May want to read this before buying from Black dog Led

Kushash said:

Excellent post. I'm glad you are choosing the route you chose.
The 1st post by this member says he's grown for over 30 years and is 43 years old.
Play it safe.
I was going to joke a couple of days ago, that you should PM him your SS # lol.
Happy Growing!

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I have been growing for over 30 years - started with my old man back in the day. All good - agree it sounds and looks shady my bad. Just disregard

So after sales at black dog looks a bit cloak and dagger... Decent, if you got the right hook up.

Might be worth mentioning here for anyone looking into these blurple/extreme tweaked white spectrums:
Even if there was a super special sauce in black dogs spectrum the way they create it is far from the most efficient and sensible way. Check out the two spectrums, even if they are in somewhat different format they look pretty much the same.

Led Teknik / @Grow Lights Australia, who are also sponsors here: their board tests at 2.7ppf/2w @ 240w


Here's black dog


I think they claim 1.8 or so for efficiency; GLA gives you 50% more light per watt, no fans to break and if any it looks slightly fuller spectrum. They are at least comparable in price, if not BD being a bit more $.

Then factor in that you need the 800w light from BD to get a similar output to GLAs 470 kit... So extra expensive upfront and then with extra costs of 50% for ever, or until that fan goes out...

Haha! I swear we didn't copy them! We have a lot more Far Red in our spectrum. But I will say in Black Dog's defence that they were leaders in spectrum way back when most LED grow lights were either blurples or plain whites. All those fans won't help efficiency but I believe the fixture was designed before the days of Quantum Boards and bar lights so the only way to dissipate heat when you use high-power LEDs that close together inside a housing is with mass airflow.

BTW, our lights are about half the price when you compare watt for watt. But our design is much simpler and we spend money on LEDs instead of housings, fans and controllers etc. There is nothing wrong with the Black Dog spectrum – I like it.

First off, the spectrum graphs they show are utter BS- and why are there two, different spectrum graphs on the first page? The first spectrum graph is NOT from any LED-based light, the spikey nature of the spectrum graph shows that; the 2nd graph is from an LED but has been manipulated to look like it has UV. If you click “find out more” under “The Full Spectrum” there’s actually a 3rd, different spectrum graph that they claim is theirs that shows they DO NOT have UV, like they claim so many times… They brag about having UV, but when you click “find out more” they admit “This particular High Light also has a small amount of UVA and near-UV” which is NOT from UV diodes but accidental, inconsequential amounts of UV let off by every blue (and white) LED in existence. They’re doing the same slimy manipulation that so many companies do. If they had any consequential amount of UV, they wouldn’t be able to get above 3.0 umol/J (which, just like Fohse, they probably are lying about anyhow). So yeah, I'd say you certainly didn't copy Black Dog lol

I just want to get back to the original Point by saying that the light is an exceptional product that has proven to me it's quality of spectrum.That was never in question the only issue I found was its failure under such a short amount of run time. So just to update as of this morning I have been contacted Again by black dog and they have agreed under this circumstance to cover the labor and take care of the repair at no cost to me. I am truly Blown Away by the response I have received from them it has far exceeded any expectation I would have had. Within 24 hours of contacting them about the problem I received an email from one of their customer service reps who issued me a return label as soon as the package was in transit I received an email from their repair department. I can say without a doubt that they truly care about every single customer they have even a little guy like me who bought their smallest product. This Thread was never intended to trash Black dog. They have gone out of their way to confirm which I had believed to be true. They have a quality product and an even better customer service experience so far. I am very grateful and pleasantly surprised by the way they are taking care of this issue for me.

EE BRUCE LEROY said:

First off, the spectrum graphs they show are utter BS- and why are there two, different spectrum graphs on the first page? The first spectrum graph is NOT from any LED-based light, the spikey nature of the spectrum graph shows that; the 2nd graph is from an LED but has been manipulated to look like it has UV. If you click “find out more” under “The Full Spectrum” there’s actually a 3rd, different spectrum graph that they claim is theirs that shows they DO NOT have UV, like they claim so many times… They brag about having UV, but when you click “find out more” they admit “This particular High Light also has a small amount of UVA and near-UV” which is NOT from UV diodes but accidental, inconsequential amounts of UV let off by every blue (and white) LED in existence. They’re doing the same slimy manipulation that so many companies do. If they had any consequential amount of UV, they wouldn’t be able to get above 3.0 umol/J (which, just like Fohse, they probably are lying about anyhow). So yeah, I'd say you certainly didn't copy Black Dog lol

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ooooo salty... litterally everything you have wrote is wrong...

grotbags said:

ooooo salty... litterally everything you have wrote is wrong...

