PAR T5's, Bagseed, FFOF, and me!

Lucius Vorenus said:

How is the firmness of those nugs? Looks like you have your light at least 12" away. I find with T5's this give me really airy buds. My nugs are now rock hard but im keeping my lights literally 1-2" off the canopy.

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Buds are plenty firm for the most part. The light is elevated for the pictures. I keep it between 2-6" when not taking pics.

I be slackin'... just about ready to chop I think... here's another set of pics from today. I gave them a last feeding... will do one more thorough watering in about four days, then a day to dry a little bit, then 72 hours of darkness, then choppy.

Hmm... can't upload pics for some reason... maybe my quota is full or something...

Trying pics again, incoming:

4/25



Yay it worked. Chop is in about 5 days, tune in.

those are looking pretty tasty. I had decent results with bag seed last time, it was a pretty hardy strain whatever it was. Really is a crap shoot though. I spent almost a week trying to pick two specific strains I wanted, and I finally narrowed it down to afghan kush and rocklock

My nugs are starting to dense up really nice, just hitting week 3. Gonna wait a few more days before I put pics up. I dont see any red hairs on mine yet, but the frosty effect is looking (and smelling) fantastic.

Yeah, I am done with bag seed after my next crop flowers. The next crop, four out of five of them are all the same genetics, taken from the best of the first 7 I grew out... but we will see what gets expressed because they are seeds and not clones so there could be a variation to them for sure. Meanwhile, while those are flowering, my kolossus, anesthetic, jackberry F2, and herijuana shall get their first chance

I've got that new 4-bulb going into the flowering chamber for this next batch too... so hopefully I'll see better yields still...

and I look forward to seein your buds!!

I looked alittle more into your op.

Nifty idea with cooling the ballasts, but the vents are already designed to vent heat upwards. When I rest my thermo directly on the ballast and come back in an hour, temps are at about 90-95F. Then again, I have a stand fan nearby pointed at the canopy ^^

For your FF liquid nutes, are you sure youre measuring them correctly? I bought a few graduated 50mL glass beakers (measured in increments of 10 mL since my watering can is 2gallons) for this purpose. Half the time I was slopping the stuff everywhere. Ugh. I use both the liquids and the solids with dynagro pro-tekt for silicon supplement. The silicon is probably why I havent got mold yet, thank god.

I have been using the doses reccomended and havent had an issue. No nute burn here, just deficiency when I was waiting for the bottles to get here and I chopped those nodes off long ago anyways so it didnt hurt my end result any.

To an extent, it IS a racket. However, if we were growing out doors we wouldnt need to flush the soil at all. Mother nature takes care of that for us. We grow oversized plants for the containers we grow them in, and marijuana has a very high demand for nutrients if the conditions of adequate light and CO2 are also present. As a result, the plant poops out a bunch of salty waste lowering the pH. Shrug.

infinitalus said:

I looked alittle more into your op.

Nifty idea with cooling the ballasts, but the vents are already designed to vent heat upwards. When I rest my thermo directly on the ballast and come back in an hour, temps are at about 90-95F. Then again, I have a stand fan nearby pointed at the canopy ^^

For your FF liquid nutes, are you sure youre measuring them correctly? I bought a few graduated 50mL glass beakers (measured in increments of 10 mL since my watering can is 2gallons) for this purpose. Half the time I was slopping the stuff everywhere. Ugh. I use both the liquids and the solids with dynagro pro-tekt for silicon supplement. The silicon is probably why I havent got mold yet, thank god.

I have been using the doses reccomended and havent had an issue. No nute burn here, just deficiency when I was waiting for the bottles to get here and I chopped those nodes off long ago anyways so it didnt hurt my end result any.

To an extent, it IS a racket. However, if we were growing out doors we wouldnt need to flush the soil at all. Mother nature takes care of that for us. We grow oversized plants for the containers we grow them in, and marijuana has a very high demand for nutrients if the conditions of adequate light and CO2 are also present. As a result, the plant poops out a bunch of salty waste lowering the pH. Shrug.

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Regarding the ballast cooling... the idea of that is not to cool the ballasts per se but to remove the heat from the fixture itself more effectively in a cramped space. It's hard to explain why it works, but it does work. If I set up with a carbon filter inside the tent at the top, the temps in the tent at the bottom build a lot more than this method where the ducting is pulling the air from right around the fixture. I am planning to switch it up on my next setup though, as I bought a new 8" fan and 8" carbon filter and I'm hoping the better CFM will be able to take care of that issue. Unfortunately, one of the big issues I have is that the tent size does not accomodate the fixture I have well... there is enough clearance at the ends to allow for some air passage, but the fixture is literally 2 inches shy of the total available depth of the tent. I may switch it up and put the big 8-tuber in the back as back lighting or something to accomodate that... not sure. Don't really want to have 8 tubes of back light and 4 at the top, but it would help airflow tremendously.

