ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Tl;dr
The 315W CMH replaced the 400W CMH, for good reason; longer life, less watts, equivalent output thanks to the sexy new digital low frequency square wave ballast.
MH all the way
- Thread starter bravedave
- Start date
The 315W CMH replaced the 400W CMH, for good reason; longer life, less watts, equivalent output thanks to the sexy new digital low frequency square wave ballast.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Any way,,,I promised some more stuff on UVB testing I did....
Here's a post I spoke on that in....
https://www.rollitup.org/t/about-the-uvb-light.797361/
Start with reading that and ask questions at your leisure while dig for the more complete old one (to see if I can save typing time).. I found one that I made a comment on in 2011 and the numbers are incorrect math - ignore!
Ask questions for details and I'll try and answer.
Doc
MORE to add.....
Here's a tad more info.
If your running SOG/SCROG and feel this might be fun to try! Don't get the cheap lizard bulbs....you want the T5 HO's 10.0 uvb for reptiles. These run the proper spectrum in the 275nm - 325nm range that's the goal for your trials. I ran these in 4 of the 8 sites (alternating) for bulbs in an 8 spot fixture over a Blue Cheese SOG (last 2 weeks of flower) in a side by side test with HID 600w in side by side 4x4 tents.
Results. Tested by iron labs.
UVB supplemented = 25.31 total THC content
HID straight HPS 600w = 22.68 total THC content
This was replicated 3 times with different strains. The results with the UVB ahead in each by differing amounts.
Strains used were Blue Cheeze - ChemDog #4 - White widow - KC Jones - Ex. Cheese and SSHaze...
I still found it as kinda a pain and dropped the project.
So, OK when I did the MV I did try the time of day and length of exposure too....
Odd that the time of day made a differing impact.....
More balanced effect in spreading it out for mins per hr....Most UV exposure is earlier in the day in nature.
MV bulbs had to be at the far end of 1k distance's from the canopy 20-24 worked better then 18 as 18 then tended to actually burn the plant into early death.....Most testing was on SCROG or supercropped canopies. I did do some on plants grown to full size and as in the link I stated that it "fell off" as you got farther from the light (MV)....Progressive harvesting worked well here!
I said that Iron labs did the testing and they did do a share with another share being done by a now uncertified lab......He still does some other testing for me - good guy. Just didn't want to grease the right political wheel to gain his cert back....
To run plants commercially and employ UV is going to give uneven results due to the penetration factor.....I, nor anyone else running a commercial op can not afford to steer from the timed rotation to "selective/progressive" harvest for the average 10+ % in rise...Not to mention the rise in electrical cost.
I felt that the plant was in the most part. Producing more trich's with then without .....If your outdoors or know the right nutrients to "tickle". You can achieve the same result in so far as increasing the trich production.
I still feel that the "effect" of "with" is better then not....
Please feel free to ask direct use questions to anything you feel lacking.....I'm tired and in seek of AC and a nap..
Doc
Here's a post I spoke on that in....
https://www.rollitup.org/t/about-the-uvb-light.797361/
Start with reading that and ask questions at your leisure while dig for the more complete old one (to see if I can save typing time).. I found one that I made a comment on in 2011 and the numbers are incorrect math - ignore!
Ask questions for details and I'll try and answer.
Doc
MORE to add.....
Here's a tad more info.
If your running SOG/SCROG and feel this might be fun to try! Don't get the cheap lizard bulbs....you want the T5 HO's 10.0 uvb for reptiles. These run the proper spectrum in the 275nm - 325nm range that's the goal for your trials. I ran these in 4 of the 8 sites (alternating) for bulbs in an 8 spot fixture over a Blue Cheese SOG (last 2 weeks of flower) in a side by side test with HID 600w in side by side 4x4 tents.
Results. Tested by iron labs.
UVB supplemented = 25.31 total THC content
HID straight HPS 600w = 22.68 total THC content
This was replicated 3 times with different strains. The results with the UVB ahead in each by differing amounts.
Strains used were Blue Cheeze - ChemDog #4 - White widow - KC Jones - Ex. Cheese and SSHaze...
I still found it as kinda a pain and dropped the project.
So, OK when I did the MV I did try the time of day and length of exposure too....
