My Outdoor Garden-2010

theloadeddragon

Well-Known Member
Wow.... didn't know my comment would cause such an argument.

I didn't say that deep horizontal roots are not a good thing. Indeed, deep roots are crucial for moisture deprivation stress and relieving high top soil temperatures, as well as comfortably anchoring the plant. I was simply replying to the fact that when you feed the plants with liquid fertilizers or by cultivating in amendments into the topsoil, its the upper lateral roots that draw in the most nutrients, as deep as 2 ft down, while the lower vertical roots and tap roots draw in a lot more water in ratio to the nutrients they are pulling up. In conditions where I have been unable to dig deep holes, I have dug wider instead. Like when solid granite deadpan was less than 2" below soil level. Its an effective alternative.

I think you and Fdd have different soil compositions right? One sandy loam and the other red clay? Not sure what Fdd has for local there, but it looks nice and rich and well ammended.

I dig my holes as deep as I can, and ammend all the way down. The roots will grow wherever there is water, air, and nutrition.

In general I have found, the larger the hole, the larger the roots/root system, the larger the stalks and amount of foliage, and the better the results. So just a very large whole in general is good. I haven't been growing for 20 yrs, but I have been around growing, and plants, and gardening my entire life, and have always been taught that the deeper you Can go, why not? As well as, the wider you Can go, why not?

When I have put the plants in the ground, I usually don't find the end of the root systems, they just keep going, quite a bit farther than the holes I dug, but the holes I dug have the densest root masses. For example, the raised beds for my larger plants are 3x3x2, I dug down into the level soil about 18-20" avg and about 4 1/2 ft by 4 1/2 ft wide, the top of the raised bed sits 18 inches above the ground, so my hole including the raised bed is about 3' deep... there is pics of a hole I dug in my outdoor thread. I hit a vein of granite that was made up of a good amount of larger pieces of granite with cracks and fissures between them, I decided to stop there even though it was only 15-17" deep, because getting the granite out would have really sucked balls, and the cracks and fissures provided good drainage. I expect the roots would go down into the cracks there following the water, but also out to the sides, because water would run off to the sides over the granite as well, and there is plenty of amended soil to inhabit. I widened the hole and amended laterally as an alternative, :).

I put my sensi star in that bed, and now she is trying to flower.... so Im not sure how much her roots will grow out, as Im not sure if she will reveg, I hope she does though.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
this is all i said. :neutral:

all smiley and winky about it even. just a passing comment.

scaring me dude. relax. bongsmilie




you all make this stuff up as you go along, don't you? :)

i till 28+ inches deep. at the end of the year i still can't dig deep enough to get my root balls free. i have to use a small axe to cut them so i can get the main stumps out. those roots go down further then they do across. i have pics on my other computer and in threads here as well. check my past outdoor threads. :wink:
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
them are your favorite word.THAT MAY WORK FOR YOU. have you ever thought what works for others will work for you, that is if you know what you are doing.. apparently your not doing something right when it comes down to taking others advice..
That ties in with long experience with the scientific method.

I was getting successful grows quite a while before most grow books were published. I've tried a lot of things, and have killed a lot of plants. Not many pot plants, fortunately. I figure nearly everything I do in my garden was learned from others. A lot of trial and error.

MG:

Go ahead and cut green leaves off your plants. I just don't do it to mine because I know what really happens. Experience.

This grow show is my seventh or eighth. Some at OG in the greenhouse section, and others at another site I prefer to remain unnamed.

My collection of pix dates back to OG.

MG: There are dates on some of my pix.

"EVERONE IS ALWAYS SAYING TO ME WHAT CAN I DO TO BE MORE LIKE YOU"

Methinks I might not be the one with an ego problem.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Thanks for stopping in!



Exactly right on root development.

A plant works very hard to penetrate below a foot, and won't do it unless water is short.

It has been a crazy year, so far.

Compared to most years, today's 90 degrees seems mild.

this is NOT true. roots will grow where ever they can. dig a hole 30 feet deep and add some fluffy soil and those roots will go down 30 feet. they are roots. they do NOT limit themselves. they are programmed to GROW. they don't stop growing, ever.

you are attempting to state something as fact that is NOT fact. they words "won't" and "unless" put boundaries on something that does not follow those boundaries. i'm am trying to help others get the most out of their grows. i am not here trying to prove anything.
 

mygirls

Medical Marijuana (MOD)
That ties in with long experience with the scientific method.

