PH Problem?

timmy78

Member
Hey fellas, first time here and I'm wondering if my plants are having a PH problem, higher leaves are curling under or twisting. I'm using Sunshine #4 Soil which I'm told prevents burn and using organic nutrients. Plants are about 4 weeks old so I've used about 1/4 of what's recommended on the chart. I bought a cheap PH tester and will likely buy one that's more accurate/expensive but the top soil showed about 7.0 and the runoff about 6.0, again who knows if that's accurate. The leaves look very green and plant is still growing, no spotting whatsoever.

So I guess my question is wiith the nutes and soil I'm using is it still possible to have a PH issue? Thanks guys.
 

timmy78

Member
I suppose I should add that I'm using a 600W MH about 22" away from canopy and watering with distilled. Oscillating fan blowing lightly across plants about 4-5 feet away. Any input is appreciated.
 

Shadeslay

Active Member
Leaf curl/cupping & leaf margin rolling-signs of Plant Moisture Stress


Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> “Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!”, or, “My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?” Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the “solution” the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I’ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.

1. Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. A hard, crispy feel to the leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy leaf. When you have a high concentration of salts in solution (in the root medium) compared to the salinity levels found in the plant’s tissue, water is actually drawn out of the plant across the root gradient in order to fix the ppm imbalance. IOW, this is a natural, osmotic response that serves to equalize salinity levels on both sides of the root’s epidermal gradient. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of plant food. Too much plant food can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips, which then creates another set of problems. Note - as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem.

2. High Heat - the plant is losing water via it’s leaves faster than what can be replaced by the root system. The leaf responds by leaf margin cupping or rolling up or down (most times up) in order to conserve moisture. A good example is reflected by the appearance of broad-bladed turf grass on a hot summer day, high noon, with low soil moisture levels - the leaf blade will roll upward/inward with the grass taking on a dull, greyish-green appearance. Upon sunrise when moisture levels have returned to normal, the leaf blade will be flat. Lower the heat and concentrate on developing a large, robust root system by practicing sound plant culture. An efficient and effective root system will go a long way to prevent heat induced leaf dessication and leaf margin curling. One short episode of high heat is enough to permanently disable or destroy leaf tissue and cause a general decline in the leaves affected, which often occurs to leaves found at the top of the plant. The damaged leaf (usually) does not fully recover, no matter what you do. Bummer in the summer. One can only look to new growth for indications that the problem has been corrected.

3. High Light - yes, it’s true, you can give our faves too much light. Cannabis does not receive full sun from sunrise to sunset in its natural state. It is shaded or given reduced light levels because of adjacent plant material, cloudy conditions, rain, dust, twilight periods in the morning and late afternoon, and light intensity changes caused by a change in the seasons. Too much light mainly serves to bleach out and destroy chlorophyll as opposed to causing leaf cupping, but it often goes hand-in-hand with high heat for indoor growers. Again, back off on the light and concentrate on developing/maintaining an efficient and robust root system.

4. Overwatering - for those doing soil, this practice only serves to weaken the root system by depriving the roots of proper gas exchange. IOW, the roots are not getting enough oxygen which creates an anerobic condition inducing root rot and root decline with the end result showing up as leaf stress, stunted growth, and in severe cases, death. <gasp!> Overwatering creates a perfect environment for damp-off disease, at, or below the soil line. Alot of times folks think the plant is not getting enough plant food (which it can't under such adverse conditions), they add more nutes for a "curative", and just add insult to injury.

5. Underwatering - not only is the plant now stressed due to a low supply of adequate moisture, but carbohydrate production has been greatly compromised (screwed up). Step up the watering frequency, and if need be, organic growers may need to water from the bottom up until moisture levels reach a norm throughout the medium. If the pot feels light to the lift - it&#8217;s time to water. Don&#8217;t wait until the soil pulls away from the sides of the pot or leaves droop before you water. And of course, leach once in a while to get rid of excess salts.

All of the above issues relate to a plant's internal cell turgor or cell water pressure. If water pressure within the plant's stem and leaf cells are positive, the plant will look strong and stocky with flat leaves that are cool to the touch due to good transpiration from the leaf surface. By the same token, if the water pressure is not up to par, whereby water is being extracted from the plant and not replenished like it should be.... the leaves and/or stems will droop.

Copy/paste, credit goes to unoit from grasscity.


Edit: if you have a water ph test kit you can test the run off from your soil just to make sure your ph meter is close.
 

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing that. Good find. +1.

@ Timmy. I'd bookmark this thread. Sounds like you used the Ph meter correctly and you researched the soil (although I've never heard of soil that prevents nute burn). I would re-examine your lighting and watering habits. At one month old your plant should be hearty and should be able to take some damage. Keep it in veg till she recovers.
 

timmy78

Member
Thanks for the info and replies guys. What I'm thinking now is that there was heat damage to the plants. It's only on the higher leaves and now that I've moved my light from about 12 inches (I know way too close) to about 26 inches away, the new growth seems fine. The leaves that were affected are very papery, shiny, dark green, some twisted, some curled down and one that is just about hanging there limp. I understand the affected leaves won't recover so should I expect a weak yield or will my grow possibly still be okay? The leaves that were affected were the set that grew right after the fan leaves. Anyone ever have heat stress and still do okay?
 

Shadeslay

Active Member
It's hard to tell the extent of the damage with out pics, but unless it was very severe I wouldn't expect you too lose to much yield. As the root system develops a little more you should be able to move the light closer.
 

timmy78

Member
Thanks guys, really appreciate the replies. Anyone have any problems with heat stress early in the development of their plants and how it affected yield?
 

*BUDS

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys, really appreciate the replies. Anyone have any problems with heat stress early in the development of their plants and how it affected yield?
Early they can recover after youve raised the light but sounds too hot/humid in there to get any decent weight. Try to get temps to 75-80 and 40-50%rh, eg cooltube over your light exhausted out of the area surrounding grow space,ducted blower/ exhaust for the grow room, dehumidifier.
 
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