PICO's DIY Thread - Advise, Ideas and Technology - NO PANEL REPS!

[MrFlux]

Congrats on your vero's arriving. I think Digikey has better shipping rates worldwide.

Testing with the batteries should be safe. A 100% safe way is to attach a voltmeter and shine a bright light on the Vero. The Vero is then used 'in reverse' (like a solar cell) and should generate some voltage.

 

[algrow12]

Smoky I tried that with a 19v power supply it didn't work.No light at all. I tested ohms I bought the plugs that are used and twisted the red and black together then tested at the soldering points. Also you said you where going to get the 100k pot it works great thanks for all your input. They will get warm so I hope you got a good heat sink. I got a 4.6" X 12" and it gets warm to the touch after being on for 4 hours. That's with the pot set to 63k. That's about 1.52a . Thanks to everyone on there input it was very much appreciated.

 

[smokey the cat]

A 100% safe way is to attach a voltmeter and shine a bright light on the Vero. The Vero is then used 'in reverse' (like a solar cell) and should generate some voltage.

Of course - thanks mate, I've read that before but had no hope of remembering. Bloody brilliant way of testing. In nice spring morning light its showing around 1600mV, so looks all good.

Just looking at it I think the design should be relatively static-proof compared to a typical emitter on a 20mm star - the back, resin surface and bezel shouldn't conduct, while the solder pads are protected by being recessed some way below the bezel. It's bloody clever tech - all around. The molex connection is a thing of beauty.


Algrow - you little ripper. Good on ya for getting your gear up and running. No wonder I couldn't get any illumination with 9v. Didn't wanna try anything hotter without a sink. The one I've got showing up might be a bit smaller than yours, but I'll have two 120mm PC fans pulling air across it. P

 

[algrow12]

I think it will only take one fan Smokey, but from the sound of your box you may need to drive them harder. Ive had mine on for 3 days now and to me there brighter then the 70w hps I had in there. The temps are way down now it was about 89f now its 69f. Im thinking about turning up the lights a little. I have one 4000k and one 3500k. I went with a little more blue to try to keep the stretch down.Yes I am a ripe lol but mine are up and running.

 

[algrow12]

This is what the 70w hps could do so I will see what the veros can do

 

[smokey the cat]

Sheeeit, that's enormous for 70W - that'll be a great comparison. I'm replacing 3x36W PLL bulbs which achieve about 6 inches of penetration so I'm bloody stoked to be going LED. I think I've gone too red with 3000k+3500k - might need to add a third Vero in CW or NW to control stretch.

As for the heatsink fans - they're the cabinet exhaust. I'm hanging the sink directly in front of them - hopefully they'll pull enough air across it to keep things under control but I really wont know till I try.

 

[smokey the cat]

Quick question about driving this stuff - I'm looking to stick a fuse and MOV in front of my drivers. I need to build a wee AC distribution box anyway and I'd rather include a few dollars of parts.


I'm just a bit unsure what I need because of the massive inrush current:

Inrush current: COLD START 55A(t =270us measured at 50%I ) at 230VAC
Typical AC: 0.4A @ 230VAC

For the fuse I'm thinking a 2A fastblow - should be enough headroom to run 4 of these drivers and shouldn't be effected by the cold start.
For the MOV I'm not too sure... I'll be getting a 275V part at least. Should I go 2500mA, 4500mA or 6500mA?

The 55A@230V inrush scares the piss out of me - even though it's only for a few micro seconds. I look at the MOV ratings and the lowest should be fine... if it survives the inrush. Worst case would involve having to go back to the shop to grab higher rated parts, so I know it's not critical.

Any advice here on picking this stuff correctly the first time?

 

[SupraSPL]

I put 1A ATC fuses in series on the LED string of each driver. They are not fast blow but better than nothing (which is what I usually do). It can be done very cheaply with female slide connectors and heat shrink tubing. As far as the varistor goes, hopefully you can educate us on that one it is over my head. I believe some drivers have various protections built in and I like to run DIY Led builds on GFCI circuits just in case.

 

[NewGrower2011]

Quick question about driving this stuff - I'm looking to stick a fuse and MOV in front of my drivers. I need to build a wee AC distribution box anyway and I'd rather include a few dollars of parts.

Okay for those still learning... a MOV is again? Not a QuickTime movie right?

 

[smokey the cat]

GFCI seems a good idea too Supra.



MOV is the the main component in a surge protection board. I picked this up from Rrog's long panel build thread on icy-mag - seems really simple and effective.

