My first organics trial - what am i missing?

I started mixing in Insect frass to my soil. Here is a well written description of what it is from the Build-A-Soil website:

"Insect Frass naturally contains the nutrition plants require, beneficial micro-organisms, and the only immediately plant-available source of chitin. Chitin fortifies a plant from the inside out, causing an "auto-immune" response that signals a plant to produce natural toxins which fend off its natural enemies like pests and fungal pathogens. The EPA says that chitin and chitosan (see FAQ's) defend against botrytis (grey mold), powdery mildew, early and late blight, fungal pathogens in the root zone (root rot) and root-feeding nematodes. Insect Frass does NOT cause a plant to kill beneficial insects or beneficial nematodes.

Insect Frass is NOT a pesticide.
Insect Frass is NOT a fungicide.
Insect Frass will NOT put insects into your garden.
Give your plants all the benefits of Insect Frass, without the bugs!"

Welcome to organics.
There are a lot of good Super Soil recipes on the web. They have gotten really good. I'll post mine if you want. It's BIG so you might want to scale it down. I decied to do the full batch of the nutes and divided it into 14 1 gal bagies and put it in the soil as needed. It lasts a long time that way because you can use the same soil several times. Just give it a little of the nutes to make up whats been used.

DancesWithWeeds said:

Welcome to organics.
There are a lot of good Super Soil recipes on the web. They have gotten really good. I'll post mine if you want. It's BIG so you might want to scale it down. I decied to do the full batch of the nutes and divided it into 14 1 gal bagies and put it in the soil as needed. It lasts a long time that way because you can use the same soil several times. Just give it a little of the nutes to make up whats been used.

Click to expand...

Just getting into this myself. I've heard of super soils. Is there a difference between super soil and True Living Organic soil?; I mean other than varying ingredients. Please post your recipe. Thanks.

RIS said:

Items Ordered	​
1 of: Down to Earth Organic Vegetable Garden Fertilizer 4-4-4, 5lb	​
1 of: Down to Earth Kelp Meal 1-0.1-2, 5lbs	​
1 of: Down to Earth 7805 7805-IPO Alfalfa Meal, 2.5-0.5-2.5 OMRI 5lb	​
1 of: Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust, 2 kg	​
1 of: Legigo Premium Sphagnum Moss Potting Mix- Natural Succulent Carnivorous Plants Moss Dried, Plant Growing Medium for Orchid Succulent Sarracenia Orchid Gardening Plants Reptiles, 20 QT(Appx.2.2lb)	​
1 of: Down to Earth Organic Garden Lime Calcium Carbonate, 5lb	​
1 of: Halatool 8 QT Perlite 3-6 mm Horticultural Organic Perlite Bulk for Plants Natural Potting Soil Mix Additive for Indoor & Outdoor Planting	​
1 of: Jobe's Organics Compost Starter 4-4-2, 09926, 4 pounds, 4 lb	​
1 of: Worm Castings Organic Fertilizer, Wiggle Worm Soil Builder, 15-Pounds, (Package May Vary)

Click to expand...

Look into True Living Organics. First book can be found here: TLO Book His site with updates info can be found here: Skunk
Here's also an article done by Buil-A-Soil: Why TLO? Dissecting the Rev Mix line by line
Anyone with any input on this, please be constructive; many of us are here to learn. Thanks.

TheTerpinator said:

Just getting into this myself. I've heard of super soils. Is there a difference between super soil and True Living Organic soil?; I mean other than varying ingredients. Please post your recipe. Thanks.

Click to expand...

This is the recipe Super Soil I use. Down to Earth has most if not all. It's a big layout up front but for an MMJ user but you have several years of soil.
25+ pounds worm castings
5 pounds blood meal
5 pounds feather meal
2.5 pounds bone meal
2.5 pounds fish bone meal
3 cups oyster shell
3 cups kelp meal (5 pounds if outside in the heat)
2 cups azomite
3/4 cup epsom salt
2 tablespoons mycorrhizae
This is enough nutes for 14 bags of base soil. Second time on the soil just requires dressing with a little more of the nutes, they didn't say how much. I haven't found the website I got it in the first place.