In addition to all those cramping issues, there's the added issue that there really is no where to put a fan to kick the heat off the fixture directly. This method (I have added spacers between the ballast box and each reflector bank so the vents pull heat right from the light canopy as well) has allowed me to forego a circulation fan. The only way I can get a fan on there is to have it set up outside the tent.

I am strongly considering reverting to the closet for the flowering stage and ebaying the tent... I can set something else up for vegging... the closet allows me considerably more space to work, though it is way harder to get at the plants in it.

Also, foxfarm nutes are salt-based themselves... whether the plant adds more salty waste or not, the nutes themselves are salt based and therefore tend to add a good bit of extra bullshit into the mix that doesn't need to be there as far as I can tell. I am going to try organic nutes next time just for the sake of comparison. I may have been measuring wrong or simply being overzealous the first time through. I have had a lot better luck with FF this run, but have also never gone anywhere near the recommended dosing listed on the chart.

I hear you. My hut is 48" deep and the fixture is like 46". Thats what I have the clip on and stand fan for though, to both help circulate air in the room and cool the lights / ballasts. Works very well, the plants are loving the light being so close. I dropped it to 2" from the tallest cola, and the smallest cola is only 4" away. When they get to be less than an inch away, I raise it slightly. Their stretching appears to have slowed if not stopped completely. I might drop it back slightly.

The only FF nutrient I dont use is the Kangaroots. Last grow I used chem nutrients and the rootballs were still pretty insane. No need to add this IMO. Im trying out microbe brew, havent used it long enough to have an opinion of it yet. Sledgehammer is useful, cheap compared to the rest of their line, and you dont really need much of it anyway. I didnt have a problem paying $30 for a gallon of it, its gonna last me a while.

The water I use is straight from the tap. Its extremely alkaline and the plants dont seem to mind it at all. Since its so alkaline it also seems to help balance the pH of the nutrients I feed it. I exceeded the reccomended dosage last feed by 5-10ml per nute, and even gave it an extra 1/4 tsp of cha-ching and havent had problems. A day after I watered the pH was at 7.0 teetering toward 7.5. Three days later when it needed water pretty bad pH was at a solid 7.0. Three days after that when it needed water again, still 7.0. I fed them again the other day, this time w/ reccomended nutes. Prolly still 7.0 lol. My ladies are around 3.5' tall so they make plenty of salt of their own. Next grow will be a lot different since Im scrogging but flushing will be even easier with the method I came up with

infinitalus said:

I hear you. My hut is 48" deep and the fixture is like 46". Thats what I have the clip on and stand fan for though, to both help circulate air in the room and cool the lights / ballasts. Works very well, the plants are loving the light being so close. I dropped it to 2" from the tallest cola, and the smallest cola is only 4" away. When they get to be less than an inch away, I raise it slightly. Their stretching appears to have slowed if not stopped completely. I might drop it back slightly.

The only FF nutrient I dont use is the Kangaroots. Last grow I used chem nutrients and the rootballs were still pretty insane. No need to add this IMO. Im trying out microbe brew, havent used it long enough to have an opinion of it yet. Sledgehammer is useful, cheap compared to the rest of their line, and you dont really need much of it anyway. I didnt have a problem paying $30 for a gallon of it, its gonna last me a while.

The water I use is straight from the tap. Its extremely alkaline and the plants dont seem to mind it at all. Since its so alkaline it also seems to help balance the pH of the nutrients I feed it. I exceeded the reccomended dosage last feed by 5-10ml per nute, and even gave it an extra 1/4 tsp of cha-ching and havent had problems. A day after I watered the pH was at 7.0 teetering toward 7.5. Three days later when it needed water pretty bad pH was at a solid 7.0. Three days after that when it needed water again, still 7.0. I fed them again the other day, this time w/ reccomended nutes. Prolly still 7.0 lol. My ladies are around 3.5' tall so they make plenty of salt of their own. Next grow will be a lot different since Im scrogging but flushing will be even easier with the method I came up with

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Sounds like your fixture situation is the same as mine more or less... like I said there's really no room for a fan though, unless it's under the light itself eating up part of the footprint, which I don't like... I would use the clip on but the damn oscillator drives me nuts. Do you know the brand or have a link for what you use for a clip on?

Sounds like you've got a good situation with FF working for you... I may have simply been making some other error that I did not see... it was my first op.

You just need to find a good pedestal fan. This one can be horizontally mounted if you want to, Im not sure how large the base is... yet. http://www.amazon.com/Lasko-52-Osci...4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1334387636&sr=1-4

My current fan situation isnt exactly what youd call... ergonomic. The stand is sitting on the ledge of one of my pots on the far left side of the tent, leaning against the wall of the hut. Its a 12" oscillating fan, and I have it set to not oscillate but the direction I have it set at is perfect. I make sure that the stand doesnt rub against the stump of my tree and that it doesnt interfere with the footprint at all. So far so good, but not very practical. Especially with my next set up. These pedastal fans will be critical to my next op.

