my vac purge is destroying my oil

Sirdabsalot462

Sirdabsalot462

Well-Known Member
^ Apologies in advance if you are experienced enough to know this..

But...

Have you checked/changed the oil in your pump?
If not, I recommend changing the pump's oil every other batch.

However, if this has been neglected for an extended frame of time, your motor may be shot.
 
BluJayz

BluJayz

Well-Known Member
qwizoking said:
adding heat isn’t necessary when thin film vacuum purging raw oleoresins redissolved in ethanol. The alcohol will boil away under 28.5″Hg at ambient temperatures, as will the water that is left behind, even without adding any heat.
Click to expand...
Was just talking about this; yay for low heat!
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Yay for no heat!
Cough cough ehxinebzksb...............idk, spazzed out

But this is about bho.....why is bho so damn popular? Serious question

But my name is qwizo so what do you expect from me..iso just can't be beat in anyway imo....without multiple washes etc, I know I've shared my feelings about this many times..I should just keep it to my self..I personally would like to see the day where bho no longer exists
 
Passthat87

Passthat87

Active Member
I havent looked into ISo much but in my search for ethyl for winterizing i just found a source so yay for that I dont know much about the purging process for iso but am straying away from the whole BHO idea after having this pump problem. Was gonna ask a question but answered it myself while typing it found this article about the whole oil backflow thing http://www.hyvac.com/tech_support/Oil Suckback Problem.htm
 
Guzias1

Guzias1

Well-Known Member
Sirdabsalot462 said:
What FD,Qk said.

The oil's oleoresin is still too viscous for butane to escape the matrix at 100°.

Kick up your temp to 115°-120 ish. ..I know it's kind of hard to achieve temps in increments of five, unless you have a very accurate heat source, so go for 120.
Below is a chart I've had for a very long, time to gain a stronger grasp on how the solvent escapes an oleoresin matrix..

I stole this from a member of Toke City.can't remember his S Name at the moment.




Under a -29h vacuum @ room temp
*note the oil is too viscous (thick) for the solvent to escape*

Ignore the 90° temp reference, as stated the chart is fairly old, but still captures the concept

* Temp should be 115-120°




And, the final product after vac purge for about 30 minutes.

Click to expand...

ughm. i would reallyyy like to understand this better. wtf is happening?


please pleasee palesee esplain a bit more . i cant seem to grasp whats going on. thankx!
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
I don't know how accurate the numbers are.....but basically the trapped gasses are exerting pressure trying to flee..the heavy atmosphere is holding it back...release the tension by lowering pressure and the gas can now rise...heating it so that its fluid allows the gas to move through the oil and escape with the reduced pressure easier........I hope that helped

If not .......well that's all I got

Oh and the terps with a higher boiling point were largely left behind, because they exert less pressure..would take more vacuum/reduced pressure to remove.......k that's all I got for ya
 
Guzias1

Guzias1

Well-Known Member
hmm, ok . i think i see now.. but wtf 25hg.

is this under super thin film? i cant even imagine 25hg and full purged product at 115-120.. especially in 30 minutes...
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Well I suppose it depends when you start your "purge".. once all the fluid is gone and its in a thin film, it looks fairly stable..then you purge..the initial evap should leave you with the multicolored creamy, you know under purged look when collected(it should not be collected)....when you have that product and heat under vac I expect it to take under an hour, without heat and vac iso "purges" in about 4(mentioned for its higher boiling point). ..I like a film to be extremely thin as well..paper thin, gives best product I promise....though not always realistic..anyways..the purge should be under an hour in my opinion..30min might be pushing it..but fd's words should not be taken lightly
 
Guzias1

Guzias1

Well-Known Member
thin film is realllyyyy hard to achieve : / ..
i rarely hit paper thin , but paper thin alwaysss gives me something brittle, and easy to touch..

paper thin never fails.

but i got thick shit i need to work with :/
 
Sirdabsalot462

Sirdabsalot462

Well-Known Member
Dayyummm..., QK!!


knoooows his shhit...lol
Exactly what Qk said...hehe.

This chart is old, like 2009 old ..

But, the same principle applies, at sea level... A vac of-25hg in very thin film is efficient enough to purge away the butane molecules.

As QK pointed out...think more on the final purge, near the end of the process..

All the heavier poly-terpenes remain in the oleoresin, while altering the atmospheric pressure and letting the matrix” loosen” up a bit for the gas desperately trying to flee the oleoresin.

The -25 hg reference is dated, as many oil makers back then used brake-bleeding pumps, Pump n Seal...
The pioneers of our beloved Bho, had done so many hands on runs...

I mean, these guys, would do runs every single day, and document everything, and were kind enough to post the experience.

