Out of ideas could use a second opinion.

So I've been growing a few years now and I've been fortunate enough to not have ran into many problems. Nothing major anyways. I started out with just one plant at a time in my closet using a 200W CFL. Then I switched to a 400W switchable ballast (MH/HPS) still just doing the one plant. Well my roommate moved out so I figured I'd move the operation to that room so I'd have more space.

This is where my problem started. My first grow I stuck with just the one plant, not changing anything about how I went about it. Why fix what aint broke right? Well about 4 weeks into flower I noticed the older growth started to die off a bit faster then I cared for but I figured screw it I'll stick it out and see what happens.

No one should have to see the end result but here it is:

View attachment 2966546

Not pretty I know.

Anyways after this I decided to move to 3 plants in case I had any more problems. To facilitate this I changed my setup to 4ft T5's with 8 on top and 3 each along the sides. I had the same problem here although it seems to improve, at least a little.

I don't have a pic from the very end of the grow but this was pretty well along here:



If you notice the leaves around the bottem you can see that the issue is already taking hold and I assure you by the end the plants didn't look as bad as the other one but pretty darn close. Essentially all the fan leaves were gone by that point.

Now I'm at my wits end by this point but let me show you where I'm at now.

Here's the gal growing in my closet right now:



She's 7 weeks into flower at this point and keep in mind that other then being in a different room this plant has been watered and fed exactly the same as the previous as well as the following plants. This plant isn't ment to be super impressive on the yeild. I just stuck it under the 200W CFL very early in veg so I would have a test bed, treating both crops exactly the same, so I could see how they grew.

And here's the ladies in the other room:



These are right at the 4 week mark into flowering. You can't see it unfortunately because I already cleaned it up but the old leaves are indeed dying off once again. It seems like there doing even better this time but that's just a guess at this point it's simply to early to tell how bad it's going to be in the end.

I guess I better cover some of the materials I use.

Soil: Fox Farm Ocean Forest
Nutes:

For water up until my current grow I used distilled water I bought from the store. I finally realized how stupid this was and setup my own rig:



Tap water that is filtered and well aerated. The closet plant gets thirsty about every 5 days and the other ones every 3.

I should also note that just on this current grow I decided to be more aggressive with the nutrients. So far I haven't noticed any signs of overfeeding from doing this but then I'm not going crazy with it or anything. I have a few other pics from previous grows if you wish to see them for more proof that I do indeed know wtf I'm doing don't hesitate to ask.

I have been monitoring PH levels as well using electronic and chemical testers and this is a non-issue. Also there is no bug problem here.

I have errands I need to run but obviously I'll be checking back so if you have any questions or would like some more information about how my setup is operating then please feel free to ask.

Im fairly certain your problem is magnesium related. I had a similar issue when using fox farms beastie bloomz/cha ching...they don't contain magnesium or calcium if I recall correctly. Buy cal-mag and you should be set...if you are broke then run to walmart and buy Epsom Salt.

May I also suggest buying a TDS meter. It really helps you get consistent concentrations with your fertilizer strength. You can also use it to measure run-off and determine if your plant is experiencing a deficiency or lockout should it show signs of stress.

danky supreme said:

Im fairly certain your problem is magnesium related. I had a similar issue when using fox farms beastie bloomz/cha ching...they don't contain magnesium or calcium if I recall correctly. Buy cal-mag and you should be set...if you are broke then run to walmart and buy Epsom Salt.

Click to expand...

Yea I've thought about mixing in a little dolomite lime with the soil I may do that next time and see if it helps. Couldn't hurt.

I have my doubts though the issues I'm seeing don't share the same characteristics of a Mag and/or Cal deficiency. I don't think it's nute related since they seem to grow fine in one area and not in the other. I guess I'm trying to see some sort of issue with the environment since that seems to be the one factor that's making the difference. The area is clean with no bugs or anything. The one difference I've noticed is the time between waterings. The closet plants goes 5 days no problem while the others go 3 days and are screaming for water at that point (sagging leaves). The soils getting dry in that time to. I suppose I have more air flowing in that setup but I don't see why it would cause the leaf die off either.

