than take 1 gallon RO water and put 8 ml Micro and 16 ml Bloom in it and measure. It should be real close to 947. If it's not, thats ok but note your reading and reference that as your standard for 0-8-16. I have the Hanna Primo 1 and I measure about 955. Remember that a 2% error, which is typical, can make your measurements off by as much as 20 ppm when measuring 1000 ppm

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Cool Big P was helping me out alot. He dont grow using Lucas tho... I am recovering from burn and over feeding/watering. He suggested a PPM fo 300 for now.. What do you suggest, plants are recovering kinda nicely, stunted, yellow, stressed...


Thanks..

patlpp said:

Let me know if you have problems or questions with the install, I'm here for you man.....

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Please see here

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/309910-didnt-ph-buffer-rockwool-plants.html

Thats the beauty of hydroponics , Its easier to deal with problem like over feeding just change the rez

erakattack said:

Thats the beauty of hydroponics , Its easier to deal with problem like over feeding just change the rez

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Right.. well kinda what if you have 6 inch cubes like I do and they hold 1.25 gallons of water.. Kinda hard to leach those excess salts outa

BL