New grower, seeking general advice...

Santanaut · May 7, 2018

Hello trusted folks from rollitup! Long time lurker, first time poster here... I'm actually going through my first growing experience and I gotta say it's damn satisfying seeing the lady grow.

My project is not the most professional thing you'll ever see, that's for sure, but I'm a dedicated lad, I pay attention to detail and I do the best I can with the resources I have at hand.

This is my plant right here, it's Think Different Auto by Dutch Passion. It's been 6 weeks from seed today, growing in soil (Homemade mix: 3pts potting soil, 3pts peat, 2pts perlite, 1pt vermiculite), some heavy LST, under a 150w LED in a 15 litre smart pot. DIY carbon scrubber with exhaust fan and a small fan moving the air inside the grow space. Temperatures so far range from 25°C to 30°C when it's a hot day. I'm not measuring or controlling humidity and I do PH my water at approximately 6.5. It also started flowering a little over a week ago, maybe two weeks.

I just snapped that pic and she's looking a little droopy, but it's almost lights out (18/6 cycle) and she does that a few hours before going to sleep. She's pretty perky and looks beautiful in the morning.

I've been feeding her very lightly and I did have a few pest problems so far which I was able to control using hydrogen peroxide (fungus gnats) and neem oil (aphids). I blame the cheap soil I bought which I'm pretty sure was full of critters. Lesson learned.

Now, as you can see in the following pic, I managed to slightly burn the tips of my leaves with the bloom nutes (I used 1/4 diluted dose), but it also started showing some yellowing in the serrated parts (teeth) of its leaves, starting from the tips. Only a couple leaves are showing this symptom.

The tip burn/yellowing combo has me confused and I'm not sure if this whole deal is related to a deficiency I could control by supplementation.

Also, the bottom leaves, generally hidden from light due to impenetrable foliage, are doing this (pic above). They are not crispy but rather soft and flexible.

I've read the deficiency guides and tried to interpret them the best I could, my conclusion being I should probably feed some nitrogen to address the bottom leaves dying and some cal mag to aid the yellowing leaves on top, but I'm not sure because doing so would mean feeding twice in a row, feeding nitrogen during bloom and the potential danger of further burning.

So... any ideas? Sorry for the lengthy post and thank you for reading!

Joint Monster · May 7, 2018

IF all your critter problems have been dealt with, then, what came first.. the burnt tips or the yellowing?

What nutrients are you using? 1/4 strength should not be that strong? PPM reading would help.

It is okay to have some of the very old growth to yellow/die in late flower. Although yours may be caused by your imbalanced nutrients. (Or bugs if you do have those..)

It could be nute lock out, then adding more nutrients will not help your problem.

I would suggest a RO/Plain water feeding. (PH'd water) You could add some light calmag to that.

You may also try upping your ph from 6.5 to 6.7/6.8? (Although I'm not completely sure on that.)

Santanaut · May 7, 2018

Joint Monster said:
IF all your critter problems have been dealt with, then, what came first.. the burnt tips or the yellowing?

What nutrients are you using? 1/4 strength should not be that strong? PPM reading would help.

It is okay to have some of the very old growth to yellow/die in late flower. Although yours may be caused by your imbalanced nutrients. (Or bugs if you do have those..)

It could be nute lock out, then adding more nutrients will not help your problem.

I would suggest a RO/Plain water feeding. (PH'd water) You could add some light calmag to that.

You may also try upping your ph from 6.5 to 6.7/6.8? (Although I'm not completely sure on that.)

Hey man! Thanks for the quick answer! Let's see... The burnt tips definitely came first, almost immediately after the first bloom feeding. I'm not seeing any bugs for now. Gnats have been long gone and aphids have been absent since the last neem oil treatment a couple days ago.

