Matching Drivers and COBs

SaltyNuts

SaltyNuts

Well-Known Member
@muleface @Abiqua thanks you guys this is very helpful! :hug:

Impressive numbers from the gen 7 Vero 29-C (66v) 3000K and 3500K models at both 700mA and 1050mA :twisted::!:

HLG320-1050 looks awesome with four 29's, 70W TDP is within reason, great efficiency, passive cooling still do-able, lots of light! Four at 70W (280W) would yield upwards of 55,000 lm, depending on case temp. That doesn't suck.

I'm a noob, still haven't done a build :wall: but these paper numbers make it look like Gen 7 29's make a DIY fixture cost-effective up-front compared to buying LEC315 (or a 600W SE HPS). You can make a four-cob fixture, 320W max, dimmable, for a 3'x3' space, for about $400. By that token two such fixtures covering a 3x6 (18sqft) would seem to rival a 1000W HPS over a 4x4, and total cost in the first year still compares well. In both cases you have no expensive annual bulb replacement, but you do have the option of upgrading/swapping cobs (check this https://www.rollitup.org/t/all-things-vero.851330/page-124 )

So I guess it's time to get dirty 8)

I need to learn how to use a multi-meter to adjust the current on an A model, that sounds like maybe the way to go for occasional dimming, like transplant/veg/bloom modes.
But I don't understand exactly how the B series dimming works, is it less efficient or less reliable method? Would you say that the A series method is superior for achieving most consistent efficacy? :clap:
 
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Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
SaltyNuts said:
@muleface @Abiqua thanks you guys this is very helpful! :hug:

Impressive numbers from the gen 7 Vero 29-C (66v) 3000K and 3500K models at both 700mA and 1050mA :twisted::!:

HLG320-1050 looks awesome with four 29's, 70W TDP is within reason, great efficiency, passive cooling still do-able, lots of light!

I'm a noob, still haven't done a build :wall: but these paper numbers make it look like Gen 7 29's make a DIY fixture cost-effective up-front compared to buying LEC315. You can make a four-cob fixture, 320W max, dimmable, for a 3'x3' space, >40,000 flux, for about $400. By that token two such fixtures covering a 3x6 (18sqft) would seem to rival a 1000W HPS over a 4x4, and total cost in the first year still compares well. In both cases you have no expensive annual bulb replacement, but you do have the option of upgrading/swapping cobs (check this https://www.rollitup.org/t/all-things-vero.851330/page-124 )

So I guess it's time to get dirty 8)

I need to learn how to use a multi-meter to adjust the current on an A model, that sounds like maybe the way to go for occasional dimming, like transplant/veg/bloom modes.
But I don't understand exactly how the B series dimming works, is it less efficient or less reliable method? Would you say that the A series method is superior for achieving most consistent efficacy? :clap:
Click to expand...
I almost bought 4 of the 3K's last night from Robin. I have always been a Vero fan and these are very nice. even better efficiency than my CXB3070's! and probably quite a bit more from my Gen 5! and 6, V29's.
 
SaltyNuts

SaltyNuts

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
I almost bought 4 of the 3K's last night from Robin. I have always been a Vero fan and these are very nice. even better efficiency than my CXB3070's! and probably quite a bit more from my Gen 5! and 6, V29's.
Click to expand...
I roughed out some Vero 29-C 3000K diy fixtures in US prices, using numbers from the Bridgelux tool. Looks to be superior to 400W HPS, 600W MH, and LEC315 in both price and performance. (The numbers get better and better as you go to 4000K, 5000K, 6500K)

#1
220W fixture
38,016 Lumens (176 lm/W)
1) HLG-240H-C1050B = $72.00
3) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $96
3) 75W MODULED MEGA 134100-B = $60
subtotal $230
plus holders, reflectors, mounts, wire, etc ~$100
TOTAL ~$330

#2
230W fixture
44,352 Lumens (192 lm/W)
1) HLG-240H-C700B = $72.00
5) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $160
5) 50W MODULED XTRA 9980-B = $50
subtotal $300
plus holders, lenses, mounts, wire, etc ~$120
TOTAL ~$420

