New oxygen technology in RDWC DWC pot grows

Do you believe "low oxygen"events causes fungal outbreaks in RDWC DWC?


  • Total voters
    29

dstroy

Well-Known Member
And how bout those high dollar water chillers everyone loves to buy, ice, res hypothermia and water falls, spray jets and an air venture or maybe double venturies (deliver 2 X more air)? Any opinion on all this stuff or what about just turning down the a/c temperature in your grow-room maybe? Or just open the window if you grow in the mountains (>1500 ft. - >1 mile high elevation) or maybe even move to Canada?

**** Here's a big, BIG question for you - what do you think is the optimal safe DO required to prevent suffocating the rhizomes and good bacteria in the res water and prevent fungal infestations? Ke word here is "prevent fungal infestations." not treat fungal infestation?
Since water can only hold 18mg/l O2, any readings higher than this are physically impossible. There has been tons of research on optimal DO for plant growth, as long as you keep your DO in an acceptable range for the system that you are growing in your roots are excellent at repelling pathogens. Problems happen when DO dips too low, the roots get sick and can be attacked OR if temps get too high (because temp has an inverse relationship with DO). So again, all we need are airstones, and maybe a water chiller.

You are understating the importance of temperature in relation to dissolved oxygen as well. At 86f water will only hold 7.5ppm of DO, the exact same water at 68f will hold 9ppm of DO. The cooler the water is the more DO it will hold. It doesn't matter if you throw a fancy electrolysis heater into the water because the water will only be able to hold a certain amount of DO in relation to the temperature anyways. At the root level this oxygen starvation reduces the permeability of roots to water, and consequently the absorption of mineral salts, which will weaken the plant and eventually lead to a poor crop. Under continuing stress conditions, the roots will emit ethylene, a stress hormone that accumulates in the roots and participates to the slow degradation of the root system. Furthermore, ethylene is recognized by some pathogens as the sign for a weak individual, and a motivation to attack.

Would you look at that, all we need are airstones and maybe a water chiller. hurrrrrrrrrr
 

J Henry

Active Member
I'm opposed to claims being made without the support of either personal experience combined with facts or purely facts, then criticizing other people when they point out reasons they disagree with the one making that claim. Then when questions are asked (i.e. what kind of heat does it generate), more than once, and recieve no answer, it appears to be simply evasive. I've actually been much more understanding than other people who've replied here. But incredible claims require incredible proof; of which I see little or none.
Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. Do you think the International Space Station could be real or no? Now that’s really incredible.
 

FennarioMike

Well-Known Member
O-simpleton, there are many other ways.

OK, Let’s see you will make a little effort today and then you answer back to me what you discover – Spend a quarter and call (952) 373-0424 ask for Ms. Ahmed Saidi, technical assistance. This will take motivation that you probably cannot muster-up.

I don’t do sales, I’m not in the sales racket, but I stayed at Holiday Inn last week up North and slept very well… you’re wrong again as usual.

Did you know “there is no muff too tough to dive, we dive at 5.” (Frogman, San Diego, CA 2001)
I didn't ask the question - TOOL. You did - I was saying to - OK then, what's the answer? Instead you tell me to look it up. I actually don't give a shit - but if YOU'RE so smart - dazzle us with your brilliance and answer your own question then.

Nobody is asking these questions except you, but you obviously have the answer that no one else has - so tell us. Or shut up already.
 

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
Since water can only hold 18mg/l O2, any readings higher than this are physically impossible. There has been tons of research on optimal DO for plant growth, as long as you keep your DO in an acceptable range for the system that you are growing in your roots are excellent at repelling pathogens. Problems happen when DO dips too low, the roots get sick and can be attacked OR if temps get too high (because temp has an inverse relationship with DO). So again, all we need are airstones, and maybe a water chiller.