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Not salty at all just what it looks like to me.
Wish everyone a happy 4th and happy growing

Fatleg77 said:

The very first light I bought was a black dog phytomax 200 LED.if you're not familiar these lights they are handmade supposedly high-quality products based out of Colorado. the light was approximately $650 for 200 Watts.ran the light for a single plant grow everything went fine but realized I needed more lighting for my space and I ordered the timber 4vl3500 k. I have been using the Timber without issue but decided to use the black dog on another single plant run.installed the Lite and got the grow running and noticed that one quadrant of the light board was not working and one of the three fans had failed.I swapped in the timber and I'm currently Trucking along but just wanted to give this as a warning to anyone looking at buying from Black Dog Led. after communicating with their service department they informed me that I would be responsible for all shipping cost and labor and that they would Supply any parts necessary to correct the problem .I don't disagree with their warranty and I understand they are running a business but if their light is only good for one single plant run before it fails I certainly would never buy from them again and don't feel that I should be liable for any cost to repair such an expensive lite with so few hours. I really hate to leave a poor review but if it helps someone else from wasting their money then it's worth it

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Thanks for the heads up.

EE BRUCE LEROY said:

First off, the spectrum graphs they show are utter BS- and why are there two, different spectrum graphs on the first page? The first spectrum graph is NOT from any LED-based light, the spikey nature of the spectrum graph shows that; the 2nd graph is from an LED but has been manipulated to look like it has UV. If you click “find out more” under “The Full Spectrum” there’s actually a 3rd, different spectrum graph that they claim is theirs that shows they DO NOT have UV, like they claim so many times… They brag about having UV, but when you click “find out more” they admit “This particular High Light also has a small amount of UVA and near-UV” which is NOT from UV diodes but accidental, inconsequential amounts of UV let off by every blue (and white) LED in existence. They’re doing the same slimy manipulation that so many companies do. If they had any consequential amount of UV, they wouldn’t be able to get above 3.0 umol/J (which, just like Fohse, they probably are lying about anyhow). So yeah, I'd say you certainly didn't copy Black Dog lol

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You're an idiot. I helped design those lights – along with LED Teknik – so I know what I'm talking about. Ever heard of narrow band phosphor?

No, I didn't think so. Here's our custom 3000K three-die narrow band phosphor 3030 package.


Here's Nichia's, which is a single die and less efficient.


As you clearly know nothing about LED technology, here is s link for you: https://www.led-professional.com/all/advanced-phosphor-technology-boosts-cri-and-efficacy

As for the graphs – I assume you are talking about the home page of www.growlightsaustralia.com – then there is a very simple explanation: the first graph is the result of a goniometer test that is one of the most accurate light measuring devices on the market (and costs something like US$50,000 per unit).

The second graph is a spectrograph from a common Lighting Passport hand-held spectrometer (mine, actually). If you are confused, it's because you have no experience with any of this type of equipment and, as I have already stated, know very little about LED technology. Certainly not enough to start criticising companies that put more time and research into these things than you spend time on these forums.

The third graph you reference is the old (original) High Light spectrum – not the High Light 420 spectrum. You don't even know the difference, do you? And you think you're qualified to comment on what LED spectrographs are supposed to look like? Give me a fucking break!

EE BRUCE LEROY said:

“This particular High Light also has a small amount of UVA and near-UV” which is NOT from UV diodes but accidental, inconsequential amounts of UV let off by every blue (and white) LED in existence.

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Aboslute bullshit. The near-UV and UVA come from a customised 3030 LED that is also a three-die chip with 2x 405nm dies and 1x 420nm die with a blue phosphor coating. Here it is on its own. The "blue (and white) LED in existence" chips you are referring to all use 450nm pumps. I'm sure you knew that. Not.