I haven't been measuring PPM and the nutrients I'm using come from a domestic brand, advertised as specific for organic grows. Veg nutes are 4-1-1 and flower nutes are 0-13-16 but they also say 0-30-20, don't know whats up with that.

morrisgreenberg · May 7, 2018

whoa whoa, first off tht plant looks fantastic, bravo to you, thats minor leaf nute burn, but what has me concerned is the aphids, you sure you had aphids? aphids may be the worst thing ever and your plant does not look like it has root aphids, i got them and i live on the east coast, i got them from cali cuttings, cali has the worst pests ever! worse than mites, i agree with JM, your nutes are weak considering the size of the plant, which makes me believe you have salt build up in the roots, flush with plain PH'd water, capture some runoff water and test it to see what rootzone PH is, this will give a better idea on the real issue, the main issue your going to have n here is that people will try to diagnose your plant by looking at pix, when your not 100% certain, flush and test that runoff, most problems are PH related, this may be from fertilizer residue building up in your pot over time if you been feeding with every watering, good luck bro and enjoy, next time give non auto seeds a run...also can you describe wht your aphids looked like? cus im pretty sure a new grower with aphids would have a dead plant in 7 days lol

morrisgreenberg · May 7, 2018

Santanaut said:
Hey man! Thanks for the quick answer! Let's see... The burnt tips definitely came first, almost immediately after the first bloom feeding. I'm not seeing any bugs for now. Gnats have been long gone and aphids have been absent since the last neem oil treatment a couple days ago.

I haven't been measuring PPM and the nutrients I'm using come from a domestic brand, advertised as specific for organic grows. Veg nutes are 4-1-1 and flower nutes are 0-13-16 but they also say 0-30-20, don't know whats up with that.

goodthing i just seen thhis, since we have no clue about your nutrient brand, we wouldnt know is 1/4 strenght is a lot, maybe you should do the flush i spoke about and slow down on the nutes, bcus your def has burnt tips

Santanaut · May 7, 2018

morrisgreenberg said:
whoa whoa, first off tht plant looks fantastic, bravo to you, thats minor leaf nute burn, but what has me concerned is the aphids, you sure you had aphids? aphids may be the worst thing ever and your plant does not look like it has root aphids, i got them and i live on the east coast, i got them from cali cuttings, cali has the worst pests ever! worse than mites, i agree with JM, your nutes are weak considering the size of the plant, which makes me believe you have salt build up in the roots, flush with plain PH'd water, capture some runoff water and test it to see what rootzone PH is, this will give a better idea on the real issue, the main issue your going to have n here is that people will try to diagnose your plant by looking at pix, when your not 100% certain, flush and test that runoff, most problems are PH related, this may be from fertilizer residue building up in your pot over time if you been feeding with every watering, good luck bro and enjoy, next time give non auto seeds a run...also can you describe wht your aphids looked like? cus im pretty sure a new grower with aphids would have a dead plant in 7 days lol

Okay, let me say I appreciate your words, man... loving this community so far! You got me thinking that perhaps those critters I saw were not aphids, but that's what I figured from the pictures I've seen... They are very tiny, smaller than a grain of sand, more like the size of a dust spec... and they were either white or red... hmmmm... they also run really fast for their size!

I will most certainly give the plant plain water next time and measure the runoff PH.

Thank you!

Santanaut · May 7, 2018

morrisgreenberg said:
goodthing i just seen thhis, since we have no clue about your nutrient brand, we wouldnt know is 1/4 strenght is a lot, maybe you should do the flush i spoke about and slow down on the nutes, bcus your def has burnt tips

Sure, will do on my next watering! The soil in my pot shrunk quite a bit over time, from what looked like 14 litres out of the 15 when I first mixed it, it lost a couple inches and now it looks more like 12 litres. I usually water 2.5 litres, so, how much water should I use for flushing?

