Minimum wage in mathematical terms

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Padawanbater2 said:
When you are left with no other option, you must take what you can get. I don't see how this negates attempts to make ones situation better
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If one wanted to improve their situation, they take the experience they gained from the shitty job and get a slightly less shitty job, and so on until the jobs available arnt shitty anymore.

Isnt that what most successful people did to get to where they are?
 
Yes, that's how it would work in a more perfect world. Unfortunately, here in the real world, less shittier jobs just don't pop up out of nowhere. As already addressed earlier, people are retiring later, unemployment is higher meaning there are less positions available, and people are selling their labor for much less than it's worth because competition for employment is much higher. Meanwhile you have multinational corporations asking their employees to provide food for their coworkers to compensate for such a low wage. Do you know how much the Walton family is worth?
 
Im reminded of something we talked about in the employment law class I took. After the black death ravaged 14th century England, the nobles got all pissed off at the peasants because since half of them had just died there wasn't enough people around to do all the work that needed to be done. So the peasants started demanding higher wages, and they got it. Well the king passed two laws addressing the issue, and of course he took the nobles side.

It became illegal to work for more than what pre-plague wages were. So the peasants were forced to go to work for their pre-plague wages. However, it didn't last long because that left some people who needed workers without workers. So then they were glad to start offering the peasants more money so they could have someone do the shit that needed done. It was a fucking mess.

Employer/employee relationships are supply/demand relationships.

I hear some people talking about a $15 min wage. That would be absurd. The result there would be massive job reductions, which would lead to lots of folks working 'off the books' for probably what is less than the current min wage.

Im all for raising the min wage, slowly over time to adjust for natural inflation.

But I think all companies should also be required to not only pay dividends to stockholders, but to employees as well. They should share in the success of the company and be given a reason to give a fuck about who they work for.
 
I'm all for not having any inflation at all ever. Then there will not be a problem with having to raise the min wage all the time.
 
schuylaar said:
actually, the government will need to take action on these employers, like they always do..it's a proven fact employers cannot be trusted to "do the right thing" for their employees..just a matter of time.
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Not my fault your Eves gave you an improper brain.
 
its a scam that is set up against you you could say lets do this or that but ur still playing within the fact of the scam. can you vote the government away? no they dont plan on going anywhere they are just going to keep feeding u option a or option b or maybe even c but these "options" all belong to their game plan, every one would have trouble fixing it as it was a scam from the beginning, just look at the indians
 
donmagicjuan said:
its a scam that is set up against you you could say lets do this or that but ur still playing within the fact of the scam. can you vote the government away? no they dont plan on going anywhere they are just going to keep feeding u option a or option b or maybe even c but these "options" all belong to their game plan, every one would have trouble fixing it as it was a scam from the beginning, just look at the indians
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If you all came together and named me dictator for a decade, after which I would voluntarily steep down, I would fix it.
 
BigNBushy said:
Im reminded of something we talked about in the employment law class I took. After the black death ravaged 14th century England, the nobles got all pissed off at the peasants because since half of them had just died there wasn't enough people around to do all the work that needed to be done. So the peasants started demanding higher wages, and they got it. Well the king passed two laws addressing the issue, and of course he took the nobles side.

It became illegal to work for more than what pre-plague wages were. So the peasants were forced to go to work for their pre-plague wages. However, it didn't last long because that left some people who needed workers without workers. So then they were glad to start offering the peasants more money so they could have someone do the shit that needed done. It was a fucking mess.

Employer/employee relationships are supply/demand relationships.

I hear some people talking about a $15 min wage. That would be absurd. The result there would be massive job reductions, which would lead to lots of folks working 'off the books' for probably what is less than the current min wage.

Im all for raising the min wage, slowly over time to adjust for natural inflation.

But I think all companies should also be required to not only pay dividends to stockholders, but to employees as well. They should share in the success of the company and be given a reason to give a fuck about who they work for.
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Employees can get a share of the dividend...

If their job comes with stock options or they actually invest in the company.

Employees trade their labour for currency, that's the beginning and the end. If we make an agreement to trade something and sign a contract, is it allowed to unilaterally demand additional terms from the other party?

Thats extortion, genius.
 
The day comes when a living wage is on the table perhaps, and the enemy watches waiting to land on a fairy tale that incites fear. It is as if no one knows or even heard of a living wage. These myths and the liars who perpetuate the subjugation are the ones we look at and measure success in this culture by.....pathetic. A day of a mans' life is worth 100.00 dollars minimum......end of story.
 
Harrekin said:
Employees can get a share of the dividend...

If their job comes with stock options or they actually invest in the company.

Employees trade their labour for currency, that's the beginning and the end. If we make an agreement to trade something and sign a contract, is it allowed to unilaterally demand additional terms from the other party?