Now, if you were mathematically inclined – which I doubt – you would actually be able to calculate on paper (just like I did) the basic efficacy of our LED panel by multiplying the electrical efficiency by the quantum efficiency of radiation (QER) of each diode, and then calculating how many umol/j each diode emits as a proportion of the total number.

The final prodction PC Blues above are about 1.7 umol/j. However, they are offset by the fact we also have 660 monos (3.94 umol/j), 730 monos (3.64 umol/j), Nichia 757 series 5000K CRI70 (3.13 umol/j) and Nichia 757 3000K CRI80 (2.75 umol/j) and custom 3000K narrow band phosphors (2.77 umol/j as you can see above). All those efficacy levels are at certain currents, so you also need to know what current you plan to run to calculate the total figure. We make no secret that we hit 3.01 umol/j at 86.5W – which is clearly shown on the home page.

But I can also tell you that due to the fact we use so many 3-die chips – and we are one of the few (if not the only) companies doing this, our boards also have better efficiencies at higher currents: 2.69 umol/j at 5A (234.5W) – find me another LED panel with UVA, near-UV and almost 10% Far Red that is that efficienct at that wattage. Hint: you won't fine one!

And if you don't believe our figures, well I for one DGAF, but if you show me your testing equipment, I will ask GLA to send you a board to test for yourself. You do work for Black Dog, right? Or do you have some other agenda? Because you certainly don't have any experience with our products and I doubt any of us (GLA, LT, myself) have had any interactions with you.

With apologies to Black Dog, because I don't think they would have anyone as ignrorant as you working for them.

And apologies to everyone else. We've always been upfront about our claims and welcome anyone (who knows what they're doing) to test them.

EE BRUCE LEROY said:

First off, the spectrum graphs they show are utter BS- and why are there two, different spectrum graphs on the first page? The first spectrum graph is NOT from any LED-based light, the spikey nature of the spectrum graph shows that; the 2nd graph is from an LED but has been manipulated to look like it has UV. If you click “find out more” under “The Full Spectrum” there’s actually a 3rd, different spectrum graph that they claim is theirs that shows they DO NOT have UV, like they claim so many times… They brag about having UV, but when you click “find out more” they admit “This particular High Light also has a small amount of UVA and near-UV” which is NOT from UV diodes but accidental, inconsequential amounts of UV let off by every blue (and white) LED in existence. They’re doing the same slimy manipulation that so many companies do. If they had any consequential amount of UV, they wouldn’t be able to get above 3.0 umol/J (which, just like Fohse, they probably are lying about anyhow). So yeah, I'd say you certainly didn't copy Black Dog lol

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Just own up to it, your product is inferior and the only thing you bring as proof is calling the other guys liers. Weak as.

Rocket Soul said:

So after sales at black dog looks a bit cloak and dagger... Decent, if you got the right hook up.

Might be worth mentioning here for anyone looking into these blurple/extreme tweaked white spectrums:
Even if there was a super special sauce in black dogs spectrum the way they create it is far from the most efficient and sensible way. Check out the two spectrums, even if they are in somewhat different format they look pretty much the same.

Led Teknik / @Grow Lights Australia, who are also sponsors here: their board tests at 2.7ppf/2w @ 240w
View attachment 4934528

Here's black dog
View attachment 4934530

I think they claim 1.8 or so for efficiency; GLA gives you 50% more light per watt, no fans to break and if any it looks slightly fuller spectrum. They are at least comparable in price, if not BD being a bit more $.

Then factor in that you need the 800w light from BD to get a similar output to GLAs 470 kit... So extra expensive upfront and then with extra costs of 50% for ever, or until that fan goes out...

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Actually, I have to correct myself. Black dog phytomax 1000 tests out as 1.3 ppf /w in expanded par range, not 1.8. that means one 470w GLA unit would replace their 1000w unit.

EE BRUCE LEROY said:

Hey guys - lot's of misinformation here. If the goal is to look the best on paper - then yes, go with the cheapest light full of white and a few Red LED's. Or better yet - go all RED LED's and you'll get some crazy numbers. Looks great on paper - but not what grows the best Cannabis. I've been growing Cannabis for over 30 years and have used many different lights in my time and can say I've never had better results than with Black Dog. Questions?? Ask away happy to help. I just couldn't help but respond to this thread with all of the incorrect info. Happy Growing!