Odd that the time of day made a differing impact.....
More balanced effect in spreading it out for mins per hr....Most UV exposure is earlier in the day in nature.
MV bulbs had to be at the far end of 1k distance's from the canopy 20-24 worked better then 18 as 18 then tended to actually burn the plant into early death.....Most testing was on SCROG or supercropped canopies. I did do some on plants grown to full size and as in the link I stated that it "fell off" as you got farther from the light (MV)....Progressive harvesting worked well here!
I said that Iron labs did the testing and they did do a share with another share being done by a now uncertified lab......He still does some other testing for me - good guy. Just didn't want to grease the right political wheel to gain his cert back....
To run plants commercially and employ UV is going to give uneven results due to the penetration factor.....I, nor anyone else running a commercial op can not afford to steer from the timed rotation to "selective/progressive" harvest for the average 10+ % in rise...Not to mention the rise in electrical cost.
I felt that the plant was in the most part. Producing more trich's with then without .....If your outdoors or know the right nutrients to "tickle". You can achieve the same result in so far as increasing the trich production.
I still feel that the "effect" of "with" is better then not....
Please feel free to ask direct use questions to anything you feel lacking.....I'm tired and in seek of AC and a nap..
Doc
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greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
I know you are a knowledgeable grower.
but I respectfully disagree, I've grown the same strains for years and years, and when I lived at a MUCH higher elevation, my herb was noticeably stronger.
to the degree where I didn't enjoy it.
the strains were jack herer, J1, and Bluedream.
I've been smoking and growing pot since the late 80s/early 90s.
without a doubt the herb growin at the top of that mountains was a total different high, more racy, more visual, and like I said, not really pleasant.
Although I did like the "sparkly-world" effect that it had...
bulletwithwings
Active Member
MH does give a little better quality but the bigger difference is definitely yield where hps reigns superior
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Fascinating stuff, I'd like to hear more details about the MV light you used. Did it work with a standard magnetic or digital thousand watt ballast?
bulletwithwings
Active Member
Kalebaiden
Well-Known Member
To all posters in this thread, it has been found out that the user bulletwithwings is a fraud. Do not believe anything he says, please wait for another member to answer any questions you have.
I repeat;
Do not rely on any information from the a fore mentioned user. Thank you for your time.
I repeat;
Do not rely on any information from the a fore mentioned user. Thank you for your time.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Ok, sure nuff.
Actually it (Mercury Vapor bulbs) is only available in 400w bulbs.......
I have a few of old 400w Digital Lumitec's laying about and that along with a paper i read on UVB got the whole thing going...
For 400w the bulb's put out what liked to cook the plant in strength fast....
First try with them was with the lights on 8 of the 12 hrs (standalone - not as supplemental) of lights on time. Result was plant cooked dead by UV in 1 week! This was a Blue cheese plant and it was "climbing the peak" when she came to an early radioactive demise! The thing was, once dried and cured.....The smoke was blindingly intense!
This got me to pick up the testing again......Out came the research and I settled on only min per hr and set up another timer (programmable) with the MV set up again.
I should say here THAT run was in a 2x2 ebb tray set up, I build for fun and just to see if it would be a good design....Metal frame with res below and tray above that. 4 ft of vert grow space with light supports and mini fan mounting plates.
I ran Hesi hydro nutrients as directed with no supplementing of P,K or Si.
The next test runs were in a full size 3 gallon pot Ebb system, running Hesi nutrients and Pro-Tekt Si......I added the Si for plant strength, heat tolerance and P regulation. 8 plants, 4 tents. 3 tents running MV as supplemental lighting and 1 tent as "control".
This was then rerun with the same strain B.C. The big change was in trying out some ideas I got by reading a Mel Thomas "Cannabis Cultivation" book given to me by a friend......I based my time "on" formula from that.......The notes here say I ran 6 min an hr "on" time as supplemental in one tent.
8 min supplemental in tent 2.
and 10 min supplemental in tent 3.
Tent 4 got no MV for testing comparison/control
This was done in what Mel called "3 peak exposure hrs" or something like that, which I took to mean as Highest light exposure hrs of the day.....So.
I ran them on hrs 7,8 and 9 in the first serious test run in all 3 tents for 10 min each...
