New A-51 models rw-300 rw-500 and a 90w veg

Yea, I think I will add another xgs and wait to see how the higher output r/w units perform. I haven't flowered with led yet, but the xgs does a bangup job of vegging so far. It's just the footprint seems small for the size my plants usually grow to. O, brave new world!

spazatak said:

the XGS is an "all round light" (jeffs words)... it will do both fine veg and flower...

and as far as grows that have been done there is more evidence of the performance of the XGS than the newer ones...

Not saying the newer ones are better or worse... they just havent been out for long and people are in the process of using them..

I personally would go the RW... but have a look at what people have done with the XGS... your confidence shouldnt be altered

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So far the only difference I can really see is the rw side stretched quite a bit more than the xgs. I ended up rotating the plants around so those that transitioned under the rw are now between both lights. I'm using my sweet tooths to gauge that since there is one under each light.

gk skunky said:

So far the only difference I can really see is the rw side stretched quite a bit more than the xgs. I ended up rotating the plants around so those that transitioned under the rw are now between both lights. I'm using my sweet tooths to gauge that since there is one under each light.

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interesting..


how far are you through your grow?

About 4 weeks. I'll snap some pics. Hold on.

Sweet tooths are the back left and front center. The center tote was on the right side directly under the RW for about two weeks. The one that is on the right in the pics was center and as you can see the branches on the right side of the tote stretched more also than the branches on the XGS side. Also the left hand tote with the sweet tooth in the back has always been under the XGS. So I think for next round I am going to try and borrow a light meter and try to figure out the best way to angle the lights to get the best levels and blend the spectrum better. IDK still got some observing to do though.

shnkrmn said:

What does this mean for the future of white lights like the xgs190? It's odd that they come out with a popular light using a white spectrum and then their next products revert to r/w. I have an xgs and am thinking of adding another one, but this move at a51 sort of rattles my confidence that is the right thing to do. Thoughts, anyone?

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They have come out with a different spectrum each light/year...
First the SGS= 4700K white + 630nm red?? or at least close to that white K
Then the XGS= all 3750K white
Now the 150=5700-6200K white + 630nm red

K temps can be used as a reference blend and general feel of the spectrum...far from totally scientific...but gives a general ideal of the color blend ration imo...

HPS =-2100-2200K
Then great DIY are around 3000K mostly...and soon to implement 2700K when they become more accessible in higher bins.

For reference since a51 uses similar in spectrum...AT's R2 which uses 6100K + 630nm red comes out to 2770K...


I have tested many different spectrums form all white to R/B...as lang as they quanta(output energy/PAR foot print) is the same the yield will be about he same...very slight difference in shape and structure, but yield will be about even if the same output is given. And since A51 uses the same performing chip to make the spectrums(slight diffs between the white efficiency) they should all be about the same in the end watt for watt.

Anymore news on this? I was gonna go ahead and get a 190 then decided on the rw 150 after some info gathering and now i've decided to wait it out. Any estimate on prices?

forb1d said:

Anymore news on this? I was gonna go ahead and get a 190 then decided on the rw 150 after some info gathering and now i've decided to wait it out. Any estimate on prices?

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I'd go ahead and pull the trigger on the RW-150. It definitely isn't out performed by the XGS as far as I can tell so far. Though this current grow went less than ideally(under statement honestly) with early on root issues, then damn pH issues with this canna that's supposedly pH perfect. Going back to coco to get a more clear picture until I can actually set down, design and test a small scale water chiller and then probably just go tables. But anyways. Stoned and rambling. The RW is a great lamp. Can't go wrong there. Cheaper and less wattage than the XGS with = if not better flowering power. Not too mention honestly a better all around full cycle option. I honestly think the RWs whites are better suited for veg than the XGS's. Though with the 630 XPEs it's more suited for flower as well. XGS works well too, but I think I'm going to be more in favor of the RW after a couple more rounds. I like what I'm seeing so far. Honestly I'll probably wish I had two RWs instead of the XGS/RW combo. XGS seems to operate warmer as well, which isn't much of a surprise being all white and higher wattage.

the canna terra stuff? thought about trying that and coco for a first time. as for coco how hot can it get before roots get problems at all? No outdoor use?
As for the main topic, I'm in no rush to get one if waiting on a 300watt rw model is worth it. Although depending on what the cost would be on it I might be better off grabbing a 150 now.


