NASA predicts irreversible collapse of civilization

Harrekin said:

If its cyclical, how is it irreversible?

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Shhhhhh. We are hunting wabbits.

Harrekin said:

If its cyclical, how is it irreversible?

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what? Cyclical, the previous civilization collapsed, people managed to create another, that one collapsed, and so on. Ours is next.

canndo said:

what? Cyclical, the previous civilization collapsed, people managed to create another, that one collapsed, and so on. Ours is next.

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Its hardly irreversible, as stated in the title, that would be paradoxical.

It could also be argued that we will merely evolve into a more civilised society, for example, the poor of this generation are hardly comparable to the poor of previous generations.

canndo said:

That isn't what it says.

It says too many people have more shit than the rest.

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yeah, that also

The world has always distributed resources unevenly. Always will. Civilizations have risen and fallen. Always have, always will. A bunch of geeks making "predictions" of the obvious and pretending they "got it all figured out" doesn't impress me in the slightest.

Red1966 said:

The world has always distributed resources unevenly. Always will. Civilizations have risen and fallen. Always have, always will. A bunch of geeks making "predictions" of the obvious and pretending they "got it all figured out" doesn't impress me in the slightest.

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Well shit, I'll take your uneducated opinion over a group of mathematicians with advanced degrees working at NASA any day.

Harrekin said:

Its hardly irreversible, as stated in the title, that would be paradoxical.

It could also be argued that we will merely evolve into a more civilised society, for example, the poor of this generation are hardly comparable to the poor of previous generations.

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Firstly, yes, it is hard to claim on the one hand that it is irreversable and on the other, deep in the article that we could change the outcome. So it depends on the concept of irreversible. Consider this however. I tell you that I could reverse your cancer but you would first have to become a cow. Is your cancer irreversible?

The story says the the report contends that what is needed is a method and practice of redistribution of wealth (resources) from the ones who have the most to the rest of civilization. Is it reversible? of course, is it possible? not very likely.

Skimmed through the article. Did they say when? I'm still prepped from the Mayan thing. Bring it on.

Harrekin said:

Its hardly irreversible, as stated in the title, that would be paradoxical.

It could also be argued that we will merely evolve into a more civilised society, for example, the poor of this generation are hardly comparable to the poor of previous generations.

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The other two things. One could I suppose argue an evolution of civilizations, but evolution does not depend upon death. What is being described here is the death of a civilization, no one can say for sure the the one next arising will be.. more civilized. Maybe Rob's model would prevail, who knows? but I am quite sure I could make a case for the poor of this generation of civilization is about the same as the poor of any civilization throughout human history.

Red1966 said:

The world has always distributed resources unevenly. Always will. Civilizations have risen and fallen. Always have, always will. A bunch of geeks making "predictions" of the obvious and pretending they "got it all figured out" doesn't impress me in the slightest.

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It is not simply an uneven distribution of resources but a convergence of that coupled with a hard limit on available resources coupled with a severely unbalanced accumulation by a very few. Given that resources in general were still in abundance, there would likely be no problem. The difference this time is that past civilizations didn't tap ALL of the globe's resources, simply those most local to its heart.

How many tax "dollars" did this study cost again?

we better spend a lot more to figure out why some people have more shit than others while preaching collapse and resource distribution; tragic.

420God said:

Skimmed through the article. Did they say when? I'm still prepped from the Mayan thing. Bring it on.

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Fifteen to twenty years, sooner if nothing at all is done, later for the elite, earlier for the others. I saw a relative scale of energy support. The estimate was that it takes an energy recovery rate of at least 15 to 1 to support the Arts. In other words, we have the luxury to afford the arts when it takes one unit of energy to recover 15 units. We lose education at something around 12 to one, we begin to lose food at 8 to one (or something to that effect). At a certain point we are going to have to take other's energy before we are unable to mount the energy involved in taking it.

twostrokenut said:

How many tax "dollars" did this study cost again?

we better spend a lot more to figure out why some people have more shit than others while preaching collapse and resource distribution; tragic.

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And then there is this. A study called preaching if it does not match one's philosophy. Why do you figure that some people have thousands of times more shit than others?

GOD HERE said:

Well shit, I'll take your uneducated opinion over a group of mathematicians with advanced degrees working at NASA any day.

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My opinion is the same as theirs. Trying to stir up controversy where there is none? I just don't pretend I made some monumental discovery, predicting the obvious. Was this group led by Capt. Obvious?

canndo said:

That is the point, there is nothing new, we have seen this sort of collapse for the last 5 thousand years. I just don't like living on the cusp of the end. I have always wondered, when I was seeing the remains of ancient, advanced civilizations, just what it must have been like to be living in the last days of one of those civilizations. Did the people know where they were in time? Is even knowing about this sort of impending disaster any consolation? I imagined folks living in the shadow of the collesium, wondering what the hell it was for or thinking that the time of their great grandfather must have been a glorious one.

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Interesting and well said!

Red1966 said:

My opinion is the same as theirs. Trying to stir up controversy where there is none? I just don't pretend I made some monumental discovery, predicting the obvious. Was this group led by Capt. Obvious?

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You didn't read the story did you.

canndo said:

And then there is this. A study called preaching if it does not match one's philosophy. Why do you figure that some people have thousands of times more shit than others?

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You mean as of late? The Fractional Reserve System of course....same thing that allowed this study to be done on "full faith and credit".

Arguably that fits the definition of "elite".

That's right Faith.

Government organizations sounding like Jehovah's Witnesses is a weird sign of the times.

canndo said:

You didn't read the story did you.

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Why are you trying to start an argument? They "discovered" nothing new. Civilizations have risen and fallen throughout history over the scarcity of resources. "Tomorrow will be much like yesterday" is hardly worth shouting from the headlines

NASA has changed it's focus from the exploration of space to promoting pseudoscience at the direction of politicians.

SirGreenThumb said:

So in other words the government gets to big, people become too greedy and hungry for power and before you know it, BOOM Zombie apocalypse. Kinda sorta.

I also cannot imagine how it would have been like to go through a collapse way before the information age without knowing wtf is happening, but it would seem like they would know what was happening, I would say that the people of the past were not stupid, we evolved from them, so I would think they would know it was coming though word of mouth, carrier pigeon a mother flippen fox... Yea... What are we talking about again?

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Rome is such a great example. The west, in ignorance or arrogance, says that Rome ended in 476 or something like that. But in reality 477 was not much different than 475. Never mind the fact that in the east people went on calling them selves roman, and serving under a roman emperor for nearly one thousand years, they went on in the west also.

All that really happened in 476 was the last person in the west to be crowned emperor and have at least nominal control over the western half was deposed. There were local roman governors who went on for decades in Iberia, Gaul, northern Africa while the goths invaded Italy, but were then kicked out by the other remaining Romans under Justinian in the 6th century.

When Rome pulled out of the British isles, they did so gradually. They were there for 3 or 400 years. The people felt roman, and the Romans sent there felt British. It took some centuries, and an invasion for civilization to really crumble there.

But with the light speed communication we have now, we will have panic and mayhem. Back then the normal person said "fuck it, I gotta pick these grains."