New LP applicant putting his neck out there..

Kootenaygirl said:

Cantnadadan, your insults and wishing harm on others is awful, any body who wishes failure on others is an asshole in my books. Your stance is weak and your ideas show just how clueless you are. How is your bullshit negativity helping anybody? You are doing patients that do not have the same choices as you a huge disservice. We get that you don't like the MMPR, your record has been skipping for months. How about allowing a little intelligent conversation happen without all the politics. How about putting patients and marihuana above your own twisted take, not every one wants to deal with BMJoe or can or want to grow their own. Your bullying does not promote a healthy environment to explore marihuana options. When you discriminate against some patients you hurt them all. When you use your twisted politics to wish harm on canadian families, you cross the line with me. Selfish, short sighted loud mouth, I never would have guessed you were in your 50's, your maturity level is more like spoiled 16.

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appreciate the personal attack to koot....very nice work....

cannadan said:

Welcome to the board Secret advocate
I kinda leaning the opposite way you are....with respect to the MMPR...if I have learned anything here at all
its that there are plenty of people willing to use patients as an excuse to break into an eventual legal market for recreational users...
So I hope you are not going to step on us too hard....like the majority of LP's seem to be willing to do.
and by all means sell your stuff to the states.....maybe they will want it....
I still holding out hope that the court order will get reversed and, if those willing to jump all over patients, to get a foot hold in the commercial market, lose their shirts in the mean time....then so be it...
this all could have been approached differently...but instead stomping the patients into the ground was the way the governments choose to deal with things and those who go along with the government to benefit themselves
should lose out too, just like the PC's will come election day.......

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I agree many people do see it as an opportunity to make money. That's one of the hardest things I've had to overcome when talking to investor types "So how much money can I make?" my first response is "Well it's not all about the money" ...You can guess what happens next. I personally think the market will balance itself out, prices will fluctuate for a while and balance down to something reasonable just around street prices. There will always be basement growers so it will regulate the market a little as well. Some people loose their shirts (unfortunately it will be probably be the nice LP's trying to do the right thing, not being able to off-load their supply, making mistakes like not buying a $50-100k diesel generator). It's my goal to keep it as affordable as possible for patients. I'm looking at this from a 100% medical aspect but we also consider legalization in our future plans, I can't imagine how patients can afford paying more than $5/gram. I make a decent living and couldn't even afford $10/gram let alone anything like the whacky $18/gram i've seen one company advertising (but it's probably going to be more of a novelty). I've have personally seen marijuana help many people in my life for medical reasons, and ruining some friends lives. If and when legalization happens we'll probably expand into recreational strains as well. We'd only sell into the states in situations to keep us a float assuming anyone gets an export permit granted (most growers with ability to export will, and they will probably setup shops in Denver if not already working with owners down there). If all the patients are buying primarily from one LP we need to stay in business somehow. I do have positive hopes for all LP's but always weary too, I hope one day we can all go to the weedstore and choose from hundreds of strains of green like in Denver. As for "drug dealers" they will always be there, growing pot, I think if anything this will probably give them more business as demand will go up. In the end, it will be up to the people. Everyone has to remember the customer is the one who really controls the market if they stick together. If they want to buy from LP's or just keep growing it themselves. In my personally opinion no one should have the right to tell me what I can or can't do with my body/mind.. but hey I didn't really have a choice to be born either, I'm just doing what I can... the right way.

I appreciate your honesty on this matter I find what you said kinda refreshing actually. My original reply was in an effort to start some discussion with you since I saw it was your first post. Though koot is always wanting me to shut up about how unfair I see the mmpr being and at this point I may as well be quiet since it does no good anyways. If your taking the right approach us patients will know and sounds like maybe you are on a more transparent and open path. Good luck

cannadan said:

I appreciate your honesty on this matter I find what you said kinda refreshing actually. My original reply was in an effort to start some discussion with you since I saw it was your first post. Though koot is always wanting me to shut up about how unfair I see the mmpr being and at this point I may as well be quiet since it does no good anyways. If your taking the right approach us patients will know and sounds like maybe you are on a more transparent and open path. Good luck

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Don't Kgirl control what you post. I still enjoy reading your posts!