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So you thought you would join the party with your own "misinformation" did you? Like the comment below? I didn't read your other comments prior to the one above, but now I don't feel so bad for ripping you a new one.

EE BRUCE LEROY said:

White light looks bright to the human eye but is actually the opposite of what plants use to photosynthesize.

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Nah, sunlight isn't white and plants don't photosynthesise it, do they?

You are talking about green light – which is where lumens are weighted (550nm) – and even then you are wrong: green is one of the most efficiently photosynthesised wavelengths. In fact, it is arguably the reason plants are green: it may be precisely because green light penetrates deeper into the leaf cell structure to activate chloroplasts not normally activated by other wavelengths that plants reflect much of the green light they receive into the lower canopy (because they don't need as much of it). Energy-wise, red is more efficient, and far red also penetrates deep into the cell structure of leaves (just like green), however plants also need a small amount of blue to regulate stomata and root growth, among other things.

If you've been growing for 30 years – versus my almost 40 years – then all I can say is you haven't learned much. Maybe you thought my partner was ripping on Black Dog, but that wasn't the case at all. Good growing spectra are not exclusive. No-one is saying Black Dog has a poor spectrum – quite the opposite, in fact. It was simply pointed out that their fixtures need to drive all those fans and use older LED technology that is not as efficient. Things like fan noise and electricity consumption are certainly factors to consider in indoor grows. I'm suprised you haven't realised that.

Fatleg77 said:

The very first light I bought was a black dog phytomax 200 LED.if you're not familiar these lights they are handmade supposedly high-quality products based out of Colorado. the light was approximately $650 for 200 Watts.ran the light for a single plant grow everything went fine but realized I needed more lighting for my space and I ordered the timber 4vl3500 k. I have been using the Timber without issue but decided to use the black dog on another single plant run.installed the Lite and got the grow running and noticed that one quadrant of the light board was not working and one of the three fans had failed.I swapped in the timber and I'm currently Trucking along but just wanted to give this as a warning to anyone looking at buying from Black Dog Led. after communicating with their service department they informed me that I would be responsible for all shipping cost and labor and that they would Supply any parts necessary to correct the problem .I don't disagree with their warranty and I understand they are running a business but if their light is only good for one single plant run before it fails I certainly would never buy from them again and don't feel that I should be liable for any cost to repair such an expensive lite with so few hours. I really hate to leave a poor review but if it helps someone else from wasting their money then it's worth it

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Bro same thing years ago for me, went from a Kind led to Black Dog then found out that the black dog wasn’t cutting it and have been using timber for the last 4 years

.

I've been growing with a BD 1000W LED for two years now. I've been happy with the size of my buds and their potency, though this is the only type of LED I have used so I have noting to compare it to.

My only complaint about the BD light is that it's a centre of the tent fixture that radiates the lion's share of the light straight down to the middle of the tent. About 2 square feet of empty space in my garden right now.

I'm from Canada and we're only allowed 4 plants per grow, there's no plant in the middle of the light footprint and all that light is wasted.

The Scorpion Diablo solves this with arms reaching over where each of the plants would be. Don't need the middle arm.

Starting to think now towards my next light purchase.

.



.

best way to shut down idiots is facts--- well down @Prawn Connery , @Grow Lights Australia , @Rocket Soul , and a few others ..

Ah thanks @Scuzzman but I didn't mean to start an argument! The only thing I can add to prawn's posts is that the reason why I posted two different spectrographs on the website is because most other manufacturers post similar hand-help graphs on theirs so it's something familiar and comparable. You have to realise that most hand-held spectrometers only measure every 8-10nm so the peaks are always rounded whereas the goniometer measures every 1-2nm, so it records every peak and looks a lot more "spiky". That's why the two graphs are not identical even though they are exactly the same spectrum. Maybe I have to change the website for those who don't realise this and think there is something "fishy" about the two graphs. But I can assure you, they are the same.