I did feed the outdoor plants 1 time right after the heavy spring rains. The soil had settled about 1 1/2 inch and I filled it back up. That added some nutes.

RIS said:

Items Ordered	​
1 of: Down to Earth Organic Vegetable Garden Fertilizer 4-4-4, 5lb	​
1 of: Down to Earth Kelp Meal 1-0.1-2, 5lbs	​
1 of: Down to Earth 7805 7805-IPO Alfalfa Meal, 2.5-0.5-2.5 OMRI 5lb	​
1 of: Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust, 2 kg	​
1 of: Legigo Premium Sphagnum Moss Potting Mix- Natural Succulent Carnivorous Plants Moss Dried, Plant Growing Medium for Orchid Succulent Sarracenia Orchid Gardening Plants Reptiles, 20 QT(Appx.2.2lb)	​
1 of: Down to Earth Organic Garden Lime Calcium Carbonate, 5lb	​
1 of: Halatool 8 QT Perlite 3-6 mm Horticultural Organic Perlite Bulk for Plants Natural Potting Soil Mix Additive for Indoor & Outdoor Planting	​
1 of: Jobe's Organics Compost Starter 4-4-2, 09926, 4 pounds, 4 lb	​
1 of: Worm Castings Organic Fertilizer, Wiggle Worm Soil Builder, 15-Pounds, (Package May Vary)

Click to expand...

Mollasses!

Southernontariogrower said:

Mollasses!

Click to expand...

I heard good things about molasses. Is there a specific stage of growth you use it? I understand it helps feed microbes and is organic but not sure on the amount per gallon and if you should ween off the molasses in flower.

Fermented plant extracts. They smell like a dirty diaper that someone left in a hot car for a week and a half, then strained through dirty socks with a hint of wook body odor. ;D

Bottom line is, stink in, stink out. I could never imagine doing this without them now! Also, they are PENNIES on the dollar to make yourself - yet I will still happily pay $70/ gallon.

oyster shell flouer

TankHankerous said:

I heard good things about molasses. Is there a specific stage of growth you use it? I understand it helps feed microbes and is organic but not sure on the amount per gallon and if you should ween off the molasses in flower.

Click to expand...

Most common to recommended 1-2 TBLS/gallon. Mineral amounts vary widely from brand to brand and even from season to season. What I mean is labeled amounts of minerals vary, read the label. I look at potassium only, the rest of the minerals vary up or down along with potassium. This will lower the pH of the water so, add it before adjusting pH. You can use all the way to the end. Very high levels of K+ cause nutrient lockout. What that means pr where that limit is varies by soil composition and ion holding capacity.

nygaff1 said:

Fermented plant extracts. They smell like a dirty diaper that someone left in a hot car for a week and a half, then strained through dirty socks with a hint of wook body odor. ;D

Bottom line is, stink in, stink out. I could never imagine doing this without them now! Also, they are PENNIES on the dollar to make yourself - yet I will still happily pay $70/ gallon.

Click to expand...

How do you use that stinky stuff? A little bit often, a bunch less often? What works?

I saw a Build A Soil video about some fermented plants extracts they had for sale, and $70 per gallon isn't far off from their prices.

TheTerpinator said:

Just getting into this myself. I've heard of super soils. Is there a difference between super soil and True Living Organic soil?; I mean other than varying ingredients. Please post your recipe. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Yes. Supersoils are designed for one run. Based off subcools mic and practices. True living soil needs worms for one, and you never remix, or till it. Any additives just go on top. Mulch is hugely beneficial. Theres alot of opinions, but i think a supersoil is a decemt recipe to start a living soil. Just add worms, maybe some cover crop, and mulch everything back into the bed.

youraveragehorticulturist said:

How do you use that stinky stuff? A little bit often, a bunch less often? What works?
I saw a Build A Soil video about some fermented plants extracts they had for sale, and $70 per gallon isn't far off from their prices.

