MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

fatman, seeing as I have adopted ya as my personal tutor in all thing aero, lol (hope ya dont mind, just I trust ya opinion more than anyone else!)

Do I need R/O filltering? My tap water is 60ppm and 7.2ph, my kettle is 4 years old and has NO limescale or buildup whatsoever and the element is still shiny!

Am I ok without? im thinking its all good, if I allow the chlorine to evaparate and use a carbon filter for heavy metal?

Essex said:

yep less that 2 times a day "on" time, to charge a header tank.

I wouldnt bother trying to "just rig it up to my washer wand" as ya couldnt control it properly.

A pressure washer nozzle is designed to rip stuff up, fatman covered the power well enough if ya can understand it! lol

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you might not be able to control it properly, but you could at least put your hand over it. you might find you would just have to have an overly large chamber to allow the particles to slow before contact with roots.

besides...wouldn't you have to use steel supply lines? i don't even think schedule 80 cpvc is rated for much more than 800 psi.

but look, like you said, the testing would only save you money in the long run...

clydefrog said:

you might not be able to control it properly, but you could at least put your hand over it. you might find you would just have to have an overly large chamber to allow the particles to slow before contact with roots.

besides...wouldn't you have to use steel supply lines? i don't even think schedule 80 cpvc is rated for much more than 800 psi.

but look, like you said, the testing would only save you money in the long run...

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The power behind my jetwash nozzle 360 liter per hour 6L/Min 100ml/sec in a 1cm2 spot is 10 times more than 10ml per sec in a 1m2 spray thats 1000 times bigger so ten-thousand times less power, the plant will be 70cm away from spray nozzle, the spray is spraying up against gravity at 50 microns, the terminal velocity I would have thought to be very slow.

Idea how small the particals are,


Steel suppy lines?? cost a bomb and pain, bendable plastic with 1000psi pressure $2.00 a foot with push fit connectors that are about $10 each.
http://cloudtops.com/fog_systems/high_pressure_push_lock_fittings_tubing.php

Understanding and researching your subject is more important than tests, tests should just be little tweaks like tuning spray time to ya plant

Where is Tree farmer? Haven't heard from him in a while. It is his thread afterall and I was wondering how he is doing with his latest grow.

Essex said:

Understanding and researching your subject is more important than tests, tests should just be little tweaks like tuning spray time to ya plant

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thats true...have you researched the inside of your NoS tank? if its a typical steel cylinder like the ones we have in the states...its gonna rust pretty quickly.

Its a medical grade one, so am unshore but will coat with teflon if it isnt already.

fatman7574 said:

I do not know if mist is seen as over saturation by a RH device. Are you assuming 19 micron fog in air is humidity and 21 micro mist in air is seen as over 100% humidity irregardless of the volume of mist in the air. Air can carry moisture at levels above 100% humidity without it raining (oversaturation). Like I said though I use many electronic measuring devices but I have liitle understanding of most electronic circuitry. 110 volt AC and up I am fine with. Electronic circuitry as in circuit boards etc. though is not my field at all.

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I've done a little reseach and found to maintain a chamber at 68 deg. F at 100% humidity you would have to constantly supply 105 deg. F nutrient temp. As soon as you go below 105 deg. F dew(rain) would result then you would be in the 21 micron and above range.

AeroTrek said:

I've done a little reseach and found to maintain a chamber at 68 deg. F at 100% humidity you would have to constantly supply 105 deg. F nutrient temp. As soon as you go below 105 deg. F dew(rain) would result then you would be in the 21 micron and above range.

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so a humidistat wont work, cycle timer it is then!

Ok, but why would I want to run a chamber at 68 degrees F. My grow room is at 94 to 98 degrees F so my chamber is at 94 to 98 degrees F. To lower the temp would just slow growth. There is no reason to lower my chamber temps below my room temps as that is lowering my efficiency. I would not think my nutrient temp would need to be higher than my chamber temp if it is at 94 to 96 degrees.

What is the 68 degrees all about? There is no need for cold chamber or root temps. Why would you suggest 68 degrees? Are you saying that all water droplets above 20 microns are considered rain if the droplet temps is below 105 degrees with an ambient air temp at 68 degrees. If so how about at a more reasonable chamber air temp of 95 degrees. I want to stay in the 30 to 50 micron range. Preferably 50 micron. Are you saying 50 micron droplets are always considered rain regardless of the air temp? If it came down to heating the nutrientwater I have np o problem with that, but I will not run cold chambers nor run small micron droplets. Too little efficiency.