This was long before the BHO movement per se was even initiated.
But, yeas... :)

@Guzias.. You need bigger glass collection dish, you know this man...thin for the win!

Or...Gawd, I know with the amount you run...this would suck ass but maybe split your runs up...

Half in one dish and the other half in separate dish.
Perhaps more work, but perhaps much quicker as your oil is sooooo skinny now?

Just a thought..

I've personally have never really ran a vac for longer than about an hour..
Unless of course,, we are going for comb or some fine wax.
 
BluJayz

BluJayz

Well-Known Member
qwizoking said:
Yay for no heat!
Cough cough ehxinebzksb...............idk, spazzed out

But this is about bho.....why is bho so damn popular? Serious question

But my name is qwizo so what do you expect from me..iso just can't be beat in anyway imo....without multiple washes etc, I know I've shared my feelings about this many times..I should just keep it to my self..I personally would like to see the day where bho no longer exists
Click to expand...

Agreed ISO>BHO for quality, however its the duration of time ISO takes that makes it less popular I would assume.

Boiling off a gallon of ISO takes days without heat as BHO can process a gallon of tane in an afternoon.

There is so much dry ice hash in my area; I've been motivated to try its methods.

On that same note what's the most amount of eth you put in a vacuum?
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Isn't it marvelous that we all have different tastes, or us'n man childs would have killed each other off by now over the same woman?
 
midnitetoak

midnitetoak

Active Member
Actually enjoyed some of the delicious bubble hash I made months ago... It tastes better than any oil I've had though maybe not as potent and it's dabbable but leaves a nasty black residue on the nail. After trying many different kinds of concentrates I can honestly say I like all of them the best. It's really more about how much time and/or effort you want to put in
 
Decibel

Decibel

Member
I'm having a problem with my setup as well. It seems to be really nice shatter but absolutely no taste! My pump also creates a small cloud in my chamber right as I turn it on then it gets sucked out and the muffin starts. I'm still getting muffins on this 15g batch I'm trying. Should I just give up and try again? Is this shatter ruined?

3cfm 1/3hp 2stage pump. Using a big pickle jar as a chamber.

120 degree water in a big Pyrex on a pancake skillet set to 150. Keep the water at about 120 and the jar sits in there.
 
Decibel

Decibel

Member
How much does quality butane matter because I tried the same shit different outcome. Last try got awesome super smeller crumble wax.
 
4

408isthebay

Active Member
i read somewhere that theres a terpene that cooks off at 125f. Does anyone know how to calculate the boiling point of the terpene under a full vac? i vacced a 6g batch of grape ape errl at 75f and it tasted good but not as good as my heat purge which makes me think vaccing to 29.5 hg is actually causing alot of terpenes to boil off
 
4

408isthebay

Active Member
Sirdabsalot462 said:
^ Apologies in advance if you are experienced enough to know this..

But...

Have you checked/changed the oil in your pump?
If not, I recommend changing the pump's oil every other batch.

However, if this has been neglected for an extended frame of time, your motor may be shot.
Click to expand...
i've actually seen this too, thought i was trippin. How is it possible theres smoke in the chamber when the vac pump is supposed to suck all air out?
 
4

408isthebay

Active Member
Sirdabsalot462 said:
Dayyummm..., QK!!


knoooows his shhit...lol
Exactly what Qk said...hehe.

This chart is old, like 2009 old ..

But, the same principle applies, at sea level... A vac of-25hg in very thin film is efficient enough to purge away the butane molecules.

As QK pointed out...think more on the final purge, near the end of the process..

All the heavier poly-terpenes remain in the oleoresin, while altering the atmospheric pressure and letting the matrix” loosen” up a bit for the gas desperately trying to flee the oleoresin.

The -25 hg reference is dated, as many oil makers back then used brake-bleeding pumps, Pump n Seal...
The pioneers of our beloved Bho, had done so many hands on runs...

I mean, these guys, would do runs every single day, and document everything, and were kind enough to post the experience.

This was long before the BHO movement per se was even initiated.
But, yeas... :)

@Guzias.. You need bigger glass collection dish, you know this man...thin for the win!

Or...Gawd, I know with the amount you run...this would suck ass but maybe split your runs up...

Half in one dish and the other half in separate dish.
Perhaps more work, but perhaps much quicker as your oil is sooooo skinny now?

Just a thought..

I've personally have never really ran a vac for longer than about an hour..
Unless of course,, we are going for comb or some fine wax.
Click to expand...
okay so what temp and pressure are you supposed to do it at? As i just vacced 6g of oil under full vacuum at 90f and it still didn't taste as good as when i just heat purged it
 
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