Nutrient companies are stealing our / your money. Lets talk about it!
- Thread starter jonnynobody
- Start date
pk_boosted2
Well-Known Member
Um yeah but a 3 gallon smart pot is equivalent of growing in a 5/6 gallon regular pot bcuz it can have more than 3x's the root mass because it air prunes the roots perpetually.
U tell me im an idiot and u grow in same 2 gal containers for 2-3 months of veg??? Thats hillarious. 2 gallon pots shud b ur 2nd pot after 2/3 weeks of veg they shud b too big for those containers and def after a month no fuck way. Thats ridiculous.
pk_boosted2
Well-Known Member
I run 5/6 week veg in 5 gallon smart pots through bloom and pull anywhere between 6-8 ounces per plant no problems so idk wtf ur talkin about. And thats with average yielding strains. Ive run white berry and white widow big bud xxl packs and pulled 10 ounces off some plants with a 6 week veg in 5 gal smart pots lol
pk_boosted2
Well-Known Member
I agree with you that u can get away w running 3 gallon smart pots thru bloom on a 5/6 week veg and packing 12-16 per light. But ur not gonna get as much yield running them in less. Pots in 5 gallons. Bigger ur roots bigger ur fruits. Ur killin ur grow by using such a small container period.
pk_boosted2
Well-Known Member
I recently switched over to the 10 gallon smart pots and 7 gallon air pots and ran a side by side. The smart pots grew almost 2x as much flower in dry weight over the air pots and had upper branches fatter than the 6 foot tomatoe stakes. Massive roots are necessary if u want massive fruits they go hand in hand
pk_boosted2
Well-Known Member
Who came up w this i watch my plants to tell me what they need bs anyways.
Bottom line is if u feed what u know plants need u dont got to watch anything but watch them grow lol. U provide what plants need up front there isnt anything to watch. So ur basically saying u wait until u got a problem to feed them more? Thats non sense lmao
U give em base nutrients - calmag and additives and u dont need them to tell u shit cuz u give it to them during feedings. U shud never see any deficiencies period bcuz u provide that for them upfront and dont got do anythjng lol
Bottom line is if u feed what u know plants need u dont got to watch anything but watch them grow lol. U provide what plants need up front there isnt anything to watch. So ur basically saying u wait until u got a problem to feed them more? Thats non sense lmao
U give em base nutrients - calmag and additives and u dont need them to tell u shit cuz u give it to them during feedings. U shud never see any deficiencies period bcuz u provide that for them upfront and dont got do anythjng lol
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
- LOL
pk_boosted2Well-Known Member
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no i veg and flower in two gallon buckets all the fucking time P. and before we even fucking argue.. I'm sure you don't know a 2 gallon pail holds the same media space as a 3 gallon smart pot.
Um yeah but a 3 gallon smart pot is equivalent of growing in a 5/6 gallon regular pot bcuz it can have more than 3x's the root mass because it air prunes the roots perpetually.
U tell me im an idiot and u grow in same 2 gal containers for 2-3 months of veg??? Thats hillarious. 2 gallon pots shud b ur 2nd pot after 2/3 weeks of veg they shud b too big for those containers and def after a month no fuck way. Thats ridiculous.
pk_boosted2, Today at 5:08 AMReport
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pk_boosted2Well-Known Member
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depending on the strain i hit 5 -8 oz on a 5 gallon grow ... but your not verging in a 5 gallon bucket for a month and hitting 6-8 oz.. you still need to utilize your root space or your doing nothing more than having wasted soil nd area...... i also stirp my plants mostly to main colas only .. point being if I'm going to do a 1.5 month veg I'm not going to have more production in a 5 gallon than i would in a 3 gallon as long as the plants needs are met.
I run 5/6 week veg in 5 gallon smart pots through bloom and pull anywhere between 6-8 ounces per plant no problems so idk wtf ur talkin about. And thats with average yielding strains. Ive run white berry and white widow big bud xxl packs and pulled 10 ounces off some plants with a 6 week veg in 5 gal smart pots lol
pk_boosted2, Today at 5:11 AMReport
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pk_boosted2Well-Known Member
I agree with you that u can get away w running 3 gallon smart pots thru bloom on a 5/6 week veg and packing 12-16 per light. But ur not gonna get as much yield running them in less. Pots in 5 gallons. Bigger ur roots bigger ur fruits. Ur killin ur grow by using such a small container period.
pk_boosted2, Today at 5:15 AMReport
#365LikeReply
pk_boosted2Well-Known Member
pk_boosted2, Today at 5:16 AMReport
#366LikeReply
pk_boosted2Well-Known Member
Who came up w this i watch my plants to tell me what they need bs anyways.