Santanaut · May 7, 2018

morrisgreenberg said:
goodthing i just seen thhis, since we have no clue about your nutrient brand, we wouldnt know is 1/4 strenght is a lot, maybe you should do the flush i spoke about and slow down on the nutes, bcus your def has burnt tips

Also, it might be important to clarify I've been using white vinegar (1ml every liter) to lower my PH... It's the only thing available I could find for the task. Maybe there's salt in vinegar? I've been very careful with my nutrients, so I'm trying to figure what else could be the cause for salt buildup.

morrisgreenberg · May 7, 2018

how are you testing your PH? and what do you normally PH it to? PH will be the reason why u succeed or fail

Michael Huntherz · May 7, 2018

morrisgreenberg said:
how are you testing your PH? and what do you normally PH it to? PH will be the reason why u succeed or fail

Lol, really now....that’s especially untrue in soil, if one’s soil is at all appropriate. Some dolomite lime will keep that problem at bay. Most good soils will include some pH buffer of a kind.

I don’t pH water or nutrient solutions for soil grows, my water is near enough to neutral, 7.0-7.4 from the tap, it works great.

I pH for hydro, but unless your water is way out of range from the tap do not fuck with it, OP, keep it simple. Also, measure your water parameters, EC, TDS, kH, gH, and pH from the tap, just so you know what you started with, then add your nutes and see where you land. Over time you will learn how different additives affect your pH and get a feel for it.

There is no substitute for taking your own measurements, regularly. Not every time, but often. Don’t measure runoff unless you have serious problems, in which case just flush it real good with plain tap water and skip testing the runoff. That’s for the hydro crowd. Study your municipal water data, and learn what plants need to thrive. Cannabis is not magic, it is merely a plant, a forgiving one..a weed, if you will. Good luck, OP. Don’t fall for the high phosphorus bullshit, either. Class dismissed, lol, sorry for the rant.

morrisgreenberg · May 7, 2018

thank god they are not aphids, aphids are called "root aphids" because they EAT your FUCKING ROOTS, no roots no plant, lol i had one strand of a root left hanging from a cutting, and it looked like a bunch of Grapes, the grapes were a few dozen aphids, plant cancer , but speaking more about the critters, you sure they aint spider mites? u notise any cob webs , have u looked on the un derside of the leaves?

morrisgreenberg · May 7, 2018

Santanaut said:
Sure, will do on my next watering! The soil in my pot shrunk quite a bit over time, from what looked like 14 litres out of the 15 when I first mixed it, it lost a couple inches and now it looks more like 12 litres. I usually water 2.5 litres, so, how much water should I use for flushing?

ok, lets talk about watering because i posted on like 12 threads and everyone is over watering with PH problems,, it does not matter how much water we feed, it matters how often, if u say "i like to water every 3-4 days" thats not cool, you have to let it dry out, ok, no flushing you generally would go like 3 to 5 times the amount of the pot it is in, say your plants in a 3 gallon pot, you can run 9 gallons thru it no issue, u can run 100 gallons thru it if u like, and what this does is cleans it out, for if u have too much nutrients n the soil, or fertilizer residue from giving nutes with every watering, it basically washes away any mistakes, just wait for next watering, overwatering reall just prevents the roots from taking up oxygen, infact, to me, oxygen is more important than anything else, withoutit your plant dies, if water isnt fresh and stagnant/un-oxygenated, your plant will get oxy related problems which are fatal

morrisgreenberg · May 7, 2018

for real, Michael, you should know better than that to say in soil thats "especially" untrue, now your nitpicking on me, besides, since YOU have no need to PH test, noone else should right? not even a novice with plant issues? i have no idea what your skills are like, but thats some bad dope our pumping. lol check mikey out, he "only" ph's for hydro, that sounds like a bumper sticker hehe

Michael Huntherz · May 7, 2018

morrisgreenberg said:
for real, Michael, you should know better than that to say in soil thats "especially" untrue, now your nitpicking on me, besides, since YOU have no need to PH test, noone else should right? not even a novice with plant issues? i have no idea what your skills are like, but thats some bad dope our pumping. lol check mikey out, he "only" ph's for hydro, that sounds like a bumper sticker hehe

Um, okay chief, tell us how it is. I am out.