EE BRUCE LEROY said:

First off, the spectrum graphs they show are utter BS- and why are there two, different spectrum graphs on the first page? The first spectrum graph is NOT from any LED-based light, the spikey nature of the spectrum graph shows that; the 2nd graph is from an LED but has been manipulated to look like it has UV. If you click “find out more” under “The Full Spectrum” there’s actually a 3rd, different spectrum graph that they claim is theirs that shows they DO NOT have UV, like they claim so many times… They brag about having UV, but when you click “find out more” they admit “This particular High Light also has a small amount of UVA and near-UV” which is NOT from UV diodes but accidental, inconsequential amounts of UV let off by every blue (and white) LED in existence. They’re doing the same slimy manipulation that so many companies do. If they had any consequential amount of UV, they wouldn’t be able to get above 3.0 umol/J (which, just like Fohse, they probably are lying about anyhow). So yeah, I'd say you certainly didn't copy Black Dog lol

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I hate to break it to you but fohse is on point. They put down some power. Black dog has been and still is a shitastic company when it comes to producing lights. I put them in the same category as kind and most other rainbow light companies out there. I wouldn’t take them if they were giving them away. Watched a grow do clones under the BD and HLG 550 and the 550 won every time. To note the BD was their pytomax 1000 or whatever they call it. Soooooo BD not the best choice for you’re lighting needs.

So long story short I shipped the light back in at basically no cost to myself(cost me 4 bucks) I guess there label paid all but that. I received various emails in the following 48 hours from different departments at Black Dog letting me know what was happening with the light and this morning I received a final email saying that it had been repaired and was on its way back at no cost to me. I was also given the tracking #. I have to say I am completely stunned at how fast they took care of this problem and how professional the communication was throughout the short process. I'm not afraid to say that this was probably one of the best customer service experiences I have ever had in my life so kudos to Black Dog for doing the right thing and standing behind their product

Fatleg77 said:

So long story short I shipped the light back in at basically no cost to myself(cost me 4 bucks) I guess there label paid all but that. I received various emails in the following 48 hours from different departments at Black Dog letting me know what was happening with the light and this morning I received a final email saying that it had been repaired and was on its way back at no cost to me. I was also given the tracking #. I have to say I am completely stunned at how fast they took care of this problem and how professional the communication was throughout the short process. I'm not afraid to say that this was probably one of the best customer service experiences I have ever had in my life so kudos to Black Dog for doing the right thing and standing behind their product

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I bet this wouldn’t have gone so smooth if they didn’t have their reps spying on this post.

just sayin

Rocket Soul said:

Leave the review on their website, explain that p
the light only lasted for one grow until you had to have it serviced at own cost (minus parts, which is likely less than shipping and labor or either or). Take a screen shot in case they just delete it.

Fair enough we do clank down on black dog for reasons mentioned above but I find it a bit harsh to pick on OP: this post have probably not changed the rhmind of anyone here already but this is the first I ever hear of their after sales which I assumed be at least decent after hearing all their fan boys enthusiasm, thx for letting us know.

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So I have

Rocket Soul said:

Actually, I have to correct myself. Black dog phytomax 1000 tests out as 1.3 ppf /w in expanded par range, not 1.8. that means one 470w GLA unit would replace their 1000w unit.

Black Dog LED - PhytoMAX 1000 Goniometer Lab Report

Test results reported for: Black Dog LED Samples Covered in Report: PhytoMAX 1000 CSA Report: CHIH004-070 Original issue date: 3/29/2017 Revision Issue Date: – Test Conditions Test Date: March 20, 2017 Method: goniometer-spectroradiometer x-axis Alignment: 0.0 ± 0.001 m y-axis Alignment: 0.0...

chilledgrowlights.com

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So that is there old light if not mistaken. The photo max 2 would be there most

farmingfisherman said:

Am I making that up about dimmed down driver producing more heat? Looks to be a sweet light but what exactly is it supposed to be replacing, double ended HPS? 1000 watts of led has got to be freaking intense! Imagine if you were outside at night how far away you could see that lit up?

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I don't know about that light but I plugged up why 1000 when I first got it and left It on to see how much it would heat up my room. Left and cMe back when it was dark. And my back yard was ugh up light Christmas from the light coming out the window Hhah