Click to expand...

You can do a foliar spray or a drench. All depends on what stage the plants are in. I've been using comfrey for veg/stretch and pumpkin for stretch & flower. Anywhere from 1-4 oz per gallon of water as a top feed, about once a week.

Fair warning - these mixed with fish hydrolysate smell worse than a morgue... might want an air purifier for the room you mix your water in, especially if there is a spouse or roomates involved lol.

RIS said:

Items Ordered	​
1 of: Down to Earth Organic Vegetable Garden Fertilizer 4-4-4, 5lb	​
1 of: Down to Earth Kelp Meal 1-0.1-2, 5lbs	​
1 of: Down to Earth 7805 7805-IPO Alfalfa Meal, 2.5-0.5-2.5 OMRI 5lb	​
1 of: Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust, 2 kg	​
1 of: Legigo Premium Sphagnum Moss Potting Mix- Natural Succulent Carnivorous Plants Moss Dried, Plant Growing Medium for Orchid Succulent Sarracenia Orchid Gardening Plants Reptiles, 20 QT(Appx.2.2lb)	​
1 of: Down to Earth Organic Garden Lime Calcium Carbonate, 5lb	​
1 of: Halatool 8 QT Perlite 3-6 mm Horticultural Organic Perlite Bulk for Plants Natural Potting Soil Mix Additive for Indoor & Outdoor Planting	​
1 of: Jobe's Organics Compost Starter 4-4-2, 09926, 4 pounds, 4 lb	​
1 of: Worm Castings Organic Fertilizer, Wiggle Worm Soil Builder, 15-Pounds, (Package May Vary)

Click to expand...

Holy cow, that is too much, you dont need all that. First, Plant Tone from Espoma is fine for veg. You mix in 1/4 cup per 3 gallon pot at transplant, another 1/8 cup per pot a month later. For flower, Down to Earth beats Espoma, use their Rose/Flower mix at 1/4 cup per pot every 2-3 weeks. If you want to get crazy, stick a couple Jobes Veg and Tomato spikes in midway through flower. That is it.

Southernontariogrower said:

Mollasses!

Click to expand...

*unsulphered* blackstrap molasses

nygaff1 said:

You can do a foliar spray or a drench. All depends on what stage the plants are in. I've been using comfrey for veg/stretch and pumpkin for stretch & flower. Anywhere from 1-4 oz per gallon of water as a top feed, about once a week.

Fair warning - these mixed with fish hydrolysate smell worse than a morgue... might want an air purifier for the room you mix your water in, especially if there is a spouse or roomates involved lol.

Click to expand...

Thanks man!

TreesUpNorth said:

Yes. Supersoils are designed for one run. Based off subcools mic and practices. True living soil needs worms for one, and you never remix, or till it. Any additives just go on top. Mulch is hugely beneficial. Theres alot of opinions, but i think a supersoil is a decemt recipe to start a living soil. Just add worms, maybe some cover crop, and mulch everything back into the bed.

Click to expand...

That's right. SS is just about a worm short of being living soil. Normally I'd just use it indoors and worms can't live in things like perlite. Outside in bags isn't too good in Oklahoma. Last fall we started a living soil outdoor garden and used SS in each hole, about half what I would put in a bag. The holes are 4 feet dia and 18 inches deep. It was filled with soil and compost.

You can use SS indoors and it works really well but if you want worms you need to find something they can live in. Have you ever heard of a worm tube?

DancesWithWeeds said:

Have you ever heard of a worm tube?

Click to expand...

I have, now Worm Tube Information – Learn How To Make A Worm Tube
Worm Tower Composting In The Garden

TheTerpinator said:

I have, now Worm Tube Information – Learn How To Make A Worm Tube
Worm Tower Composting In The Garden

Click to expand...

Those things really work once they start. If you don't have enough table scraps think Starbucks. They put the old grounds back in the same plastic bag they came in and make them available to organic gardeners.

If you do this just remember that worms don't like DT or perlite.