OldMedUser · May 8, 2018

morrisgreenberg said:
for real, Michael, you should know better than that to say in soil thats "especially" untrue, now your nitpicking on me, besides, since YOU have no need to PH test, noone else should right? not even a novice with plant issues? i have no idea what your skills are like, but thats some bad dope our pumping. lol check mikey out, he "only" ph's for hydro, that sounds like a bumper sticker hehe

Quite the attitude Oh Omnipotent God-like leader.

Flushing the minute there is a hint of burn or other problem is a sure sign of someone who doesn't have a lot of expertise doing anything but the most drastic.

And 3-5 times the pot volume over maybe a little bit too much food? 1X the volume to drop the levels by half would be more than enough. I've flushed one plant in the last 17 years and probably didn't even need to do that.

And just testing the runoff gives you the pH of the water you're pouring thru and not what is actually in the root zone so you should do some research and find out how the pros do it.

OldMedUser · May 8, 2018

Santanaut said:
Hello trusted folks from rollitup! Long time lurker, first time poster here... I'm actually going through my first growing experience and I gotta say it's damn satisfying seeing the lady grow.

My project is not the most professional thing you'll ever see, that's for sure, but I'm a dedicated lad, I pay attention to detail and I do the best I can with the resources I have at hand.

This is my plant right here, it's Think Different Auto by Dutch Passion. It's been 6 weeks from seed today, growing in soil (Homemade mix: 3pts potting soil, 3pts peat, 2pts perlite, 1pt vermiculite), some heavy LST, under a 150w LED in a 15 litre smart pot. DIY carbon scrubber with exhaust fan and a small fan moving the air inside the grow space. Temperatures so far range from 25°C to 30°C when it's a hot day. I'm not measuring or controlling humidity and I do PH my water at approximately 6.5. It also started flowering a little over a week ago, maybe two weeks.

I just snapped that pic and she's looking a little droopy, but it's almost lights out (18/6 cycle) and she does that a few hours before going to sleep. She's pretty perky and looks beautiful in the morning.

I've been feeding her very lightly and I did have a few pest problems so far which I was able to control using hydrogen peroxide (fungus gnats) and neem oil (aphids). I blame the cheap soil I bought which I'm pretty sure was full of critters. Lesson learned.

Now, as you can see in the following pic, I managed to slightly burn the tips of my leaves with the bloom nutes (I used 1/4 diluted dose), but it also started showing some yellowing in the serrated parts (teeth) of its leaves, starting from the tips. Only a couple leaves are showing this symptom.

The tip burn/yellowing combo has me confused and I'm not sure if this whole deal is related to a deficiency I could control by supplementation.

Also, the bottom leaves, generally hidden from light due to impenetrable foliage, are doing this (pic above). They are not crispy but rather soft and flexible.

I've read the deficiency guides and tried to interpret them the best I could, my conclusion being I should probably feed some nitrogen to address the bottom leaves dying and some cal mag to aid the yellowing leaves on top, but I'm not sure because doing so would mean feeding twice in a row, feeding nitrogen during bloom and the potential danger of further burning.

So... any ideas? Sorry for the lengthy post and thank you for reading!

That little bit of burn is no big deal. Just give it water for the next couple waterings and she'll be OK.

Some of those bottom leaves are going to yellow as they aren't getting enough light under all that lush foliage and the plant sucks them dry of mobile nutrients and sheds them. Totally normal.

What is your water like? If tap you should contact your provider and ask for a copy of their water analysis report. If not on your town's website they should be able to email you one. Can be very helpful and hard water can lead to toxic salts buildup where a small flush is needed to keep the minerals from building up too much in your soil. Knowing the ppm and hardness of your water along with what minerals are in it can be crucial to good growing. I only use RO water so never have to wonder if my water is the cause of any problems that may arise.

She's looking pretty damn good!

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS. I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as some are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

:peace:

Joint Monster · May 8, 2018

OldMedUser said:
I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS. I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as some are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

WONDERFUL!
'Tis Shall Keep'ith Me Busy.
Much thanks good sir! @OldMedUser

Santanaut · May 8, 2018

Ok, peeps, thanks everyone for the input! General consensus seems to be my plant is not in danger, so I'll keep pushing, see where it goes. I'll just water and give my tree some love.