Thanks brother. Don't mean to be negative so much. Just can't find much positive from my perspective of the mmpr. Bottom line days are counting down and stress is building

Say what needs to be said. From a personal perspective I think it's horrible and criminal in my books NOT to allow people access to affordable alternative medicines like marijuana and force them on big pharma and pill pushers in the 21st century. How can anybody profiteer from peoples well being? It's horrid, all because they think it's the right way because of this or that. Even if people don't use it as a medicine, it all comes down to personal freedoms. We were all born on this planet and no one should have the right to tell us we can't pick that flower because "they" don't allow it or think its right. Who gave those people the right to be god? Did they create the genes, do they own it? They want to. *cough*monsanto*cough*. The people in power really don't give a hoot about any of us, we're seriously all statistics on someones spreadsheet or powerpoint presentation presenting to higher ups. Big pharma is probably looking at marijuana right now figuring out what to do next especially since they have many commercial pills based on marijuana. I bet their argument will be, this new pill has what you need... use that instead. Oh wait I think there is new pill coming....Then LP's will be forced to grow for big pharma "eeek" hope not. Marijuana is a HUGE threat to them and many politically rich families around the world, they see it as a threat to their bottom line. You will keep seeing many silver lined pockets fighting back with doctors, scientists etc. I bet most of them are doing it because they have to, or just following their peers .... Just like the DEA in the USA whining about legalization *cough*funding*cough* Big pharma will be tightening their grips wherever they can. Especially when it comes to media reports they can afford to get headlines saying "bad" or "good" in the media over and over until everyone follows. Sorry, I think I'm getting into a too deep rant here. It's not a conspiracy, its just greed, plain and simple. Everyone is inherently selfish to some degree by nature and they will make decisions to save themselves, save their pay cheque and lifestyle in the end. LP's will do what they need to do to survive, but a few of us can strive to make real change even if it's a small ripple in the ocean.

There is very little big pharmacy won't do to ensure
their market share.
When it comes to lobbying gov or wooing the law
it's hard to compete with their deep pockets

under the mmpr model I will be forced back into
liver destroying meds / narcotics simply due to cost
if your gonna make ripples in the big pond then keeping
patients first is the right reason to do so.
Thanks for your insights.

cannadan said:

Thanks brother. Don't mean to be negative so much. Just can't find much positive from my perspective of the mmpr. Bottom line days are counting down and stress is building

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I feel the same way. Not much positive from this patients perspective. When I hear now PN upped their prices....well what more is there to say...it will be interesting to see how things unfold over the next few months as well as who will still be standing. Chin up! Full steam ahead.

Thanks for sharing. I've also been through many different different highly addictive prescription meds. Felt like an experiment at times, with life threatening side effects and now permanently damaged because someone else thought they knew best. I can't believe they would even give some of those things to a human being. I understand exactly what your talking about. Cheers.

well SecretAdvocate when I consider where you are coming from its refreshing to have someone put the patients first in their plan...not to say others on here trying to become
lp's are not compassionate... but they also have no problem stomping anyone who disagree's with them on the MMPR and try to pass us off as wanting to complain and nothing else....
I might add that koot seems compassionate....but every once and a while, her posts indicate to me that she hasn't really read or comprehended what was being said or how I qualified my answer to you earlier in the thread....
bottom line for me is that there is no way I can justify spending 20 plus thousand each year on MMJ, to fill my prescription and for personal reasons I can not do illegal mmj....I know I'm not alone,but in twenty days or so I will be alone to suffer on my own with
no other back up plan.....for pain control....except to go back to my legal pusher for fentanyl.....which is a very rough drug to take.....


I did not say anything hurtful to Canadian families....but rather was saying those LP's who use patients only.... as their in.... for the future recreational market are doing a dis-service to the patients....and if they fail
SO BE IT>>>>>>>
maybe she was having a bad day....and needed a whipping boy....I don't know...

WHATFG said:

I feel the same way. Not much positive from this patients perspective. When I hear now PN upped their prices....well what more is there to say...it will be interesting to see how things unfold over the next few months as well as who will still be standing. Chin up! Full steam ahead.