And the results were good..That is the percentage #'s I listed above as an average in TOTAL Thc rise. I'll note that there was a rise in trich production and as opinion, I felt they had bigger heads vs. the control one's!
This test was then repeated with different "on hrs" spread through the tents evenly, adding 2 more 4x4 tents.
Tent 1: Hrs 8,9 and 10
Tent 2: Hrs 7,8 and 9
Tent 3: Hrs 6,7 and 8
Tent 4: Hrs 5,6 and 7
Tent 5: Hrs 4,5 and 6
With tent 6 being control
The strains were added as 4 different per. Chem, KC Jones, Ex Cheese and WW. (The SSH was done later with the repti bulbs and in SCROG)
The results did change among tents, with tents 2,3 and 4 giving the best results and tent 3 giving the highest rise...
The best was the Chem and it was 23.16 % in control and 26.48 % in MV supplemental.....That's over a 17% rise!
This had now begun to approach a year+ into testing and I got tired of the time and effort I had to do to control that many tents vs open room needs and scrapped the tent testing....
I ran the repti light test later as a "fun" thing to compare, when I was bored......They ran at the same times as the tent # 3 and with 13 min. of exposure time......Resulting rise was almost a statistical tie with the #'s in tent #2...
More details?
Ask!
Doc
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
@Dr. Who you should know better than to ask me if I have questions, lol
1. Lighting setup; what kind of fixture was the MV in?
2. How far from the canopy was it?
3. How much square footage was the MV lighting?
4. What other lighting were you using it with?
5. I have just one 400W ballast, a mag that runs HPS. I'll get whatever ballast you suggest for my own testing...
6. Where is a good place to get an MV lamp (preferably for vertical operation) and ballast?
And, I do have a great rig for head to head runs here.
1. Lighting setup; what kind of fixture was the MV in?
2. How far from the canopy was it?
3. How much square footage was the MV lighting?
4. What other lighting were you using it with?
5. I have just one 400W ballast, a mag that runs HPS. I'll get whatever ballast you suggest for my own testing...
6. Where is a good place to get an MV lamp (preferably for vertical operation) and ballast?
And, I do have a great rig for head to head runs here.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
@ttystikk he,he,he I knew....
Here is the exact bulb - 3rd one down (look who makes it - EYE the makers of Hortilux)
https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/400-watt-standard-mercury-vapor-lamps/
NOTE: They "DO" make a 1K MV that I never looked at before but, I never tried one. I found the 400 to be enough as of the "burn" on the first test. They do have a UV danger notice on the package.....Be aware!
1: I used an open "bat wing". I never did a "loose" Horizontal run - You may just try that too..
2: Aprox. 25-26" I did move it back and forth with the HPS, day to day to cover each plant equally over the course of the testing.
3: 16sqft 4x4x7 tents. 2 plants per for test #1&2 and 4 plants per in test #3
4: In tent test 1 - 600w HPS. In 2 and 3 a 1K HPS
5: I ran a Lumintec 400 digital. IF I remember right....They can be struck by magnetic ballasts.....I would ask a tech at either EYE or 1K bulbs, if it will for sure!
6: Gave you the bulb store in the above link...Any 400 would do, IWI.
I still have 4 of the 6 and gave 2 to an employee at one of the grows. He still runs tent 3 style for his personal.....I gotta say that my wife won't smoke his bud....She gets "too high" and has to "lay down".....She does dabs too and I find that interesting eh?
Doc
I forgot to add this.....The employee,,he has had tested a ghost cut OG out at 31.44% and that is the highest test I have ever seen! The buzz is simply insane.....It's almost like eating and smoking combined in a way.....Focusing on anything for a time is almost hard.....Your mind wanders - big time! Strain wise he sticks to only running 3-4...
Here is the exact bulb - 3rd one down (look who makes it - EYE the makers of Hortilux)
https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/400-watt-standard-mercury-vapor-lamps/
NOTE: They "DO" make a 1K MV that I never looked at before but, I never tried one. I found the 400 to be enough as of the "burn" on the first test. They do have a UV danger notice on the package.....Be aware!
1: I used an open "bat wing". I never did a "loose" Horizontal run - You may just try that too..
2: Aprox. 25-26" I did move it back and forth with the HPS, day to day to cover each plant equally over the course of the testing.