#3
280W fixture
49,280 Lumens (176 lm/W)
1) HLG-320H-C1050B = $110.00
4) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $128
4) 75W MODULED MEGA 134100-B = $80
subtotal $330
plus holders, lenses, mounts, wire, etc ~$130
TOTAL ~$460

#4
280W fixture
53,184 Lumens (192 lm/W)
1) HLG-320H-C700B = $110.00
6) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $192
6) 50W MODULED XTRA 9980-B = $60
subtotal $360
plus holders, lenses, mounts, wire, etc ~$130
TOTAL ~$500
 
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G

G84

Well-Known Member
SaltyNuts said:
@muleface @Abiqua thanks you guys this is very helpful!
But I don't understand exactly how the B series dimming works, is it less efficient or less reliable method? Would you say that the A series method is superior for achieving most consistent efficacy? :clap:
Click to expand...
Dimming with b model is simple.
If you use 1 driver= use 100 koh potentiometer and attach it to dim+ and dim- wires that comes out of driver.
If you use more tHan 1 driver,and want to dimm it together at the same time with just 1 knob, use wago connector and connect all dim+ together,do the same with dim-.Add 1 wire to wago dim+ so that wire is together with all dim + wire from all the driver.do the same for dim-.take 1 potentiometer of 100/number of driver (so if you are using 3 driver is 100/3= 33koh potentiometer, 4 driver is 100/4=25 koh potentiometer,and so on).
Connect dim+ and dim- to potentiometer you are done
 
sixstring2112

sixstring2112

Well-Known Member
pop22 said:
Thinner wire? No, wire size requirement doesn't decrease when you go from 120v to 220v. Wires limitation is actually by wattage. 14 gauge rated 15 amp @ 110v is 7.5 amp rated @ 220v. You don't want to be running 15 amps of 220 on anything less than 10 gauge!
Click to expand...
sorry but this is just not true. length of runs has more to do with wire size then breaker sizes.we wire 30 amp a/c using 12 ga wire.i just looked up a 1.5hp pump and the recs for 300 ft is 10ga on a 20amp breaker.if i move the pump closer to 250 ft it tells me i can use 12 ga safely for same pump and breaker.if i move into the 100ft or less zone i can use 14 ga wire.when you use 240v each wire takes half the load it would see if it was wired for 120v.
 
muleface

muleface

Well-Known Member
SaltyNuts said:
I roughed out some Vero 29-C 3000K diy fixtures in US prices, using numbers from the Bridgelux tool. Looks to be superior to 400W HPS, 600W MH, and LEC315 in both price and performance. (The numbers get better and better as you go to 4000K, 5000K, 6500K)

#1
220W fixture
38,016 Lumens (176 lm/W)
1) HLG-240H-C1050B = $72.00
3) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $96
3) 75W MODULED MEGA 134100-B = $60
subtotal $230
plus holders, reflectors, mounts, wire, etc ~$100
TOTAL ~$330

#2
230W fixture
44,352 Lumens (192 lm/W)
1) HLG-240H-C700B = $72.00
5) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $160
5) 50W MODULED XTRA 9980-B = $50
subtotal $300
plus holders, lenses, mounts, wire, etc ~$120
TOTAL ~$420

#3
280W fixture
49,280 Lumens (176 lm/W)
1) HLG-320H-C1050B = $110.00
4) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $128
4) 75W MODULED MEGA 134100-B = $80
subtotal $330
plus holders, lenses, mounts, wire, etc ~$130
TOTAL ~$460

#4
280W fixture
53,184 Lumens (192 lm/W)
1) HLG-320H-C700B = $110.00
6) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $192
6) 50W MODULED XTRA 9980-B = $60
subtotal $360
plus holders, lenses, mounts, wire, etc ~$130
TOTAL ~$500
Click to expand...

maybe Im just not seeing them, but do you add Heat Sinks on these?
 
wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
SaltyNuts said:
anyone want to weigh-in on the difference between DC and pulsed power?
Click to expand...
DC is simply to switch on the power, wait for the temperature to stabilize and then measure. Basically common operation.

Pulsed measurements are done with very short pulses of current. This typically doesn't heat the junction temperature of the COB and therefore allows for flux measuring at specific temperatures.

It also allows the manufacturer to test the COB without attaching it to a cooler. ie for binning the COBs after manufacturing.

