On Tax Day ... Thank the Rich.

ViRedd

New Member
On Tax Day Thank the Rich and Support Lifting the Tax Yoke off Them

Friday, April 5, 2002
By: Edwin A. Locke

Lowering taxes on the rich is a just step toward letting the productive keep what they earn rather than forcing them to support the nonproductive

On Tax Day consider some basic facts. The wealthiest 1% of the taxpayers pay 34% of all federal income taxes. The top 50% pay 96% of the total bill. This means that the least wealthy 50% pay almost nothing. In short, the income tax system soaks the rich. In the name of justice, the President, Congress and the American public should be demanding a tax cut that lowers the tax bill of the wealthy.


But the opponents of tax cuts do not want justice. They want redistribution of wealth. They want to confiscate the income earned by the wealthy and give it to people who have not earned it. They want the rich--which includes the most productive people in society--to be the servants of the poor.


The moral principle used to justify income redistribution is altruism. Altruism does not mean generosity or benevolent concern for the less fortunate. Altruism means: other-ism. It is the doctrine that it is your moral duty to live for others and to sacrifice your life, property and well-being for theirs. It is the code of self-sacrifice. Under altruism the productive are the ones who must give and the non-productive are those who receive. The inability or unwillingness of the non-productive to create wealth gives them a moral claim upon those who do.


The tax code enforces altruism through coercion. Earning money through voluntary trade is replaced by getting money by force in order to achieve the altruistic goal the government desires. But when the property of some people is seized and given to others, it is an injustice.

The doctrine of altruism induces (and is meant to induce) guilt. It makes the successful feel that they have no right to their achievements. The goal of altruism is to disarm the producers morally so that they will not defend their right to their lives and property. Thus the rich often support higher taxes for themselves. Remember in recent years, just as one example, billionaires Bill Gates and Warren Buffett attacking a repeal of the estate tax.


Most Americans would be shocked to learn that altruism is the moral code that underlies Marxism (and thus Communism). Marx's credo was: "From each according to his ability; to each according to his need." Man has no right to exist for himself in this view; he is a servant of the state or society, to be disposed of as they see fit.
No, we have not gone all the way down that road yet, though the progressive income tax has been a step in that direction.

Altruism is the opposite of Americanism. Americanism means you have the inalienable right "to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," which includes property rights. It means that your life and property belong to you, not to the state or to society. It means that the government's proper job is to protect, not to violate, rights. Acting in one's own self-interest (while respecting the rights of others) is fully moral--it is the fundamental requirement of a successful and happy life. It means that you are not an object of sacrifice but a sovereign being. It means that your property belongs to you. It means that every individual, whether rich or poor, has the same rights. Self-reliance, not self-sacrifice, is the American ideal. On Tax Day support tax cuts by promoting the idea of a truly just society: where each man keeps what he earns and has no claim upon the life and property of others.

Edwin A. Locke is Dean's Professor Emeritus of Leadership and Motivation at the University of Maryland at College Park and is a senior writer for the Ayn Rand Institute in Irvine, California. The Institute promotes the philosophy of Ayn Rand, author of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Look Vi I have seen two sets of figures out there and it's a toss up which ones are correct. Since the Conservitives (greedy fucks) have been effected by corruption in recent years I doubt the credibility of their figures.

Just remember that Every Great Deomcracy has failed because of internal corruption.
 

ViRedd

New Member
So you, like Med, equate conservative politics to greed? What could be more greedy then the desire for gain at the expense of another?

And by the way ... if you are going to make the claim that "figures are skewed," you really should be able to present the case.

Vi
 

DankyDank

Well-Known Member
God I love your scewed figures.
According to the IRS, Vi's figures are correct, at least for the most recent year for which information is available (link provided below.). When you think about it, the data only makes sense, especially when you take into consideration the vast sums being earned by those with the highest incomes.

But does finding out who is actually paying taxes really make a difference to people who have bought into class envy?


www.house.gov/jec/publications/109/2003taxshares.pdf
 

medicineman

New Member
I,m pretty sure these figures were pre '2002', when Bushs' tax cuts kicked in. If you're going to post tax figures, post the current ones and stop trying to bullshit the "young minds" here on this site. You post anything to further your agenda, sort of like Bush, whether it's true not!
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
danky go back and read what you posted Med is right those are figures that are 2003 and before.I have not been disproven on this one, as much as you may think you have.
 