Bottom line is if u feed what u know plants need u dont got to watch anything but watch them grow lol. U provide what plants need up front there isnt anything to watch. So ur basically saying u wait until u got a problem to feed them more? Thats non sense lmao
U give em base nutrients - calmag and additives and u dont need them to tell u shit cuz u give it to them during feedings. U shud never see any deficiencies period bcuz u provide that for them upfront and dont got do anythjng lol
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
ummm, unless you uh.. water the plant.Actually as far as leaching goes, microbes and fungal hyphae will bind with nutrient elements due to the cation anion relationship...
If you have a good soil web ya dont have to worry about leaching nutrients out of your soil
Water soluble nutrients get washed away man.
hydroMD
Well-Known Member
Uhh...
Are you familiar with the cation:anion relationship in soil?
Bacteria, fungus, fungal hyphae and roots all carry electric charges (ions) while your nutrient molecules carry the opposite (+/-). A positive ion is called a cation, a negative an anion.
The sediment that makes up your soil can carry these electric charges as well.
Nutrients are Cations, while the soil and microorganisms are Anions.
You will not leach out the nutrients with plain water because Anions attach to Cations and are then binded by organisms, roots, and soil itself.
Are you familiar with the cation:anion relationship in soil?
Bacteria, fungus, fungal hyphae and roots all carry electric charges (ions) while your nutrient molecules carry the opposite (+/-). A positive ion is called a cation, a negative an anion.
The sediment that makes up your soil can carry these electric charges as well.
Nutrients are Cations, while the soil and microorganisms are Anions.
You will not leach out the nutrients with plain water because Anions attach to Cations and are then binded by organisms, roots, and soil itself.
DANK PURPY
Well-Known Member
cureently using the same GH trio. has all your basic needs and happy frog soil seems to do well as far as the mycorizaeThis is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.
I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!
Every time you buy another bottle from another manufacturer and you don't understand what is actually in the bottle and how the plant is going to use it, then you don't even know if you're getting what you need because you never took the time to research how the plant works and what it really needs. Now fancy this; I finally heeded the advice of the seasoned growers on RIU as well as ICMAG (great community as well) and finally asked the question, WHY?
Why does advanced nutrients want to sell me 15 bottles, and GH, and fox farm, etc. to grow some smoke able flowers? Because they are trying to maximize profits and when you are confused and don't have your own information, you accept their information as truth, and then you subsequently have 15 bottles of crap you don't need that you spent too much money on, sitting in your closet. In reality, you probably only needed about 4 or 5 bottles at the most.
Let me share a secret with you that's not really a secret (just don't tell the nutrient companies):
The only things you need are the building blocks that plants require. So what do plants require?
The essential macro elements
The essential micro elements
Healthy roots
Healthy leaves
If you have all 4 of those things, you will produce healthy beautiful flowers. The plants don't care if you spent $400 on your nutrient line, they care about the 4 things listed above which does NOT require 15 different bottles with pretty pictures and silly names like bud blood and so forth.
Simplify your life and use a simple base nutrient that has all of the macro elements, micro elements, and keep your roots and leaves happy. That's it!
Now you will eventually accumulate some bottles as individual situations arise as I have done, but any seasoned grower that understands the plant also understands what the plant needs and it's not expensive nor is it very complicated. It just takes time, initiative, and lots of gumption to sort out for yourself what the nutrient companies don't want you to figure out.
My current line up is general hydroponics flora Grow, Micro, and bloom which contains all of the essential micro and macro elements in the proper proportions for each stage of growth: vegetative and flowering.
I supplement the base elements with floralicous plus from general hydroponics for the sea kelp content and beneficial microbes that help with root zone problems. Every now and then if you have a micro heard going (i.e. beneficial microbes / mycohorrizae) that you need to feed as I do, then once every couple of weeks you will need to feed the micro heard some carbohydrates (i.e. sugars / molasses). GH (and the others) sell it as a carbo load which is only to feed the micro heard which then benefits the roots which then benefits the leaves which then benefits the flowers.
There are of course many factors that a grower will still need to zero in on and adjust to dial your entire environment in other than just nutrients, but a thorough understanding of just what the plant needs will give you a solid foundation for your journey into the mastering of the cannabis plant. Now once you master the plant, you can then train the next Jedi or start a nutrient company and obfuscate the ingredients of you mystery cocktail and sell if for $50/pint. Once you have the knowledge, you hold the power and you can then educate others and help free others from the shackles of misinformation and greed. I'll leave you with the famous last words of Mr. Robert Van Winkle (A.K.A. Vanilla ice):
WORD TO YOUR MOTHER
BTW, I did post this to 2 separate threads to spread the discussion to both advanced and new growers so this information will assist both new and seasoned growers alike (hopefully). My apologies for being redundant if you saw this in the other sub forum.
I totlally agree with this, i've been aware of the nute companys for a while now and have noticed the line grow as to whats needed to grow great bud. It's all a big smoke screen and if you get some good base nutes a flower booster and some molasas & milk your good to go. Read up on your npk's and whats needed for veg and flower. It does not need to be complicated, this plant grows well in the wild, with a little care it grows amazing indoors.