Another option is determining the junction temperature by pulsing the measurement (so the Tj stays constant) while measuring the forward voltage.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
SaltyNuts said:
I roughed out some Vero 29-C 3000K diy fixtures in US prices, using numbers from the Bridgelux tool. Looks to be superior to 400W HPS, 600W MH, and LEC315 in both price and performance. (The numbers get better and better as you go to 4000K, 5000K, 6500K)

#1
220W fixture
38,016 Lumens (176 lm/W)
1) HLG-240H-C1050B = $72.00
3) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $96
3) 75W MODULED MEGA 134100-B = $60
subtotal $230
plus holders, reflectors, mounts, wire, etc ~$100
TOTAL ~$330

#2
230W fixture
44,352 Lumens (192 lm/W)
1) HLG-240H-C700B = $72.00
5) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $160
5) 50W MODULED XTRA 9980-B = $50
subtotal $300
plus holders, lenses, mounts, wire, etc ~$120
TOTAL ~$420

#3
280W fixture
49,280 Lumens (176 lm/W)
1) HLG-320H-C1050B = $110.00
4) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $128
4) 75W MODULED MEGA 134100-B = $80
subtotal $330
plus holders, lenses, mounts, wire, etc ~$130
TOTAL ~$460

#4
280W fixture
53,184 Lumens (192 lm/W)
1) HLG-320H-C700B = $110.00
6) BXRC-30E10K0-C-73 = $192
6) 50W MODULED XTRA 9980-B = $60
subtotal $360
plus holders, lenses, mounts, wire, etc ~$130
TOTAL ~$500
Click to expand...

Give me a bit I will add the rough PPF...or you can, 4.66 joules/ umol/s....

I am kind of disillusioned with Mechantronix, they are great sinks, but I want, need, crave Passive, its what plants want!
Wish their passives were a little cheaper, so it wouldn't be worth going over to Alibay....ah well sounds thru the hourglass....

I might wait till Robin gets his splayed for some Gen 7, am I dumb :joint:


@muleface see bold above...but the heatsinks are all Mechatronix. but sixstring got it right :peace:
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
muleface said:
just checked them out on https://led.cdiweb.com, not a bad price? are they pre-drilled and tapped?
Click to expand...
Yep, the problem is that they predrilled for like 20 different patterns, so sometimes material is missing underneath the base of the LES of certain cobs, not good.

I have seen this mounting hole problem with a variety so far....cree 3070's, Vero 29's and Vero 13's.....

They work fine in lower wattage situations [I have been using iceled xtra 550's w/ CXb3070's for 9-10 months trouble-free] but now with the other options, the active cooled especially are much farther down my list.
They are easy to find though and CDI usually has adequate stock.
 
SaltyNuts

SaltyNuts

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
Yep, the problem is that they predrilled for like 20 different patterns, so sometimes material is missing underneath the base of the LES of certain cobs, not good.

I have seen this mounting hole problem with a variety so far....cree 3070's, Vero 29's and Vero 13's.....

They work fine in lower wattage situations [I have been using iceled xtra 550's w/ CXb3070's for 9-10 months trouble-free] but now with the other options, the active cooled especially are much farther down my list.
They are easy to find though and CDI usually has adequate stock.
Click to expand...
Yeah Jorge's cheap and cheerful setup got me thinking of the Mechatronix 9980 heatsinks, but I haven't used them. I thought he used them passive at 50W TDP. I see what you are saying about all the pre-drilled holes creating uneven thermal contact area, that is a big problemo.... then I might opt for some nice big pre-tapped pin-fin passive heatsinks from one of our colleagues here, the cost is still quite reasonable.
 
miggaman

miggaman

Member
I'm in the group of young thundercats waiting for digikey to drop the 2700K and 3500K Vero 29 GEN 7's.... :((((( Saddest. :sad:
 
S

Shugglet

Well-Known Member
miggaman said:
I'm in the group of young thundercats waiting for digikey to drop the 2700K and 3500K Vero 29 GEN 7's.... :((((( Saddest. :sad:
Click to expand...
Considering those are listed as non-stock, unless you plan on ordering a minimum of 50, I think you might be waiting forever.
 
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