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As the lp's raise prices, they lower the total amount of us who can truly afford to medicate, without having to give up some other aspect of your life....to do so.
That being said.....there will be some for which money will not be an object..... and trust me ,I'd like to live on Marihuana island too....but if they have blinders on and are only thinking about themselves,
there will be plenty of people lining up to take their cash....
I understand what pain relief can be worth to someone...suffering....so they will pay it...? yes .....but do they want to.?....no?
I also understand why those who have entered into this program in the last few months to a year,are buying from LP's.......its their only legal option......and there is no faulting anyone for that....
I have actually been appreciating the insights that some of the newer participants have been providing.....with their reviews of the few LP's that are operating.....
they are a window into the lp world...that I can not open up myself....(not surprised at all by what we have been seeing and reading either price escalation at the drop of a hat..quality issues good and bad.)
anything over 1.50 to 2 bucks a gram is out of my price range....wonder how many LP's are gonna want my business??

I am finding things kind of stressful compared to when I started in the program 1 year ago....back them it was a relief to be legal.....but since the MMPR began and we were outted by HC I have been having a rough time
finding any relief from the stress and rarely sleeping... even additional security measures I have implemented...only help a little.....
I have my family to concern myself with as far as safety goes....we all know we can not put them in harms way...
So has MMJ been worth it......the relief compared to the grief....hmmmm still out on that one.....but the balance keeps swinging towards the not side....

my apologies to the OP for high-jacking your thread......thanks for putting your neck out there.....

WHATFG said:

Don't Kgirl control what you post. I still enjoy reading your posts!

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I respect Cannadan's perspective and do not want to control anybody, wishing harm on others is not acceptable though.

Please continue to post your opinions, we need all the different points of view here to really learn anything, I have learned from others here about marihuana and how different people interact with it and see their rights associated with it. My opinions are all been constantly adjusted by this forum.

If you have been reading my posts you will see that I have not taken sides on the MMPR issue. I am for marihuana freedom and patient freedoms and against any kind of restrictions on either.

I see injustice when it comes to LP's, "government grows" and MMAR blame, the LP's, and patients will soon be the only two legal voices able to speak out without fear. These two voices are on the same side, full legalization. Having one voice cut the other down is counter productive.

Let's all put cannabis and patients first, this makes it easy to take sides. Fact... Of the 30 plus wannabe's and the two LP's I have chatted with privately... not one is against personal growing or full legalization. We've all seen the power patients wield... NOT!!! Think about it, it will be LP's that can and will lobby for legalization. Do what you have to do to get your meds, but support LP's (mentally, if not financially).

I am a patient, a fucking frustrated PUPL holder, was a rec user, and a wannabe LP, I can't choose between the sides that have been drawn up, time to draw a new line in the sand and maybe hold our noses a bit while the LP's get their shit together. I just believe our words/actions need to be focused properly in a constructive direction.

If patients could rally together it would be under a moderate flag, that would give us a small voice, but at least a voice, add that little voice to the bigger LP voice all backed up by public opinion, we become unstoppable... THE election issue... maybe to much to hope for.

A few months back I was told that I was sounding like a broken record too, they were right, I was doing some repeating which in hind sight sucked, sorry... I stopped...

I apologize for being so harsh Dan, just got pissed... no excuses...

I gotta know how I wished harm on anyone? Hoping they fail as an LP? That will have nothing to do with me. I have made it clear from day one that I do not support the mmpr or LP's. My opinions and position haven't changed. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but don't relish the fact that come April 1, 2014, I will be breaking the law in a fairly significant way. I'm not just carrying a few joints. I don't like the idea that this fight has been fought and won by many patients who came before me, and now has to be fought again. Just because this country has an incompetent, malicious, punitive government that couldn't manage 35000 people, me and a whole bunch of sick people become criminals without doing one thing to hurt another human being. Am I upset? You bet! I look for support from the people who are in the same boat as me...not the people who are trying to sink me and, unfortunately, right now that is LPs. So you don't like my constant opinion...I'm ok with that. I've tried to start more than one conversation here.

Sorry was not talking about you Whatfg...only regarding controlling others posts.. easy big fella...

Kootenaygirl said:

I see injustice when it comes to LP's, "government grows" and MMAR blame, the LP's, and patients will soon be the only two legal voices able to speak out without fear. These two voices are on the same side, full legalization. Having one voice cut the other down is counter productive.

Let's all put cannabis and patients first, this makes it easy to take sides. Fact... Of the 30 plus wannabe's and the two LP's I have chatted with privately... not one is against personal growing or full legalization. We've all seen the power patients wield... NOT!!! Think about it, it will be LP's that can and will lobby for legalization. Do what you have to do to get your meds, but support LP's (mentally, if not financially).