3: 16sqft 4x4x7 tents. 2 plants per for test #1&2 and 4 plants per in test #3
4: In tent test 1 - 600w HPS. In 2 and 3 a 1K HPS
5: I ran a Lumintec 400 digital. IF I remember right....They can be struck by magnetic ballasts.....I would ask a tech at either EYE or 1K bulbs, if it will for sure!
6: Gave you the bulb store in the above link...Any 400 would do, IWI.
I still have 4 of the 6 and gave 2 to an employee at one of the grows. He still runs tent 3 style for his personal.....I gotta say that my wife won't smoke his bud....She gets "too high" and has to "lay down".....She does dabs too and I find that interesting eh?
Doc
I forgot to add this.....The employee,,he has had tested a ghost cut OG out at 31.44% and that is the highest test I have ever seen! The buzz is simply insane.....It's almost like eating and smoking combined in a way.....Focusing on anything for a time is almost hard.....Your mind wanders - big time! Strain wise he sticks to only running 3-4...
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captain chronizzle
Well-Known Member
I use both. I stagger the hps and mh. Run them on a flip-flop and get the best of both spectrums. One zig-zag row of hps, one zig-zag row of mh.
AllenHaze
Well-Known Member
I'm interested in trying this at some point but I have some questions. What is, "quality over yield?" Bigger yields tend to have higher calyx:leaf ratios - that is what defines them as having big yields in relationship to their overall mass. Quality, is what, potency? That is strain dependent.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
A gross overgeneralization, as anyone who's done this for awhile knows you can grow the very same pheno well or poorly. While the absolute potential may be genetically set, nurture is by no means a fiat accompli!I'm interested in trying this at some point but I have some questions. What is, "quality over yield?" Bigger yields tend to have higher calyx:leaf ratios - that is what defines them as having big yields in relationship to their overall mass. Quality, is what, potency? That is strain dependent.
bravedave
Well-Known Member
Wow, statements like that may sink a number of products and the cartoonists who design for them.I'm interested in trying this at some point but I have some questions. What is, "quality over yield?" Bigger yields tend to have higher calyx:leaf ratios - that is what defines them as having big yields in relationship to their overall mass. Quality, is what, potency? That is strain dependent.
Certainly potency is strain dependent but i see that as the limiting factor not the only factor. This is about squeezing everything one can out of the strain they have.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Quality over yieldI'm interested in trying this at some point but I have some questions. What is, "quality over yield?" Bigger yields tend to have higher calyx:leaf ratios - that is what defines them as having big yields in relationship to their overall mass. Quality, is what, potency? That is strain dependent.
The best results you can get.....just what can you push the plant to do?
It could be many things. In my book, quality is flavor and buzz. Buzz can be covering several things and yes, they are what genetics limit it to......Can you enhance that? I think UV does....
Yields are for the money grubbers......I'll take a kick ass quality plant over huge yields everyday.....My patients don't care about a G13 plant yielding massive buds. The G13 buds will get attention once. If it ain't fly or something better is on the shelf. That will sell and the G13 will sit.
*G13 used as an example of a big yield plant only*
Understand that?
Doc
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
hey all, just put up new journal please check it out.. this is my first run with 2 315 watt ceramic discharge lamps, went from 1200 watts of hps to 630 watts of cdl over the same area.. plants are 3 weeks into flower.. so far im really pleased with the cdl lamps..
https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-315-watt-cdl-grow.880895/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-315-watt-cdl-grow.880895/
Bear420
Well-Known Member
those are some beauty's very nicecare to post your frosted flakes
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
If I planned to run this 400W MV over a large trellis, say over 100 ft, would I want to run it for longer periods? It would always be a couple of feet or more from the canopy.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
100ft.....!!! I would guess you would have to move it down along the line or run multiple lights.
Wait,,,don't you run it as a circle or a square? Lights in the center?
Longer lights on times give the dreaded burn factor.....10min tops per hr - three peak hrs......You could adjust from there to experiment....
Doc
Wait,,,don't you run it as a circle or a square? Lights in the center?
Longer lights on times give the dreaded burn factor.....10min tops per hr - three peak hrs......You could adjust from there to experiment....
Doc