I was getting successful grows quite a while before most grow books were published. I've tried a lot of things, and have killed a lot of plants. Not many pot plants, fortunately. I figure nearly everything I do in my garden was learned from others. A lot of trial and error.

MG:

Go ahead and cut green leaves off your plants. I just don't do it to mine because I know what really happens. Experience.

This grow show is my seventh or eighth. Some at OG in the greenhouse section, and others at another site I prefer to remain unnamed.

My collection of pix dates back to OG.

MG: There are dates on some of my pix.

"EVERONE IS ALWAYS SAYING TO ME WHAT CAN I DO TO BE MORE LIKE YOU"

Methinks I might not be the one with an ego problem.
hey FDD think we have a jealous person cuz we have a cool signature...LOL

its all good. i know what works i put it out there pics and video. if growers choose not to use my experience, that's there choice. but i do know what im growing and talking about. where's your informational videos..
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
this is NOT true. roots will grow where ever they can. dig a hole 30 feet deep and add some fluffy soil and those roots will go down 30 feet. they are roots. they do NOT limit themselves. they are programmed to GROW. they don't stop growing, ever.

you are attempting to state something as fact that is NOT fact. they words "won't" and "unless" put boundaries on something that does not follow those boundaries. i'm am trying to help others get the most out of their grows. i am not here trying to prove anything.
That ties in with long experience with the scientific method.

I was getting successful grows quite a while before most grow books were published. I've tried a lot of things, and have killed a lot of plants. Not many pot plants, fortunately. I figure nearly everything I do in my garden was learned from others. A lot of trial and error.

MG:

Go ahead and cut green leaves off your plants. I just don't do it to mine because I know what really happens. Experience.

This grow show is my seventh or eighth. Some at OG in the greenhouse section, and others at another site I prefer to remain unnamed.

My collection of pix dates back to OG.

MG: There are dates on some of my pix.

"EVERONE IS ALWAYS SAYING TO ME WHAT CAN I DO TO BE MORE LIKE YOU"

Methinks I might not be the one with an ego problem.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
sucks, 'cause this is my first grow. :roll:

you're preaching to the choir, my friend. i germed my first seed in 1985.

bongsmilie

my ego is only as big as my plants. :cool:




[video=youtube;2SfcP83o9YM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SfcP83o9YM[/video]
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Wow.... didn't know my comment would cause such an argument.

I didn't say that deep horizontal roots are not a good thing. Indeed, deep roots are crucial for moisture deprivation stress and relieving high top soil temperatures, as well as comfortably anchoring the plant. I was simply replying to the fact that when you feed the plants with liquid fertilizers or by cultivating in amendments into the topsoil, its the upper lateral roots that draw in the most nutrients, as deep as 2 ft down, while the lower vertical roots and tap roots draw in a lot more water in ratio to the nutrients they are pulling up. In conditions where I have been unable to dig deep holes, I have dug wider instead. Like when solid granite deadpan was less than 2" below soil level. Its an effective alternative.

I think you and Fdd have different soil compositions right? One sandy loam and the other red clay? Not sure what Fdd has for local there, but it looks nice and rich and well ammended.

I dig my holes as deep as I can, and ammend all the way down. The roots will grow wherever there is water, air, and nutrition.

In general I have found, the larger the hole, the larger the roots/root system, the larger the stalks and amount of foliage, and the better the results. So just a very large whole in general is good. I haven't been growing for 20 yrs, but I have been around growing, and plants, and gardening my entire life, and have always been taught that the deeper you Can go, why not? As well as, the wider you Can go, why not?

When I have put the plants in the ground, I usually don't find the end of the root systems, they just keep going, quite a bit farther than the holes I dug, but the holes I dug have the densest root masses. For example, the raised beds for my larger plants are 3x3x2, I dug down into the level soil about 18-20" avg and about 4 1/2 ft by 4 1/2 ft wide, the top of the raised bed sits 18 inches above the ground, so my hole including the raised bed is about 3' deep... there is pics of a hole I dug in my outdoor thread. I hit a vein of granite that was made up of a good amount of larger pieces of granite with cracks and fissures between them, I decided to stop there even though it was only 15-17" deep, because getting the granite out would have really sucked balls, and the cracks and fissures provided good drainage. I expect the roots would go down into the cracks there following the water, but also out to the sides, because water would run off to the sides over the granite as well, and there is plenty of amended soil to inhabit. I widened the hole and amended laterally as an alternative, :).