Essex said:

fatman, seeing as I have adopted ya as my personal tutor in all thing aero, lol (hope ya dont mind, just I trust ya opinion more than anyone else!)

Do I need R/O filltering? My tap water is 60ppm and 7.2ph, my kettle is 4 years old and has NO limescale or buildup whatsoever and the element is still shiny!

Am I ok without? im thinking its all good, if I allow the chlorine to evaparate and use a carbon filter for heavy metal?

Click to expand...

Any idea m8? plz, last question I promise!

also what about this idea?
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/328753-resonant-frequency-bud-production.html

Wow, 60 ppm. I know a few people in Arizona who's water coming out of their RO filters at over 60 ppm. Their inputs are over 1250 ppm. The ocean has a true TDS of about 3500 ppm as an average.

I would surely not much worry about a TDS/ppm of 60. The ideal range for drinking water is considered a EC meter measuring of TDS 50 ppm or below. You would likely find that what little there is in your water is likely is a safe mixture of a little soluble calcium, mosting bicarbonate, a little carbonate, some magnesiun, sulfur and manganese. A water treatment plant using your water would just run it through a sand filter and inject some chlorine. The only potential problem would be high naturally occuring Florine, but that is nearly always only an issue in a few areas that are very arid. Southern California, parts of Indi, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Africa.

AeroTrek said:

I've done a little reseach and found to maintain a chamber at 68 deg. F at 100% humidity you would have to constantly supply 105 deg. F nutrient temp. As soon as you go below 105 deg. F dew(rain) would result then you would be in the 21 micron and above range.

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Fatman,
　
I revised the numbers to better reflect your conditions. I don't no your chamber size so I used 4' L x 4' W x 2' H for 32 cu.ft to be humidified ft/hr at 100% RH. The room temp at 95°F and chamber temp to be 95°F. With the system on time at 100% you would require a flow of 0.007gph. Due to evaporative cooling the air in the chamber should be approximately 189°F in order to maintain the desired chamber temperature of 95°F (this can only be done by supplying the nutes at that temp.). I think regardless of the micron drop size you would cook your roots at that temperature. The reason I choose 68°F was simply to simulate outdoor comfort conditions of 72°F and soil temps being a little cooler ~ 68°F. I hope this helps with the reason why I believe humidifying is not the way to go.

AeroTrek said:

Fatman,
　
I revised the numbers to better reflect your conditions. I don't no your chamber size so I used 4' L x 4' W x 2' H for 32 cu.ft to be humidified ft/hr at 100% RH. The room temp at 95°F and chamber temp to be 95°F. With the system on time at 100% you would require a flow of 0.007gph. Due to evaporative cooling the air in the chamber should be approximately 189°F in order to maintain the desired chamber temperature of 95°F (this can only be done by supplying the nutes at that temp.). I think regardless of the micron drop size you would cook your roots at that temperature. The reason I choose 68°F was simply to simulate outdoor comfort conditions of 72°F and soil temps being a little cooler ~ 68°F. I hope this helps with the reason why I believe humidifying is not the way to go.

Where are you getting this data. Do you have a equation used to derive these temps etc.

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Where are you getting this data. Do you have an equation used to derive these temps etc. I have no idea what theorey this could possibly be derived from. Are you basing this upon some formulas related to evaporative cooling of a room by a swamp cooler. The numbers are insane. A 95 degree chamber in a 95 degree room with only a few ml per minute of 95 degree water sprayed into the chambers is not going to cool. This is basically a closed sytem with only air and water being sprayed in, and very little of each. If the water, air, chamber and roots are all the same temp what is going to drive a reaction such as the heat transfer or heat removal. If there is a loss from the system it is going to be a loss of 95 degree moist air into a less moist environment but still at 95 degrees. The temp of the air and water that enter and exit the system will be the same. Heat goes from hot to cold. There is no temp difference so no heat is transferred.