Ah well just thinking out loud. Been trying to put a pin in this bugger for awhile now, one day I will find my answer lolz.

My guess then is that the plants that are using their water supply within 3 days are having extreme fluctuations of fertilizer concentration within their medium. As soil dries the salt-to-water ratio increases, thus increasing concentration, thus potentially leading to lockout. I think your plants that don't need to be watered as much have a much more consistent level of fertilizer supplying the plant. I know you said the symptoms don't look like nute problems but magnesium deficiency is shown in yellowing of lower leaves with the veins remaining green. But anyway I feel you on the stress this is causing, it took me a month and a half to even begin to figure out my new nutrient program.

It's hard to tell without a closeup of the bottom leaves in question, but from the big picture, it doesn't look like Mg def to me. I guess you could try epsom salt in one of your buckets to see if it helps.

It could be that you're using too much of that beasty bloom stuff, which is very high in P, or you could just straight up need more N. Also possible it's K+ deficiency if there's too much NH4+, Ca, or Mg.

Sunagwa said:

Yea I've thought about mixing in a little dolomite lime with the soil I may do that next time and see if it helps. Couldn't hurt.

I have my doubts though the issues I'm seeing don't share the same characteristics of a Mag and/or Cal deficiency. I don't think it's nute related since they seem to grow fine in one area and not in the other. I guess I'm trying to see some sort of issue with the environment since that seems to be the one factor that's making the difference. The area is clean with no bugs or anything. The one difference I've noticed is the time between waterings. The closet plants goes 5 days no problem while the others go 3 days and are screaming for water at that point (sagging leaves). The soils getting dry in that time to. I suppose I have more air flowing in that setup but I don't see why it would cause the leaf die off either.

Ah well just thinking out loud. Been trying to put a pin in this bugger for awhile now, one day I will find my answer lolz.

Click to expand...

^^Yeah its hard to say but that's just my guess. Regardless of what specific deficiency it is(if that's the problem) I really do think its a lockout issue. Im going through a similar problem at the moment where im trying to get my nutrient concentrations correct. Im really struggling to keep my stalks from turning purple but I just checked my runoff and it is pushing 2400 ppm which is WAY high. So at least in my case, the nutrients are there but I need to back off on the fertilizer concentration. That could very well be the case for Sunagwa

This is why I highly suggest a TDS meter. It really helps figure out whats going on within your medium

I would trim up all that lower growth any way within the first two weeks of flower. My guess that's dying off from lack of light. You have no side lighting, so all your focus should be on the top of the plant

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Rollitup mobile app

i find i keep everything much greener since i have been adding MagiCal, that has a little Nitrogen, to my foxfarm feeding schedule.

more light penetration will help also.

Sorry I couldn't get better picks of the leaves themselves I decided to seek help after I had already cleared up the latest round of die off. I have some better examples now:



I do in fact have lights going down the side but there still isn't much penetration to the core of the plant. I don't know if that would be an issue though because eventually it spread to all the leaves not just the shaded ones.

The nute lockout is definitely something I've considered but my PH lvls are right around 6.8 even with the slightly more aggressive feeding schedule I'm using this time around. Damn nute lockouts are so easy to misdiagnose though. I tried feeding my last crop some epsom salts and it didn't seem to help any.

In any case thanks for all the help guys and gals it's much appreciated. Even with this issue the plants will turn out fine it's just with the leaf die off I'm sure it's not just affecting how long it takes to flower but also the end yield.

Next time I'ma try the dolomite lime I've heard that also helps keep the PH in check in addition to the extra cal/mag.

If you're feeding the "Beestie bloomer" and nothing with any nitrogen there lies your problem. Contrary to myths, flowering plants need a balance of NPK.....I use 20-20-20 and alternate that with 10-30-20. If you click on any of my signature links you'll see I have no yellowing because I keep nitrogen in the mix.