pH lockout in soil (FFOF)

-Growing indoors
-Watering when top two inches of soil is dry
-Started in Miracle grow moisture control, realized that was a mistake, transplanted to foxfarms ocean forest with some dolomite lime
-380 watts real LED over a 2x5' area
-2.5-3 weeks old

I had another thread going on the possibility of too much light and leaf septoria but I think that my problem is due to pH lockout. This posting is sort of a repost but I wanted to ensure that the title of the thread matched the problem so that others can reference it later and so that I can get the fastest most correct response.

I took some better pics, ignore the whitish glossy covering on the leaves it's just buildup from the magnesium sulfate/chelated iron foliar feeding I was giving them yesterday before I realized that Iron is most certainly available but it's NPK, Calmag, and S that are unavailable right now.

So too much water = too much released nutes from FFOF = possible toxicity in some nutrients and lockout in the rest due to low pH from excess available nutrients lowering the soils pH?

Looking at this pH availability chart is why I'm guessing that the problem isn't with iron but probably sulfur and magnesium as well as NPK.



I'm basing this pH off of one of those cheap light/moisture/pH things with the two probes. I actually watered with water of a pH of about 8 with ~230ppm Alkalinity, 50ppm Ca, and 15ppm Mg but I'm thinking it's the soil's pH that matters not what I watered with?


So what can I do now to correct the problem?

1. I added just over a table spoon per 3 gallon pot of fast acting lime (http://www.amazon.com/Encap-10612-12-Acting-Pounds-400-Square/dp/B00140ILX8/)

2. I've been foliar feeding with dynagrow foliage pro (will this help?)

3. So do I just stop watering until the soil is almost bone dry and then only water a little bit around the edges of the pot?

4. Can I put some powdered pH up in the soil or what? I did order some pH up in powder form. Or will that just raise the pH way too high once the moisture levels fall and the nutrients become less available (if drying out lowers pH)?

Or are they just going to slowly die? lol

Ummmm.....thats called nutrient burn. Its nowhere near lockout. You fried it. Ffof has enough to keep that sprout going green for months and you figured that the bottle of fertilizer is what grows your plant. Wrong. Grower talent grows your plant.

Stop feeding anything. Stop. Your destroying everything. The next time it needs water, flush it. Then flush it again at the next watering. In the mean time wash the foliage pro off the leaves with a spray bottle and stop foliar feeding like at all. Your not qualified. Maybe after a couple grows and when you have nutrients figured out. I have a dyna gro shirt. Its rad, i earned it. One day youll earn yours. Not today. Start reading threads where noobs like yourself fd up. Then see what they did. Then hopefully they carried on to make a real journal and you can give that a study. Your a smart kid. Your just over zealous. Nothing wrong with that besides that your not sitting on your hands right now which you should be. Stop doing anything and read the plant. When it comes around that is. Good luck.

I've only been giving it a light foliar feeding for one day. If that's nutrient burn then it's the FFOF that fried them since I had done nothing previously but water and they already looked like that.

I thought the tip burn might be nutrient burn before but the black spots on one plant (a sign of phosphorous deficiency) and the seedling which had the brown spots (looked like Ca deficiency) and the chlorosis made me think that the nutrients were locked out due to the low pH of the soil.

Will they grow out of it?

So next time the pot is dry just hose it down and trash all the runoff?

ShirkGoldbrick said:

I'm basing this pH off of one of those cheap light/moisture/pH things with the two probes.

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Those soil probes are extremely inaccurate. You need a ph pen for liquid. I use a cheap $7 one. (<<link). It comes with powder to mix with distilled water to make calibration liquid. I have premixed calibration liquid and the powder came out perfect. It's lasted about a year so far. I use 6-12 drops of storage liquid in the cap. I think this contributes to its stability and long life. I use two cheap pens and take the difference between the two. They're usually within .02 of each other.

If you want a good soil probe, get a $60 Control Wizard Accurate 8. I have one and like it a lot. When you have your soil and nutrients dialed in you don't need to obsess over soil ph. But, when changing things, I find it very useful to watch the *trend* of the soil's ph over time. (Poking 3/8" holes in the soil seems to be beneficial too.).

ShirkGoldbrick said:

4. Can I put some powdered pH up in the soil or what?

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If you need to raise your soil ph, you do it by cultivating about a tsp of dolomite lime into the top 1/2" of soil and water it in. It must be fine powder. Pellets take a long time. You can crush pellets into fine powder. For a 3 gal container you could do the 1tsp every watering for 3 waterings.

The problem is that it takes about 2 weeks for dolomite lime to have an effect. And, I don't believe this method gets it into the soil evenly.

A lot of people will disagree with this, but the proper way (IMO) to raise ph is hydrated lime. About 1/2-3/4 tsp in a gallon of water. Perhaps 2-3 times over a week. The ph of the water will be around 10-11. I've done it and it works. It's not desireable. Better to amend dolomite into the soil before planting. Or, to monitor your runoff and soil ph, and feed higher ph to hold the soil ph higher as you see it going down. But, if you find yourself in a *confirmed* acidic condition, hydrated lime gets the job done. It's not healthy to the plant even when done right. It's easy to use too much. Should never be confused with dolomite which isn't toxic to the plant and is dosed in units of tablespoons, not teaspoons.

I agree with the other poster that it looks like nute burn. FF has a reputation for being too hot.

K.I.S.S.
FFOF is a strong soil. You are adding to it?
The only thing I add to my FFOF is some soil less mix.
... and the only reason I add that is because FFOF is too strong for some young plants.
Next time you want to start seeds, use plastic cups, and mix FFOF with B'cuzz, or ProMix, at the 1:1 ratio. then just water it.

I hope your current little ones can pull through, but looking at them photos, they might be done for. Better luck next time.

Well I never added anything to the soil, it put them in that state on its own, I had thought I might have a pH lockout so I'd given them a few foliar feedings. Today I put them in red solo cups with a 60-30 vermiculite/perlite mix and then ~1/2 of the FFOF on top. I'll just keep them watered with pH adjusted water and see if and how they all pull through. I'd just like to see at least one do well so I can decide if it's worth it or not to try that strain again.