I am a patient, a fucking frustrated PUPL holder, was a rec user, and a wannabe LP, I can't choose between the sides that have been drawn up, time to draw a new line in the sand and maybe hold our noses a bit while the LP's get their shit together. I just believe our words/actions need to be focused properly in a constructive direction.

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The marijuana movement will not beat the alcohol and tobacco industry. They are trying this in the states and losing miserably. You think that cigarette companies want competition that is "healthier".....they have a lot deeper pockets than any LP and will make sure LPs stay exactly where they are....

Thanks Koot....I really tried to qualify my statement....regarding lp's..
don't think I was lumping all of you together....I realize some are driven others have compassion....
anyways was not trying to get anyone's back up specifically.....and I do the negative side of things pretty good....lol
German1 is right too.....they do not want to forgo any market share...they have....
big pharma ,big booze big smokes and Norml make for strange bed fellows.....but they are all fighting legalization...

cannadan said:

my apologies to the OP for high-jacking your thread......thanks for putting your neck out there.....

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No worries, I amctually glad this is being talked about. I'm with you on your concerns as well. Hopefully, small producers like the ones on this thread will be able to find ways to cater to patients who can't afford the prices being listed by producers. I know that for us, hearing that patients have to go back to stronger meds is the worst possible outcome for all this. The whole point of using MMJ is to avoid those things in the first place! Has anyone put mention in on opening a foundation to supply MMJ to the most financially restricted for free? We've been discussing this with the gov in Quebec, but with the political uncertanty here, who knows what's going to happen?

How ever we look at it, as producers we are responding to legisltation put in place by the governement. I'll be fighting in the courts for people to be able to grow their own meds, like all other medical users should be. I also beleive that their is room for both to live together. Many people will benifit from having a wide selection of legal producers to pick from. And IMO the people that grow the best product will be known pretty fast and be pushed up to the top. If patients can rally behind the producers they believe in, then they will be able to have more of a voice in what products will cost, howe they will be produced, etc. Like with food, every dollar one spends with an LP is like a vote.

WHATFG said:

I gotta know how I wished harm on anyone? Hoping they fail as an LP? That will have nothing to do with me. I have made it clear from day one that I do not support the mmpr or LP's. My opinions and position haven't changed. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but don't relish the fact that come April 1, 2014, I will be breaking the law in a fairly significant way. I'm not just carrying a few joints. I don't like the idea that this fight has been fought and won by many patients who came before me, and now has to be fought again. Just because this country has an incompetent, malicious, punitive government that couldn't manage 35000 people, me and a whole bunch of sick people become criminals without doing one thing to hurt another human being. Am I upset? You bet! I look for support from the people who are in the same boat as me...not the people who are trying to sink me and, unfortunately, right now that is LPs. So you don't like my constant opinion...I'm ok with that. I've tried to start more than one conversation here.

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I can't vouch for all LP's, but most of the people I've met through this venture over the past few months are not out to sink anyone. Unfortunately, like it often goes, a few people in the old program ruined it for many of us. And I'm pretty confident that it will be hard to prevent people from growing their own meds legally. But the current Gov changed laws, and some of the LP's that are popping up are going to help a lot of people get the meds they need during this phase.

I started this thread to find ways to make this work as best as possible. Not only for us taking the risk by investing millions into these opperations but for the people who need this to stay off drugs that make their lives miserable.

I cant speak for everyone who is becoming an LP, but I'm doing this because I have people close to me who are in the same position as other patients I've talked to on this site. I have a hard time believing that most people getting involved in this and remaining successful would see things otherwise.

Congtrats.

For sticking your neck out there. That's not the way I see it.
Bravo for your intended ideals.
It's to bad though that you try and sway others with your lies. Helps others? Who are you trying to kid here Mr?
It is all about making jack loads of cash from sick people. Side line business as well...in the millions!!!(no comment as this will all come out in the wash.)
I hope all LP's crash and burn hard like any shit business like this should.

Cheers

There you go, perfect, come out of your dark lair! This is an attitude I cannot support, closed minded, no understanding, it sums itself up in a single post, and thanks for not making me argue any valid points.
Look up gb123 in the dic you find a pic. of a brown pucker.