DankyDank

Well-Known Member
Yo,

I'm not really trying to prove or disprove anything, just trying to say that when you look at the incomes of those involved, the figures make logical sense.

And my real point is this: even if Vi's figures were proven accurate right up until last year, it would make NO DIFFERENCE to people bought into class envy. It's pointless to argue about the accuracy of the figures when the results make no difference to anybody. I mean get real, would your feelings about the rich change if you suddenly came to believe Vi's figures?
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
I'm not even going to dignify that with a comment, I don't need to waste my energy looking it up.
 

tenn1234

Well-Known Member
Let me break it down for you gentlemen.

1) I worked my ass off, 4 years of college, 4 years medical school, 3 years of residency. Thats 11 years to become a doctor. An MD

2) I make, on average, 189,000 a year.

3) I have to pay, 33% of my total income to Uncle Sam. 33%!!!! do you understand this figure? Thats 56,700 dollars. More than alot of people make annually.

4) It's bullshit because 1) the guy that works at McD's down the road only has to pay 5%. and 2) how is that fair to a guy like me who's worked his ass off to get where he is?

I don't consider myself rich, although many would. I'm not a millionaire, but I have worked my butt off to get where I'm at. Why should the lazy man, or just a person who decided to go into a career field that doesn't pay as much have less responsibility than me?

I agree, give the rich a break, they earned it. To the poor, quit your fucking whining and go out and make something for yourself; and when you do, then realize that Uncle Sam wants a bigger cut. Then come argue for taxing the shit out of the rich. Until Then, go smoke a bowl, or better yet, go smoke some pole.

Sincerely,

Tenn1234
 

medicineman

New Member
Let me break it down for you gentlemen.

1) I worked my ass off, 4 years of college, 4 years medical school, 3 years of residency. Thats 11 years to become a doctor. An MD

2) I make, on average, 189,000 a year.

3) I have to pay, 33% of my total income to Uncle Sam. 33%!!!! do you understand this figure? Thats 56,700 dollars. More than alot of people make annually.

4) It's bullshit because 1) the guy that works at McD's down the road only has to pay 5%. and 2) how is that fair to a guy like me who's worked his ass off to get where he is?

I don't consider myself rich, although many would. I'm not a millionaire, but I have worked my butt off to get where I'm at. Why should the lazy man, or just a person who decided to go into a career field that doesn't pay as much have less responsibility than me?

I agree, give the rich a break, they earned it. To the poor, quit your fucking whining and go out and make something for yourself; and when you do, then realize that Uncle Sam wants a bigger cut. Then come argue for taxing the shit out of the rich. Until Then, go smoke a bowl, or better yet, go smoke some pole.

Sincerely,

Tenn1234
Well bully the fuck for you! I suppose someone whom never had the chance to go to college because they were from a poor family and had to help support the family at young age, and has "worked their ass off" from 16 in menial jobs because they were un-educated and now have to compete with illegal aliens for work because the rich business owners want to pay less than a fair minimum wage should have to shoulder your tax burden! I have a lot of respect for doctors, and wish you well. My family Dr. is the neatest guy I know. My figures show that you have left after taxes, $132,300, a tidy sum. If you invest wisely I'm sure you'll make your elusive million, so quit sniveling! You make more than ten times the minimum wage, and although your job requires maximum skills and responsibilities, I think you are justly compensated. Maybe you should have gone into sports, where multi-million dollar contracts are not un-common. Pay your fair share. It seems to me, If you were really a smart guy, you would have found some kind of cheat method to your taxes like all the other rich bastards in this corrupted society. I'm praying for single payer national health care, so maybe you'd better save while you can. Geeze, a sniveling Doctor, who'd a thought!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Money is nothing more than a score board reflection of one's service.

"Well bully the fuck for you! I suppose someone whom never had the chance to go to college because they were from a poor family and had to help support the family at young age, and has "worked their ass off" from 16 in menial jobs because they were un-educated and now have to compete with illegal aliens for work because the rich business owners want to pay less than a fair minimum wage should have to shoulder your tax burden!"

The poor don't pay taxes.

"You make more than ten times the minimum wage, and although your job requires maximum skills and responsibilities, I think you are justly compensated."

You think? Who cares what you think? Do you honestly believe the incomes of persons who have the skill, desire and ability to save lives should have their incomes capped? Your thinking never goes beyond envy, jealousy and greed, Med. If you put a cap on what a person can earn, what is the incentive to continue earning?