Thats extortion, genius.
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The whole idea behind at will employment is that either the employee or employer can lather the arrangement or end it all together at anytime for any reason or no reason at all... Genius.
 
burgertime2010 said:
The day comes when a living wage is on the table perhaps, and the enemy watches waiting to land on a fairy tale that incites fear. It is as if no one knows or even heard of a living wage. These myths and the liars who perpetuate the subjugation are the ones we look at and measure success in this culture by.....pathetic. A day of a mans' life is worth 100.00 dollars minimum......end of story.
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Then minimum wage is on the mark... 8 x 8 = 64

8 goes into 24 three times. So if you work a 12 hour day, you got your hundo, roughly.
 
burgertime2010 said:
The day comes when a living wage is on the table perhaps, and the enemy watches waiting to land on a fairy tale that incites fear. It is as if no one knows or even heard of a living wage. These myths and the liars who perpetuate the subjugation are the ones we look at and measure success in this culture by.....pathetic. A day of a mans' life is worth 100.00 dollars minimum......end of story.
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and how much will the things you want and need cost when everybody is making $100/day?

burgerflipping would then be worth 3k a month for fucks sake, so the prices of EVERYTHING will shoot through the roof.

if you can find somebody to pay you $100 a day, i dont begrudge you that, but apparently if i feel somebody is worth LESS than that im cheating them?

there are some jobs any schlub can do, like posting crazy assertions on the interwebs, but other jobs require skills far in excess of smacking some keys and hitting the twatter post button.

if 100/day is the minimum wage, then the cats with skills who are in demand will have to be paid FAR more, resulting in 3k a month becoming the new poverty floor, and then youll be out there shouting at clouds demanding $200 a day as the minimum, then in a few months, whe zimbabwe style inflation catches up, youll NEED $400 a day just to keep up...

lern 2 real market forces ernie, bert is getting tired of footing the bill for your lifestyle.
 
Dr Kynes said:
and how much will the things you want and need cost when everybody is making $100/day?

burgerflipping would then be worth 3k a month for fucks sake, so the prices of EVERYTHING will shoot through the roof.

if you can find somebody to pay you $100 a day, i dont begrudge you that, but apparently if i feel somebody is worth LESS than that im cheating them?

there are some jobs any schlub can do, like posting crazy assertions on the interwebs, but other jobs require skills far in excess of smacking some keys and hitting the twatter post button.

if 100/day is the minimum wage, then the cats with skills who are in demand will have to be paid FAR more, resulting in 3k a month becoming the new poverty floor, and then youll be out there shouting at clouds demanding $200 a day as the minimum, then in a few months, whe zimbabwe style inflation catches up, youll NEED $400 a day just to keep up...

lern 2 real market forces ernie, bert is getting tired of footing the bill for your lifestyle.
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All I need to read is right here in the subtext. I have owned businesses' and never paid anyone less than 10 per hour....period. If you want a burger so cheap that the person who makes it isn't an issue than you don't deserve it. Look, perhaps 25,000 for a years worth of manual labor seems like a lot, fact is it ain't. I have been on both sides and as a boss my margins were 4x that......so a extra couple bucks wouldn't kill me. Also, I live in a place where cost of living is high. You pretend they don't feel that, I see them as friends that represent me and my company in my absence. You are commenting on my assertion? You make a sloppy ridiculous argument
 
canndo said:
yep, and the folks are still claiming it is because people (except themselves of course) are all lazy shiftless asshole who want a handout when the truth Is there are no jobs---- "why don't you just take ANYTHING?"
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There are no jobs???

And you think forcing employers to pay more when they dont even have the resources to hire people and expand is a good idea??
 
burgertime2010 said:
All I need to read is right here in the subtext. I have owned businesses' and never paid anyone less than 10 per hour....period. If you want a burger so cheap that the person who makes it isn't an issue than you don't deserve it. Look, perhaps 25,000 for a years worth of manual labor seems like a lot, fact is it ain't. I have been on both sides and as a boss my margins were 4x that......so a extra couple bucks wouldn't kill me. Also, I live in a place where cost of living is high. You pretend they don't feel that, I see them as friends that represent me and my company in my absence. You are commenting on my assertion? You make a sloppy ridiculous argument
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it's not just burgers.

the guy who stocks the shelves at the minimart, the guy who stand behind the counter waiting to be robbed at that mini mart, the guy who mops the floors at wal-mart, it adds up fast, and jobs any dolt can do should NOT pay tradesman's wages.

back in the 80's i worked min wage when it was 4.25/hour, and yet, cas cost .75 a gallon, a loaf of bread was .50 cents, a coke was .25 , the apartment i lived in was $300 a month (two bedrooms so i shared with another dude, bam, $150/month) etc etc etc. min wage has gone up in calif, to $8/hour, and that same loaf of Orowheat stone ground bread now cost $4, gas is hovering around $4/gallon, a two bedroom apt costs ~$900/month (~$600 for a studio, if you can believe that!) and the house i grew up in just sold for $350k, while my landlord bought it in 78 for 80k (and it is a dump, a 110 year old drafty farmhouse total ~2000 sq feet)

raising the minimum wade DOES increase the costs of everything you want and need, and all the while the nebbish econ-tards are shouting gleefully "What Inflation??"

the median income (and in fact all incomes below the top 2 quintiles) have LOST their purchasing power to the invisdible theif of inflation, and craeting MORE inflation will only erode that buying power further, so despite having to schlep around more cash, it just doesnt buy as much.
 
so much to say, so little time..here goes:

Red1966 said:
You're weren't talking about "average" workers, you were talking about the bottom of the barrel.
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ZOMFG..no offense but bucky is right, YOU ARE RACIST..