I put my sensi star in that bed, and now she is trying to flower.... so Im not sure how much her roots will grow out, as Im not sure if she will reveg, I hope she does though.




it's kinda funny, you came in here and clarified everything and dude is still going on and on.

thank you for your explanation. i fully agree.

my natural soil is adobe clay. it's some dark, sticky stuff. but with a little manipulation becomes pleasingly manageable. we have a lot of farming in this area. mainly wine grapes.

bongsmilie
 

theloadeddragon

Well-Known Member
Thanks FDD, cool juicy grapes sound sooo good right now... I bet they are all over the place out there, the dry heat has been beating me down over the last week! Hopefully I can have grapes going next year.... and fruit trees.... I love cool sweet and juicy fruits in the hot summer afternoons. For me, managing the fruit trees and some of the other berries and vegetables are going to be a bit more challenging. Hope I don't mess it up bad. Any one know of a site with good fruit tree info?

I thought it was funny too... right after I posted that my daughter was watching Bill Nye the Science guy, and he was talking about the different kinds of soil and how they form and their different properties, :). I bet that clay helps hold water fairly well. I have noticed that my local soil isn't holding as much water as I thought it would. Makes me wish I had added more steer manure throughout the beds. I mixed my beds in layers, kind of throwing it together. They seem happy though.

VG- You have a valid point that a cannabis plant can survive just fine with wide roots rather than deep, and FDD isn't disagreeing with you, he is just clarifying what could have been a misconception from what was said, because plants with deeper root systems always have outperformed the ones with shallow wide ones. I think your just failing to see that what he is talking about has a bit more to do with Cannabis horticulture in general, rather than a specific situation ;).
I would really rather not see your journal clouted with pointless bickering, I have done that to a couple of my own, and regretted it. I would Really Like to see more about Your garden though..... but I have to admit, mixing pictures of the different years has me pretty confused with whats going on in your garden. And what kind of veggies you got going? Any fruit or berries?
 

northeastern lights

Well-Known Member
WOooooooooooooooooo!!! I love a good keyboard fight. I like my holes deep when growing guerilla style. I dump in 25 gallons of mix per hole. Then again the biggest plants I've ever seen grown are grown in raised beds from a friend here "HodgeGrown". Both seem to yield fabulous results.
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
What's up VG? Let's have an update.

Peace
doublejj
P.S. You've all seen my holes. "Damn that didn't sound right"!
 

WheresWaldosBUD

Well-Known Member
veg once again i need your help i have bud rot so wat i did was remove the bud and most of my plants wont stop budding.i also have a infestation of spider mites my crystal hasnt grown at all my soil sucks it has alot i mean alot of sand in it, its next to a river and my ph is at 7 maybe alittle higher. what do i do??? also i wasnt tending to them properly as far as watering them so most of them look like crap. help plz
 

ARREBATAO

Member
hey bro i am new to this site is there a way i can send you a message i want to get some info from you cause you seem to know what you are doing this is my first grow and i am doing outdoors THANKS
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Pix.

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A young Praying Mantis.

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Cabbage rolls in the near future.

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The East greenhouse is very slow this year, compared to last.

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The Yellow Zucchini are producing heavily!

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Okra loves heat, of which we've had very little.

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Watermelons are very slow as well.

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Bird of Paradise.

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The denizens of the cage. The last pic in this group is of a meristem producing three leaves per node. I've heard people call these "triploid". Is this correct?

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This Red Flame grape vine has never been productive, mostly due to neglect, because it was unproductive. Last year I decided to trellis it to provide a bit of screening of the cages nine foot plants. This year it has set dozens of bunches of grapes.

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I make hundreds of these small hooks to aid in training anything that grows vertically, like tomatoes, cucumbers, and Cannabis.

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The Western greenhouse's plants. Things are beginning to grow rapidly, but are still months behind past years.

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Cabbage rolls very soon!

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The BB X stalk is over two inches thick.

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These 3.5' x 3.5' pieces work well in my 8' x 12' greenhouses. About four feet above the ground, they provide support and spacing for the plants, as they mature.
 

dirrtyd

Well-Known Member
Looking Good VEggie I'm starting to see the carrots coming out of the ground. The watermelon vine sare taking off over here.Dirrty
 
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