You are understating the importance of temperature in relation to dissolved oxygen as well. At 86f water will only hold 7.5ppm of DO, the exact same water at 68f will hold 9ppm of DO. The cooler the water is the more DO it will hold. It doesn't matter if you throw a fancy electrolysis heater into the water because the water will only be able to hold a certain amount of DO in relation to the temperature anyways. At the root level this oxygen starvation reduces the permeability of roots to water, and consequently the absorption of mineral salts, which will weaken the plant and eventually lead to a poor crop. Under continuing stress conditions, the roots will emit ethylene, a stress hormone that accumulates in the roots and participates to the slow degradation of the root system. Furthermore, ethylene is recognized by some pathogens as the sign for a weak individual, and a motivation to attack.

Would you look at that, all we need are airstones and maybe a water chiller. hurrrrrrrrrr
Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. Do you think the International Space Station could be real or no? Now that’s really incredible.
Lol you really must be full of yourself to believe you could hurt my feelings....the only thing hurting me is my sternum that just got sawed in half 30 days ago; but if it helps ya sleep at night...
I'd say this thread's pretty much done in terms of proving/disproving the advertised product, yes?
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
He seems to be just trolling
I've been playing this same game with Ms Henry for probably a year now. I almost reported him for trying to get advertising for free but as you'll find out, it's much more fun to mess with him.

He won't answer any ?'s, he plugs o2grow constantly, he doesnt' know shit about growing or DO at all yet he does copy Wikipedia alot and pretends he knows what's up.

Stick around!

He used to call me and @Gary Goodson potty mouths and make fun of our moms and stuff. The dude is getting close to 60 and is completely out of touch.
 

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
I've been playing this same game with Ms Henry for probably a year now. I almost reported him for trying to get advertising for free but as you'll find out, it's much more fun to mess with him.

He won't answer any ?'s, he plugs o2grow constantly, he doesnt' know shit about growing or DO at all yet he does copy Wikipedia alot and pretends he knows what's up.

Stick around!

He used to call me and @Gary Goodson potty mouths and make fun of our moms and stuff. The dude is getting close to 60 and is completely out of touch.
His level of maturity matches that of a teenager...if he is 60yrs old, it is just that much more of a funny observation lol. And yeah it is fun I hate to admit haha, but I try to give everyone a fair chance to explain their side ya know? And yeah I thought that looked like copy/paste (maybe I'm wrong)....anything I say can be confirmed by more than wikipedia, that much I do know.
 

FennarioMike

Well-Known Member
He doesn't get it that his attitude and heavy product pitching just attaches a STINK to his product. Even if it WAS the shit, all of us would go out of our way to NOT buy it just because of that. Furthermore, because he's SUCH a douche about everything, we'll tell our friends, and local grow shops, and local consultants. That's karma, bitch. A little kindness goes a long way and the heavy hand goes the wrong way entirely.
 

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
You are very right Fennario....anytime one comes accross as arrogant or having all of the answers, even if they do, no one wants to even be around that person. At least people like yourself are persistant in ensuring false information is not passed along as fact.
 

J Henry

Active Member
"Since water can only hold 18mg/l O2, any readings higher than this are physically impossible." I don't believe this any more than the cow jumped over the moon, show me how you arrived at this DO concentration limitation,


"...optimal DO for plant growth, as long as you keep your DO in an acceptable range for the system that you are growing in your roots are excellent at repelling pathogens." You are correct, and what DO Sat do you consider an acceptable range that must be sustained continuously throughout the growing season?

"Problems happen when DO dips too low, the roots get sick and can be attacked... You are correct, real big, serious problems. So what DO is too low in your opinion? And, by the way, just how do you accurately measure your DO?

"OR if temps get too high (because temp has an inverse relationship with DO)." And we are back to the heart of the matter, DO -- insuring minimal safe elemental dissolved O2 continuously minute by minute for all the rhizomes and all the beneficial microbial colonies.