"If you invest wisely I'm sure you'll make your elusive million, so quit sniveling!"

Med ... you are an arrogant fuck!

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Money is nothing more than a score board reflection of one's service.

Med ... you are an arrogant fuck!

Vi
Geeze Vi, I didn't think you cared! Are you surprised that I had audacity to take on a Dr.? Hey this an open forum, you post and you takes your lickins. I'm thinking you might be the arrogant one to question my place on this forum to question a Dr. In that post I did pay my respects to Dr.s in general and one in specific, my own! So I guess I'm not allowed to question a Dr. just because he might have more education than me, well obviously not in politics, so I countered him! Me thinks it is thee whom is arrogant!!!
 

ViRedd

New Member
"If you invest wisely I'm sure you'll make your elusive million, so quit sniveling!"

^^^^ That was the comment I was referring to as arrogant. ^^^^

You and your precious federal government continue to beat the bejeezes out of the producers of this world and you have the arrogant audacity to call it "sniveling" when they protest?

Again ... you are an arrogant fuck!

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
"If you invest wisely I'm sure you'll make your elusive million, so quit sniveling!"

^^^^ That was the comment I was referring to as arrogant. ^^^^

You and your precious federal government continue to beat the bejeezes out of the producers of this world and you have the arrogant audacity to call it "sniveling" when they protest?

Again ... you are an arrogant fuck!

Vi
well, i have an even worse opinion of you, You are a greedy fuckall and an opinionated idiot, so take your high minded bullshit and jam it up your ass!
 

ViRedd

New Member
"well, i have an even worse opinion of you, You are a greedy fuckall and an opinionated idiot, so take your high minded bullshit and jam it up your ass!"

Med ...

Instead of resorting to personal attacks, why not just strengthen your arguments?

Vi
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
$189,000 is hardly the top 5% wage earner. Like I said before, those who make $300,000 or More are the ones who should have the taxes raised. Oh BTW the Corrupts CEOs of a lot of the corporations sure as hell didn't earn it.
I have said it before that the Tax Loopholes need to be filled in. As long as no one has a way to avoid paying their fair share and no income goes unreported I have no problem.
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
This is an amusing thread!:mrgreen:

tenn1234 has it exactly right....good post!:mrgreen:
Danky has pinpointed the difference in philosophy on display here.
No recitation of statistics or evidence will enlighten those among us who wish to promulgate the politics of envy and greed.

If the lefties wanted to truly maximize federal tax receipts they would endorse reducing the highest tax bracket. Doing this increases actual total tax revenue....it works every time it’s been tried.
No, I suspect that they are more concerned with penalizing or stigmatizing the biggest earners (because life is not fair!)
 

medicineman

New Member
This is an amusing thread!:mrgreen:

tenn1234 has it exactly right....good post!:mrgreen:
Danky has pinpointed the difference in philosophy on display here.
No recitation of statistics or evidence will enlighten those among us who wish to promulgate the politics of envy and greed.

If the lefties wanted to truly maximize federal tax receipts they would endorse reducing the highest tax bracket. Doing this increases actual total tax revenue....it works every time it’s been tried.
No, I suspect that they are more concerned with penalizing or stigmatizing the biggest earners (because life is not fair!)
You're so far right and you think that everyone that doesn't think like you is so far left, Is there not some ground in the middle where common sense prevails? Does it not make sense that people whom make more can afford to pay more. Is it not feasable that the taxes collected should be used to provide for the welfare of the people. Of course there are lazy no good for nothing drug addicts and criminals, I wouldn,t expect them to be rewarded, But people who are disadvantaged for no fault of their own, are they not due some help from those of us who are better off and can afford to pay. I know you think to let charity do this task. The real truth here is, the rich are just not that charitable if left to their own ideals. The I've got mine and fuck you philosophy is demonstrated over and over just on this forum alone. So to assume that charity would solve societys problems is un-reasonable at best. How much is enough, how much money do you need to live a great life, is a million enough, a billion, multi-billions? Life is not only about how much money you make or have. The fact that you have more affords you the freedoms that most people never know. To be asked to pay your fair share of taxes, even if they seem exhorbitant to you, is the burden place on us if we want to have a cohesive plentiful society, where everyone is treated as a human being, and not some lable placed on them by the shallower captains of profit! If this makes no sense to you then I guess you are beyond redemption and will seek your own selfish agenda!
 
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