Edit: Only $10 difference between 190 and 150

forb1d said:

the canna terra stuff? thought about trying that and coco for a first time. as for coco how hot can it get before roots get problems at all? No outdoor use?
As for the main topic, I'm in no rush to get one if waiting on a 300watt rw model is worth it. Although depending on what the cost would be on it I might be better off grabbing a 150 now.


Edit: Only $10 difference between 190 and 150

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Ahhh. It was like a $75 difference. I'd just get two 150s, that way it's more flexible for spread and height than the 300.

I'm using canna aqua in DWC and it fucking sucks with RO water. I can say AN Sensi coco 2 part pH perfect with coco and RO is money. No issues at all. Funny because I decided to try canna again after bad experiences in the past because tons of people rant and rave about it. Yet I hear nothing but bad things about AN. Well I'm starting to believe everyone is talking out of their asses because for what I'm working with and in my area and my environment AN was way easier and did fine. If you are going to try canna in coco I'd for sure get their coco line. Though I'd honestly just do the AN stuff. Cheaper and works better. I spent $70 total(Sensi a&b both veg and bloom, and bud candy) on my last round of nutes, this round I've spend about $200 on canna and other bullshit just to get it through(Canna A&B vega and flores, canazyme, rhizo, pk13/14, cal-mag plus, superthrive, pH up and down, great white, 30% H202 for cleaning and resetting). So if it were me I'm not sure if I would even try the canna cocogr or whatever they call it.

gk skunky said:

I'd go ahead and pull the trigger on the RW-150. It definitely isn't out performed by the XGS as far as I can tell so far. Though this current grow went less than ideally(under statement honestly) with early on root issues, then damn pH issues with this canna that's supposedly pH perfect. Going back to coco to get a more clear picture until I can actually set down, design and test a small scale water chiller and then probably just go tables. But anyways. Stoned and rambling. The RW is a great lamp. Can't go wrong there. Cheaper and less wattage than the XGS with = if not better flowering power. Not too mention honestly a better all around full cycle option. I honestly think the RWs whites are better suited for veg than the XGS's. Though with the 630 XPEs it's more suited for flower as well. XGS works well too, but I think I'm going to be more in favor of the RW after a couple more rounds. I like what I'm seeing so far. Honestly I'll probably wish I had two RWs instead of the XGS/RW combo. XGS seems to operate warmer as well, which isn't much of a surprise being all white and higher wattage.

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This is great info skunky and answered a lot of my questions as I'm also trying to decide between the RW-150 and XGS-190. You've pretty much pushed me towards pulling the trigger on the RW. Did you notice a density difference between the lights? I was told the reds in the RW will help get better density/yield vs the XGS. I'm growing in a 2.5x2.5 and from what I can tell a single RW is all I should need.

Was just told by a buddy to check out the grow northern ms0006 just throwing that out here as well to get an idea. Pretty set on the 150 now

BDOGKush said:

This is great info skunky and answered a lot of my questions as I'm also trying to decide between the RW-150 and XGS-190. You've pretty much pushed me towards pulling the trigger on the RW. Did you notice a density difference between the lights? I was told the reds in the RW will help get better density/yield vs the XGS. I'm growing in a 2.5x2.5 and from what I can tell a single RW is all I should need.

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Well with the issues not positive what's due to the light and what's situational. Both sweet tooths under each light were puney small compared to last round in coco. Yet the Jamaican d is bigger and more dense. The sd is pretty much the same. Chunky d is redonk under the rw but it hasn't been ran under the xgs alome. So I'd only feel confident saying the rw can do what the xgs does with less power.

I grow in Canna Coco, so I'll offer a little input on the nutes. I do seem to prefer House & Garden nutes over Canna, some may disagree. As far as Canna sucking with RO water, are you adding 5ml/gal Cal Mag first? That's what I do. I've had good results with either the H&G Cocos AB or Aqua Flakes, either works.