I dont use an oscillating clip on. I wasnt aware there were any. I use a 6" air king which is rated at 190CFM of displacement on high. This fan is EXTREMELY flexible and adaptable to your fixture and placement of the fan. I dont own a badboy yet, but the grosite is a right pain in the ass to use it with. Looking at dimension specs for the badboy, it should be much easier to use than the grosite for this application. http://www.amazon.com/Air-King-9145...1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1334387981&sr=1-1

Try getting a graduated, scientific measuring device like a cylinder or beaker for measuring nutes, using separate ones for each nute.. or just make sure you rinse them REALLY well in between uses. My first grow I was using chem nutes and I was using FAR too much. When I first started to use FF on my second grow I was using far too little but I didnt have proper measuring tools. Now that I do, I havent had a problem.

EDIT: The plants at the far ends of my tent are REALLY soaking up the light. All of the light that hits the wall at the end of the fixture is being redirected right back onto it. Its possible that they are doing even better than the plants in the middle of my footprint. The only issue that could arise from this is heat "patches", but with adequate circulating air this should not be an issue.

infinitalus said:

those are looking pretty tasty. I had decent results with bag seed last time, it was a pretty hardy strain whatever it was. Really is a crap shoot though. I spent almost a week trying to pick two specific strains I wanted, and I finally narrowed it down to afghan kush and rocklock

My nugs are starting to dense up really nice, just hitting week 3. Gonna wait a few more days before I put pics up. I dont see any red hairs on mine yet, but the frosty effect is looking (and smelling) fantastic.

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those are both bomb ass strains youll be happy either way i would say the high from the 2 are very similar tho.

Sorry to bump and old thread. But reading through it I had to say "good F^^^ing job man!!!"

I am on my first grow now under T5's. I was living out in Cali when they first legalized MMJ and had a few buddies who got straight into growing. Hustler style, max output, artificial nutes.... hydro. Everything to push as much weight as possible. After I came home from the service most had gotten tired of the "bottled nute bizz" and switch to organic soil. I'm running Sub soil for my first grow. And aside from screw up that are 100% my own damn fault. I cant complain about it. I like the idea of it all being in the dirt and all you have to do is water and let the plant do her thang.

Sup Wyo... thanks for the good words. I wanted to do subcool's mix but didn't end up doing it... will start doing it eventually when I am better set up for mixing and have a good spot to leave it out during the warm season... but for now, for my new grow I've gone with the Earth Juice organics line, which I will bubble 24 hrs. before usage.

My soil mix is a combination of FFOF and hand-mixed Peat/Perlite/Worm Castings. I barely had enough and kept having to tap different resources to pull together all the mix I needed, so as a result I was able to sort of temper the containers too, with a richer mix at the bottom with more worm castings, and a bit more perlite in the top layer as well. Overall the absorpency is so much better than straight FFOF was. I think the peat really helps lighten things up, but the extra perlite definitely doesn't hurt either. I'm not going to use straight FFOF again... probably won't buy it again at all, just start mixing my own soilless mix for now, which will get me used to the idea for when I do attempt a full soil mix like subcool's

Here is the link to my new grow if you want to come follow along... I am about 2 weeks before 12/12 flip now.

https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-fluorescent-lighting/584032-closet-2-0-dialed-back.html

You can mix a small batch and "cook" it indoors on a heating pad in a tote style container.......

WyoGrow said:

You can mix a small batch and "cook" it indoors on a heating pad in a tote style container.......

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That's an idea. I also just thought, I could get a black barrel and set it up on my sun porch in the spring. That should catch plenty of heat...

Where there is a will there is a way. Don't be a dumbass like me though and put your plants in straight super soil.... you'll burn them, burn the roots and stunt your plants. You are supposed to cut it with regular soil. So a little batch will last you a few grows.

WyoGrow said:

Where there is a will there is a way. Don't be a dumbass like me though and put your plants in straight super soil.... you'll burn them, burn the roots and stunt your plants. You are supposed to cut it with regular soil. So a little batch will last you a few grows.

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If I do it I'm gonna try the layering method, where you put super soil as a bottom layer but then layer up to a soilless mix so that the plants can work their way into the supersoil at will. :0]

I kinda did that with my current grow, except just with a bottom layer rich in worm castings to delay veg. nutes as long as possible.

That's the idea.... I cut the bottom layer pretty heavy with perlite and vermiculite. The next layer I go 1/3 perlite, 1/3 pro-mix & 1/3 super soil. Then the top layer is just straight potting mix I am currently using for my seedlings & clones. Will let you know how it turns out. Just on my first couple tries with super soil.

Hey, how much did you end up with after harvest? Would be very interested