"So again, all we need are airstones, and maybe a water chiller." And your solution to insure minimal safe continuous O2 which is vital is airstones, [plenty air bubbles] and water chillers, right?

"You are understating the importance of temperature in relation to dissolved oxygen as well." Yes the relationship is inverse. Lets not omit or discount the direct relationship O2 gas partial pressure has in the big picture, the greater the partial pressure of O2 in water, the greater the DO saturation that can be achieves - but greater than 105% DO Sat is unnecessary.


"At the root level this oxygen starvation reduces the permeability of roots to water, and consequently the absorption of mineral salts, which will weaken the plant and eventually lead to a poor crop. Under continuing stress conditions, the roots will emit ethylene, a stress hormone that accumulates in the roots and participates to the slow degradation of the root system. Furthermore, ethylene is recognized by some pathogens as the sign for a weak individual, and a motivation to attack." Does this mean that insuring a constant supply of the element O2 is absolutely vital? If you are correct, and I believe you are, then what DO Saturation must be supplied 24/7 month after month throughout a growing season?

"Would you look at that, all we need are airstones and maybe a water chiller." I did and, the cow jumped over the moon.... hurrrrrrrrrr
 

FennarioMike

Well-Known Member
He doesn't get it that his attitude and heavy product pitching just attaches a STINK to his product. Even if it WAS the shit, all of us would go out of our way to NOT buy it just because of that. Furthermore, because he's SUCH a douche about everything, we'll tell our friends, and local grow shops, and local consultants. That's karma, bitch. A little kindness goes a long way and the heavy hand goes the wrong way entirely.
 

dstroy

Well-Known Member
1. Don't edit my posts.

2. since water can only hold 18mg/l O2, any readings higher than this are physically impossible." I don't believe this any more than the cow jumped over the moon, show me how you arrived at this DO concentration limitation,

http://www.ramp-alberta.org/river/water+sediment+quality/chemical/temperature+and+dissolved+oxygen.aspx
https://water.usgs.gov/software/DOTABLES/ (this is a good one)
http://www.water-research.net/index.php/dissovled-oxygen-in-water
there are literally HUNDREDS of government and educational websites that support my claim

3. "...optimal DO for plant growth, as long as you keep your DO in an acceptable range for the system that you are growing in your roots are excellent at repelling pathogens." You are correct, and what DO Sat do you consider an acceptable range that must be sustained continuously throughout the growing season?

It depends on what method you are using to grow. Using Kratky's non-recirculating method plants thrive from about 7ppm and up, commercial NFT requires about 40ppm, DWC is ideal above 9ppm. DO sat isn't commonly measured in aeroponic systems.

4. "Problems happen when DO dips too low, the roots get sick and can be attacked... You are correct, real big, serious problems. So what DO is too low in your opinion? And, by the way, just how do you accurately measure your DO?

Again, ideal DO sat is dependent on what growing method is used. With a fucking DO sensor like everyone else. You can also use colorimetric or titration. Winkler titration is the most accurate.

5. "OR if temps get too high (because temp has an inverse relationship with DO)." And we are back to the heart of the matter, DO -- insuring minimal safe elemental dissolved O2 continuously minute by minute for all the rhizomes and all the beneficial microbial colonies.

You actually meant "ensuring".

6. "So again, all we need are airstones, and maybe a water chiller." And your solution to insure minimal safe continuous O2 which is vital is airstones, [plenty air bubbles] and water chillers, right?

Yes, and proper circulation.

7. You are understating the importance of temperature in relation to dissolved oxygen as well." Yes the relationship is inverse. Lets not omit or discount the direct relationship O2 gas partial pressure has in the big picture, the greater the partial pressure of O2 in water, the greater the DO saturation that can be achieves - but greater than 105% DO Sat is unnecessary.

You actually mean how many atmospheres of pressure the solution you are working with is under. Which for everyone is a maximum of 14.7psi at sea level, and less at altitude. Partial pressure solubility is irrelevant in this application.