Lets assume there are small cracks around plant net pots and around holes where nozzles are inserted from out side the chambers as well as a small drain pipe. We will spray in a small amount of 95 degree water 50 micron droplets with 95 degree air. This will be sprayed into a 95 degree chamber containing 95 degree roots and 95 degree moist air and 95 degree 50 micron water droplets. The roots will take in some of the water droplets. This will not affect the temps. Some moist air will leak out during each spraying and less so when no spraying is going on. This will not cause a temp change as the water and air will enter and exit the chambers at the same temp. It will increase moisture/humidity outside the chambers but that is not the issue. Please explain just what your data is saying in relation to these parameters. Why do you think I would need to add hotter water to maintain a temp if no evaporative cooling is going on. There is no forced and very little natural ventilation or air movement going on as the chamber is as close as possible to being fully enclosed.

For ease figure a 1 cubic meter chamber. The maximum air volume sprayed will be about 0.043 cubic meters per minute. Spraying an average of 1 second per minute means (0.046/60) = 0.000076667 cubic yards per minute. That means it will take (1/0.00007667)= 13043 minutes for the sprayed airs to in and of itself cause a complete air exchange in the chamber. How much heat exchange, evaporative orother wise will take place under those conditions.

fatman7574 said:

Wow, 60 ppm. I know a few people in Arizona who's water coming out of their RO filters at over 60 ppm. Their inputs are over 1250 ppm. The ocean has a true TDS of about 3500 ppm as an average.

I would surely not much worry about a TDS/ppm of 60. The ideal range for drinking water is considered a EC meter measuring of TDS 50 ppm or below. You would likely find that what little there is in your water is likely is a safe mixture of a little soluble calcium, mosting bicarbonate, a little carbonate, some magnesiun, sulfur and manganese. A water treatment plant using your water would just run it through a sand filter and inject some chlorine. The only potential problem would be high naturally occuring Florine, but that is nearly always only an issue in a few areas that are very arid. Southern California, parts of Indi, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Africa.

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Cool, doupt ill have Florine then im in rainy old England. This area the water is brilliant, kettles last 4 eva.

Thanks for all your help man! I would have struggled without ya brain, hope ya pleased with what I finaly build and I will give ya credit m8!

I dont quite see what all this temperature chat is all about?

As I understand it ya just keep root zone at a ideal temp for plant growth?

I am just going to use a cycle timer as I know it will work, RH control can be attempted at a later date when I have more experience/data.

been gone for a while... ive got some catching up to do.

been messing with a lot of different strains... one of them either has nute burn (but i doubt it because i lowered ppm's and problem still seems to be occuring) but more likely either cal-mag deficiency, or phos def. Im thinking its phos. The new leaves have no problems. But the tips, and all around the edges of the leaves that are about a week or so old, they are yellowing, and its getting worse. So im using AN sensi bloom 2 part right now. And im debating how to add the phos, because AN and all their boosters give PLENTY of Potasium, but the phos seems to be the runt of the pack, and I have no additives that only add phos.

What do you guys think I could add to my sensi bloom mix to bring up my phos? THe part B of the mix is 1.6 6.1 5.7 and part a is like 4.3 0.0 3.2 or something. So even if i go crazy with part B, do you think it will overdo the K as well, and will that hurt the plant?

Im in hydro, medium psi sprayers and a bit of dwc. Thanks.

fatman7574 said:

Where are you getting this data. Do you have an equation used to derive these temps etc. I have no idea what theorey this could possibly be derived from. Are you basing this upon some formulas related to evaporative cooling of a room by a swamp cooler. The numbers are insane. A 95 degree chamber in a 95 degree room with only a few ml per minute of 95 degree water sprayed into the chambers is not going to cool. This is basically a closed sytem with only air and water being sprayed in, and very little of each. If the water, air, chamber and roots are all the same temp what is going to drive a reaction such as the heat transfer or heat removal. If there is a loss from the system it is going to be a loss of 95 degree moist air into a less moist environment but still at 95 degrees. The temp of the air and water that enter and exit the system will be the same. Heat goes from hot to cold. There is no temp difference so no heat is transferred.