I recently read a thread where a guy uses nothing but GH Maxibloom (powder) for his Coco, says it works great. Maxibloom is buffered to 6.0 pH, so it's not too high (coco likes 5.8 ) and he says it just works with no hassles.

I also read from an experienced grower who has run organic soil, coco, dwc, etc... that the Bloom Advanced Floriculture Euro AB (yellow bottle nutes) give the most soil like taste results from coco. He said their Humic product is like liquid soil, supposed to be good stuff. He likes the yellow bottles better than house & garden.

Cal mag at 4ml/gal. Then A at 10ml/gal then b. Same for rhizo at first Then down to 2ml. Next cannazyme if using it. Usually run that around 8mL. If no cannazyme h202 at 3ml/gal. pH comes in at 4.3..... without h202 and calmag. 6.4. With just cal mag and canna complete line 6.7. Same with pK. But if add cal mag and h202 goes to 3.7 with no cannazyme. Canna even said on the phone the others were compatible with h2o2. Just not the zyme. AN was 5.8 at all times. Then even on the plants that are almost done if I set to 5.6 its back to 6.4 in a couple days then I just leave it as to not chase pH.

Sounds like maybe you should stick with AN then. I don't like chasing pH either, I adjust when I mix it and that's it. The H&G with calmag drops RO water down to 3.7 or so, I pH it up to 5.8, no biggie. Sometimes I add a little silica, which raises the pH and may help to stabilize it too.

I also noticed that Canna's Rhizo and Zyme go bad pretty quick, I liked the Boost though. Expensive, that Boost.

CaliWorthington said:

Sounds like maybe you should stick with AN then. I don't like chasing pH either, I adjust when I mix it and that's it. The H&G with calmag drops RO water down to 3.7 or so, I pH it up to 5.8, no biggie. Sometimes I add a little silica, which raises the pH and may help to stabilize it too.

I also noticed that Canna's Rhizo and Zyme go bad pretty quick, I liked the Boost though. Expensive, that Boost.

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Hmmm maybe I should compare bottle dates. Because I did just open a new bottle of rhizo and got that Damn white slime. Rinsed cleaned. Came back stronger in a day. No rot. So transplanted out of dwc into coco and gave some great white to it After a second thorough root cleaning.

gk skunky said:

Hmmm maybe I should compare bottle dates. Because I did just open a new bottle of rhizo and got that Damn white slime. Rinsed cleaned. Came back stronger in a day. No rot. So transplanted out of dwc into coco and gave some great white to it After a second thorough root cleaning.

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It's been a while since I've used those, but as I recall, the smell was a good indicator of freshness too.

When in doubt, I suggest cutting out all the additives for a while and just going with some good base nutes. That's what I like about the H&G, plants do just fine on nothing but AB base.

I find that too much additives in coco can tend to muck it up. If you just transplanted into coco, I would just give them the cal mag and base for a bit, to set the cation exchange buffer or whatever that is. I too have been using the Great White, every other watering though.

CaliWorthington said:

It's been a while since I've used those, but as I recall, the smell was a good indicator of freshness too.

When in doubt, I suggest cutting out all the additives for a while and just going with some good base nutes. That's what I like about the H&G, plants do just fine on nothing but AB base.

I find that too much additives in coco can tend to muck it up. If you just transplanted into coco, I would just give them the cal mag and base for a bit, to set the cation exchange buffer or whatever that is. I too have been using the Great White, every other watering though.

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Yea same with AN. A and B did the job fine. And yeah when I moved those two from dwc to coco I did just that. Vega a and b at 8ml and the cal mag. Then 10oz of great white solution, 1/2tsp in a gal. Wish I could have found physan 20 locally then I could have beat the slime. Some ancient forest would help too but none of that either. Sooo coco and great white it is. I'll do another bucket innoculated to see if I've got rid of the cyano infection traces.

I just dump the Great White powder in the reservoir and stir it up. It smells within a few minutes, so I think it works OK that way too. BTW I'm told the Oregonism is pretty much the same as GW but cheaper, I'll probably try it when the Great White runs out.