Red1966 said:
False choice. We don't have to accept either.
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yes, red, yes you do.. go put your bike away and clean up before dinner, your father will be home soon..
NLXSK1 said:
Because the government should not be involved at all. It is none of their business how little I would work for.
that goes for you too, your brother is already putting his bike away..
And your whole premise is flawed. You assume clothing costs x, you assume food costs x, you assume that it is a single person living in a single place and take no other types of accomodations (apartment sharing, etc) into account in your calculations.
the above speaks for itself..
It is not easy living on minimum wage but many people do it. Many of those people go on to better jobs.
really?..how?
You keep talking about the poor as a class of people like they can never get out.
get out?..this is about survival..a living wage is a right.

If you cannot find a job making more than minimum wage after a year or two of steady employment then it is not the employer that is the problem.
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:wall: for obvious reasons
NLXSK1 said:
The unemployment number is faked... The U6 number is much more accurate.

There are still millions less jobs out there than there were under that Nazi Bush...
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how many more excuses are you going to throw at the wall and hope it sticks?..besides, i already told you to put your bike away..
Harrekin said:
You lefties are fucking retarded.

The Burger Flipper likely signed a contract clearly outlining their remuneration and conditions, they accepted that contract willingly and yet it's the employer's fault they can't support their lifestyle on it?

Do lefties think those "evil employers" just grab people from the street and force them to work for minimum wage, with no chance of quitting?
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no, we are just good at math..and clearly you are not.
Harrekin said:
If one wanted to improve their situation, they take the experience they gained from the shitty job and get a slightly less shitty job, and so on until the jobs available arnt shitty anymore.

Isnt that what most successful people did to get to where they are?
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have you ever considered a career in economics?
Canna Sylvan said:
There's a big difference between growing weed on your owned or leased land, and a "freedom fighter" too. That is, I'd shoot your ass if it was my land. It's a sad time this isn't the frontier days when the government gave away land parcels to the first who laid claim.
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0_o what century are you living?
Harrekin said:
Employees can get a share of the dividend...

If their job comes with stock options or they actually invest in the company.

Employees trade their labour for currency, that's the beginning and the end. If we make an agreement to trade something and sign a contract, is it allowed to unilaterally demand additional terms from the other party?

Thats extortion, genius.
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hmmmmmmm..employer won't pay living wage..note to self: negotiate for profit share and stock options..that will work!


burgertime2010 said:
All I need to read is right here in the subtext. I have owned businesses' and never paid anyone less than 10 per hour....period. If you want a burger so cheap that the person who makes it isn't an issue than you don't deserve it. Look, perhaps 25,000 for a years worth of manual labor seems like a lot, fact is it ain't. I have been on both sides and as a boss my margins were 4x that......so a extra couple bucks wouldn't kill me. Also, I live in a place where cost of living is high. You pretend they don't feel that, I see them as friends that represent me and my company in my absence. You are commenting on my assertion? You make a sloppy ridiculous argument
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are you listening yet, Walmart & McDonalds?
 
Padawanbater2 said:
This is inconsistent with your argument. If you don't pay your workers a reasonable working wage, they will be required to use government assistance, ensuring government involvement.



I am saying that a single person living on his own should be able to support himself, that is, paying for food to eat, a place to live and clothes to wear, exactly how every single previous generation of Americans did.

Working to be below the poverty line is unacceptable, and it's sad to me to see other Americans supporting this idea as if a "take what you can get" mentality is what made this country great to begin with. What happened to striving for something better?



You are discounting many variables in this sweeping generalization; no higher positions opening, reliable commute to a higher paying job, poor people don't tend to have reliable transportation, babysitters, etc..

This point was almost not even worth responding to
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No, generations of people worked out ways to get by. Being out on your own and single right out of college is a relatively new thing.

You are discounting thousands of variables by assuming all businesses make enough money to automatically give their employees raises.

The poverty level is an artificial number generated by the government and raised and lowered arbitrarily.

The reason there are currently so few jobs is that the government is making the ones that exist much more expensive for employers. By adding Obamacare it is cutting down growth. You just want to make jobs even more expensive and somehow, employers are still going to have to pay. And that is a false assumption based on your current world view.

You are worth what you can produce. And whining isnt worth much....
 
This inflation is bad, especially with foods. The times merit thrift, I am not obtuse, I just believe hard work is worth that. It's a rarity I hear people supporting the status-quo as you do. We are gonna keep paying 12.00.
 

  • how many more excuses are you going to throw at the wall and hope it sticks?..besides, i already told you to put your bike away..​
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You have decided to resort to fictitious personal attacks like Bucky?

I am not throwing excuses, I am throwing solutions. You just do not want to hear them.

I started my own businesses years ago, I am making a nice living. I am explaining to other people how to do it and you are still chanting about making minimum wage higher.

How much does someone get paid for a job that is too expensive to offer?
 
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