OldMedUser said:
That little bit of burn is no big deal. Just give it water for the next couple waterings and she'll be OK.

Some of those bottom leaves are going to yellow as they aren't getting enough light under all that lush foliage and the plant sucks them dry of mobile nutrients and sheds them. Totally normal.

What is your water like? If tap you should contact your provider and ask for a copy of their water analysis report. If not on your town's website they should be able to email you one. Can be very helpful and hard water can lead to toxic salts buildup where a small flush is needed to keep the minerals from building up too much in your soil. Knowing the ppm and hardness of your water along with what minerals are in it can be crucial to good growing. I only use RO water so never have to wonder if my water is the cause of any problems that may arise.

She's looking pretty damn good!

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS. I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as some are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

This is really good info, man, thank you. I kinda figured some yellowing is to be expected and I'll definitely stick to the plain water plan. I live in a small town so I'll go ahead and see what my water company can provide in terms of info...

Thanks again everyone!

OldMedUser · May 8, 2018

Santanaut said:
Ok, peeps, thanks everyone for the input! General consensus seems to be my plant is not in danger, so I'll keep pushing, see where it goes. I'll just water and give my tree some love.

This is really good info, man, thank you. I kinda figured some yellowing is to be expected and I'll definitely stick to the plain water plan. I live in a small town so I'll go ahead and see what my water company can provide in terms of info...

Thanks again everyone!

If you get a report see if you can post it here so I can have a look at it. I'm pretty rusty but did get a diploma in environmental chem almost 30 years ago so can clue you in on potential problems like some minerals being too high and causing problems as the grow progresses. Some water is too high in iron, manganese, carbonates etc that builds up in your soil over time and can cause the pH to be too high or some elements causing lockouts of other elements your plant needs.

Every time you water with tap water almost all the minerals in that water build up in your soil like the crust that forms in your kettle or coffee maker. The plant sucks up the water but just a bit of the minerals so the mineral concentration builds up until it all goes to shit.

We don't have town water here but 15 years ago when we lived in town I called the works office and they emailed me a copy of their water report free. Was already using RO water for drinking and my plants but was curious why the tap water tasted so crappy even after going thru a new Brita filter. 360ppm and pH8. Not good.

:peace:

Santanaut · May 11, 2018

OldMedUser said:
If you get a report see if you can post it here so I can have a look at it. I'm pretty rusty but did get a diploma in environmental chem almost 30 years ago so can clue you in on potential problems like some minerals being too high and causing problems as the grow progresses. Some water is too high in iron, manganese, carbonates etc that builds up in your soil over time and can cause the pH to be too high or some elements causing lockouts of other elements your plant needs.

Every time you water with tap water almost all the minerals in that water build up in your soil like the crust that forms in your kettle or coffee maker. The plant sucks up the water but just a bit of the minerals so the mineral concentration builds up until it all goes to shit.

We don't have town water here but 15 years ago when we lived in town I called the works office and they emailed me a copy of their water report free. Was already using RO water for drinking and my plants but was curious why the tap water tasted so crappy even after going thru a new Brita filter. 360ppm and pH8. Not good.

Thank you, OldMedUser, I appreciate your help! Sorry for the late comeback. I'm currently waiting for a response from my water company, I sent an email earlier today. I think I've heard someone say our water is full of carbonates. Maybe that's what's making my soil so compact.

Just yesterday my soil was dry enough to water, so I did, thoroughly and without additives. The plant seems mostly fine, although now I noticed this brown spots in a couple leaves where the yellowing was:

Maybe I'm worrying too much, the plant's mostly green after all, lol. I should say I'm measuring my PH with those godforsaken drops as it's all I was able to afford at the time. I'm looking into buying a digital meter. The runoff water I measured yesterday was more on the alkaline side. Should I lower my water PH even more?

New grower, seeking general advice...

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