8. At the root level this oxygen starvation reduces the permeability of roots to water, and consequently the absorption of mineral salts, which will weaken the plant and eventually lead to a poor crop. Under continuing stress conditions, the roots will emit ethylene, a stress hormone that accumulates in the roots and participates to the slow degradation of the root system. Furthermore, ethylene is recognized by some pathogens as the sign for a weak individual, and a motivation to attack." Does this mean that insuring a constant supply of the element O2 is absolutely vital? If you are correct, and I believe you are, then what DO Saturation must be supplied 24/7 month after month throughout a growing season?

Well, I just don't really know how to respond to this. It seems like you are just asking rhetorical questions. Yes, plants require oxygen. I think everyone knows that. Again, the DO saturation depends on the growing method used. There are so many studies about this.

9. "Would you look at that, all we need are airstones and maybe a water chiller." I did and, the cow jumped over the moon.... hurrrrrrrrrr

durrrr
 

dstroy

Well-Known Member
Lets talk about efficiency of electrolysis while I'm in here debunking your bullshit. There is absolutely NO WAY that your system is 100% efficient or you would not be trying to peddle it to pot growers, governmental agencies and companies would be THROWING money at you so fast.

So, your claim that o2grow doesn't heat up water like an air pump and airstone (which they don't usually unless the intake air to the pump is hot.) is

100% false

Even though they are relatively low power, it's still going to dump 30-50% of however many watts you put through it in heat straight into the water. You know, because of the "laws of thermodynamics" and all.
 

J Henry

Active Member
Hey-hey MoronMike, good news… expand your horizons, try on this read and report back.

GrowerTalks - Understanding Dissolved Oxygen by Kurt Becker
http://www.ballpublishing.com/GrowerTalks/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=22058

A healthier plant is a more efficient plant

Ozonation is another method for increasing oxygen levels in solution. Like oxygen injection, injecting ozone gas will increase dissolved oxygen. However, ozone or O3 is almost 13 times more soluble in water than O2. This allows for much greater levels of oxygen to be dissolved into the water. As O3 is very unstable and reverts back to O2 quickly, it leaves super-saturated levels of dissolved oxygen in the water. As the system remains under pressure, the DO levels can be maintained at more than 300% of the saturation level of DO.

While adding dissolved oxygen, ozone has an additional benefit in that it oxidizes organic material and biofilm in the pipes, reducing the oxygen demand and helping to maintain higher levels of DO.

Trials were conducted at Metrolina Greenhouses in Huntersville, North Carolina. Utilizing a portable water-treatment unit consisting of filtration and ozonation, the benefits of water super-saturated with dissolved oxygen were tested against their standard water sources. Three greenhouses were tested side-by-side using identical benching and booms. One used their pond water, one used their well water and the third used their pond water treated with the trial system. Consistently, the plugs in the third greenhouse using the ozone treatment had higher germination rates, faster cropping times, better root growth (see photo) and better leaf development. Measurement of their dissolved oxygen in the irrigation water used in the third house was 300% greater than in the other two houses (see Figure 2).

In a final summary of the trial and of their first year using their own, complete treatment system, Metrolina reported that they saw an average of two weeks shorter cropping time on most liners, with complete cropping time reductions up to four weeks. More robust root systems with less damage and more drought tolerance were noted, as well as the removal of all biofilm from filters and pipes, and an overall reduction in their shrink by 66% from their previous three-year average.

These results are extremely impressive and achievable by others with proper equipment. However, growers can improve the health of their water in the short term by simply paying attention to the dissolved oxygen in their water. At a minimum, monitoring DO in irrigation water can help prevent problems or suggest different courses of action as problems arise.

In the long run, the ability to optimize oxygen levels could improve plant health quality, reduce crop times and eliminate shrink, just as the focus on other input optimization has in the past.

Well, how about those ozone generators MM?
 
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