MrRare
Well-Known Member
Well I just finished the entire thread and am frankly very disappointed by the lack of information contained therein. This is supposed to be a forum to exchange information and botanical knowledge. Instead this thread is filled with bickering and banter a very little science to support the claims made. Can we get back to the facts of what works and why?
RockinDaGanja
Well-Known Member
boycott all GH products.
What makes Monsanto greedy.... Are you serious dude? They knowingly sold poison bird seed that killed milllions of birds and fish just to turn a profit or not take any losses (because they're storicide #2 was poison). Also you can become a huge corporation by not being greedy.
Maybe inform people instead of lieing to them.
As far as AN goes i think they are a reputable company but the fact remains you just dont need 15 botttles and you dont need 8. Ive seen people use jacks 10-10-10 all the way through the cycle of the plants life.
Fuck GH. That's how i feel about them. Only thing GH i have left is a huge bag of three inch net cups. Probabley wont even use them. Also for all that money you spend on AN you could have a bad ass supersoil and a few buckets of act brewing. Im not hatin though. try building a soil with everything the plant needs in it. Skip the voodoo lizard cum or whatever there calling there latest "Flower Booster"
Fuck Monsanto though. Look up @vostok thread on Monsanto, and what they do to not just americans but the entire world. Specifically asia.
What makes Monsanto greedy.... Are you serious dude? They knowingly sold poison bird seed that killed milllions of birds and fish just to turn a profit or not take any losses (because they're storicide #2 was poison). Also you can become a huge corporation by not being greedy.
Maybe inform people instead of lieing to them.
As far as AN goes i think they are a reputable company but the fact remains you just dont need 15 botttles and you dont need 8. Ive seen people use jacks 10-10-10 all the way through the cycle of the plants life.
Fuck GH. That's how i feel about them. Only thing GH i have left is a huge bag of three inch net cups. Probabley wont even use them. Also for all that money you spend on AN you could have a bad ass supersoil and a few buckets of act brewing. Im not hatin though. try building a soil with everything the plant needs in it. Skip the voodoo lizard cum or whatever there calling there latest "Flower Booster"
Fuck Monsanto though. Look up @vostok thread on Monsanto, and what they do to not just americans but the entire world. Specifically asia.
RockinDaGanja
Well-Known Member
Yes...... Dont spend 300 dollars on nutrients that claim to contain More chelated metals then another company. Technaflora three part B.C. line up has everything you need and all the extra additives you don't.
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
Hmm interesting you say that here is a good read and results of leaching in both non organic and organic you might find this very interesting people tend to believe the organic growing is actually better. Save the earth when in fact it can actually cause more harmActually as far as leaching goes, microbes and fungal hyphae will bind with nutrient elements due to the cation anion relationship...
If you have a good soil web ya dont have to worry about leaching nutrients out of your soil
so lets set the record straight once n for all lol
http://www.hydrol-earth-syst-sci.net/18/333/2014/hess-18-333-2014.pdf
Also lets get this amount of soil to root mass figured out ..
I used to grow in 3 - 5 gallon pots sog style 5 week veg 70 + plants and harvest 7 - 8 pounds chemical feed
Watering was a night mare, room always a fucking mess, i thought there has got to be a more productive , cleaner way to go about it and achieve same yields etc..
so changed my style i went from typical pots ,, To totes 5 gallon and 34 gallon for final
instead of 70 plants i went 12 plants ,, only difference was training excessive training starting at a early stage
My results with out a reasonable doubt my yields trippled in them totes averaging 14 - 18 oz plants meaning root size is very important more roots more food uptake bigger plants , more yield end of story
you here people mention that your wasting soil i know when i took out them roots in my 34 gallon totes there was no soil as if plants ate it
sure your typical shake root system and some soil falls off but i assure you there was fuck all left of soilAlso i like to note pest control was better room was cleaner and most importantly plants grew fast and big ..
If you do not believe me try it for your self remember i went from 70 plus plants to 12 and achieved same yields same veg time same environment. only difference was instead of pots i went totes with out any drain holes
seriously go get a walmart special tote
buy a 5 - 10 - 15 gallon totes place a plant in it and see the difference in growth size n yield compared to your other 3 gallons plants 
Comparison of the groundwater pollution potential of greenhouses that grow year round vegetables under intensive regimes shows that commercial farms that rely on compost as the main fertilizer source, as commonly practiced in organic agriculture, result in substantial down-leaching of nitrate
compared with farms that rely on fertigation methods, as commonly practiced in conventional agriculture.
http://www.hydrol-earth-syst-sci.net/18/333/2014/hess-18-333-2014.pdf
Darth Vapour
Well-Known Member
you sound like a fucking salesman for technaflora geez man
NPK is NPK use it accordingly and your plant will grow .
I have used miracle grow From start to finish and yes even the dry nutrient soil mix with great result ( Bottom fed ) its experience,,, buy what you can afford.
If these companies sold shit they be out of business long ago , are they ???