Lets assume there are small cracks around plant net pots and around holes where nozzles are inserted from out side the chambers as well as a small drain pipe. We will spray in a small amount of 95 degree water 50 micron droplets with 95 degree air. This will be sprayed into a 95 degree chamber containing 95 degree roots and 95 degree moist air and 95 degree 50 micron water droplets. The roots will take in some of the water droplets. This will not affect the temps. Some moist air will leak out during each spraying and less so when no spraying is going on. This will not cause a temp change as the water and air will enter and exit the chambers at the same temp. It will increase moisture/humidity outside the chambers but that is not the issue. Please explain just what your data is saying in relation to these parameters. Why do you think I would need to add hotter water to maintain a temp if no evaporative cooling is going on. There is no forced and very little natural ventilation or air movement going on as the chamber is as close as possible to being fully enclosed.

For ease figure a 1 cubic meter chamber. The maximum air volume sprayed will be about 0.043 cubic meters per minute. Spraying an average of 1 second per minute means (0.046/60) = 0.000076667 cubic yards per minute. That means it will take (1/0.00007667)= 13043 minutes for the sprayed airs to in and of itself cause a complete air exchange in the chamber. How much heat exchange, evaporative orother wise will take place under those conditions.

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I thought as you at first....that this would be a good idea and thats why I looked into it a little further. I've been using the logic and calculator supplied buy a nozzle manufacturing company location in the U.S. I attached the link below...

http://www.ispray.com/application-humidification

...just enter the relevent data and keep proceeding to the next page. To get a summary of your numbers choose the siphon method nozzle, pick the first nozzle listed, used the default conditions supplied by the computer with the defaulted "25% nozzle safety factor". Remember these calculations were based on a 100% system "on" time.

AeroTrek said:

I thought as you at first....that this would be a good idea and thats why I looked into it a little further. I've been using the logic and calculator supplied buy a nozzle manufacturing company location in the U.S. I attached the link below...

http://www.ispray.com/application-humidification

...just enter the relevent data and keep proceeding to the next page. To get a summary of your numbers choose the siphon method nozzle, pick the first nozzle listed, used the default conditions supplied by the computer with the defaulted "25% nozzle safety factor". Remember these calculations were based on a 100% system "on" time.

Click to expand...

Definite flaw in the calculator design. It will not allow a calculation that is based upon any situation where there is not at least 1 complete air exchange per hour. Even so: Using 1 cubic meter chamber with a cosnstant 9% defree F temp and water at 95 degrees F with the spray being admnistered approx 1% of the time ie 0.6 seconds per minute it shows a nozzle rated at 51.4 gph spraying a total of 0.41 gph would maintian a relative humidity between 90% and 95% with no increase needed for a water temp. So say 20% of that value beacuse the air exchange would likey be less that 1/5 of an air exchange per hour. Therefore 0.082 gph or about 1.96 gallons per day. Based on home mixed fertilizers and RO warter costing 20 cents per gallon to produce, the nutrient cost would be 40.032 per day. Yes the fertilizer cost is only 3.2 cents per day. $5 worth of salts making a 100x fertilizer diluted to 300 to 1 so as to obtain a low enough TDS for use with HP or air atomized aero. The calculator stated 0.95 cf of air per at 40 psi. Gravity feed from 18" would drop those air needs down to about 0.43 cu feet and 15 psi. So a relative humidity controller would work quite well it seems but one would likely have to assure adquate air exchange of at least 1/10 of an air exchange per hour for the chamber. A few vent holes should easily accomplish that as there will be a positive pressure an time the nozzles spray and that air in and of itself will assure at least a 5% exchange. Then their is the floor drain. All seems do able.

so it will work then..........

sounds better than a cycle timer, and will work at +/-3% at the 90-95% zone

so all this temp stuff? what? lol

My header tank will be temp controled anyway, but I have to turn temp up or down and how will this affect growth?

I was also planing to have small air vents with water traps on each side of root chamber, just to have some fresh air in root zone.

It is most efficient to just use water the same temp as your plants. Spraying the nutrients will assure the solution contains a saturation level of dissolved oxygen so low temp high DO reservoirwater is not needed. Keep the whole system the same temp if possible. The worse that could happen is you would need to run a low level of chlorine in you water to prevent bacteria, mold or mildew. None of us are presently running additional vents. Just the typical air leaks. I do maintain free (residual) chlorine levels of 0.5 ppm and use spray to waste. If the temps are all the samethere is no evaporative cooling so the results for air and b nutrient reqi uirements are the same regardless of whether the temps are all 75 , 85, or 95 or anywhere in between. It is when you have differing temps that water temps matter. A temperature balanced system means there is no need for evaporative cooling or heating required.