A Metal Oxide Varistor should be installed across live and neutral close to the fuse on the AC side of the driver - it's open until it encounters a spike above it's rating. Too much high V and it'll blow, closing the circuit - much faster than a fuse can. Once the MOV's blown the much slower fuse will follow.


http://www.electroschematics.com/5224/ <<-- nice diagram and correct jargon.

When they pop they do tend to blow apart, so locate appropriately. And install close to the fuse on the AC side so the surge doesn't travel up the circuit.

In a LED circuit I'm not sure if they will protect LEDs per se as the LEDs work fast. Might help protect the drivers from all but lightning strike.

 

[lax123]

Hi,
what do you Need to protect from what exactly?

For General safety, i dont know its Name in english, but in my Country there is in like every flat or house some sort of Special short circuit protection thingy it detects abnormalities in current an BOOM lights go out do you know what im talkin about? dont u have such thingies in the us? its some Kind of fuse, but not exactly called fuse at least here. I wonder if u got that one, will u Need anything else, fuse wise

edit ah lol its called RCD or GFCI just as u mentioned...isnt that common Standard?

 

[smokey the cat]

I have no idea if they're common. I had to google GFCI to find out what they were, lol. Where I live atm we have old fashioned wire fuses.

The Wiki page on them seemed to imply they were for safety only where the current is passing to ground. Still useful, but with limitations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device#Limitations

A residual-current circuit breaker cannot remove all risk of electric shock or fire. In particular, an RCD alone will not detect overload conditions, phase to neutral short circuits or phase-to-phase short circuits (see three phase electric power). Over-current protection (fuses or circuit breakers) must be provided. Circuit breakers that combine the functions of an RCD with overcurrent protection respond to both types of fault. These are known as RCBOs, and are available in 2, 3 and 4 pole configurations. RCBOs will typically have separate circuits for detecting current imbalance and for overload current but will have a common interrupting mechanism.

An RCD will help to protect against electric shock where current flows through a person from a phase (live / line / hot) to earth. It cannot protect against electric shock where current flows through a person from phase to neutral or phase to phase, for example where a finger touches both live and neutral contacts in a light fitting; a device can not differentiate between current flow through an intended load from flow through a person.

 

[lax123]

yea thats what u have ur regular fuses for...id think
Is there actually anything that would protect one from complete stupidity?

 

[smokey the cat]

I wish I knew where to get easy to follow good safety instructions and guidelines.

I am a walking example of the Dunning-Kruger effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect When I wanted to string together some light sockets for my first CFL build I found it impossible to google really obvious things like a basic safe circuit diagram for multiple light sockets.

I think a lot of this stuff is kept somewhat difficult to find and figure out as ideally professionals should be the ones handling AC power. If it's too noobie friendly too many noobs will make boo-boos.

Having had the odd 230V jolt over my time it's ok to work with this stuff, it's not too dangerous per se. Unless the current somehow goes over your heart - such as if your hand touches an active line while your foot or other hand is grounded. High V drivers will be more risky than low V.

I get a bit nervous about fire risk though as I'm growing in a cupboard. Thats why I'm adding fuse+MOV

 

[lax123]

hmm,
you wanna do vero + cc Driver, right? why not just Keep the Drivers away from your work area?
Im a pretty scary Person lol and i blew up quite some capacitors in my face building stuff (because a i didnt know Tantal isnt unlike ceramic and has a polarity), i mean i build my 340W Panel with 10 CC Drivers just with the Drivers at a distance from the actual Panel and i feel pretty ok.
What id recommend is using double pole Switches on ac side....

 

[NewGrower2011]

Having a chuckle remembering the AC/DC electronics lab that was part of 'shop' back in high school days... We had a big ass 2x4 near the AC workstations...

Guess what that was for? #1 safety tool...

 

[lax123]

...Double pole Switches and General robustness (sry dont know the english term) -> pressure releases on the wires (so that when u pull on the wire there is another holder preventing stress to the actual Connection) , not too thin wire, right sized blank copper on the wire, solid connectors and stuff like that. I think things like those r most important rearding safety.

 

[PICOGRAV]

My two Vero arrived today from Newark - but there was a problem. Everything was boxed properly, but one of the emitters was just chucked between two foam sheets - no antistatic packaging at all.
I guess I can let you all know how sensitive to static gremlins these things are.

As I'm using a freight forwarder I'm actually paying more for postage than for the Vero themselves. If it's bad I'll just have to lump it and order another. Still cheaper then getting them locally - the local distributor adds 600-700% markup ontop of US pricing.

My question for experienced LED gurus: is there a fast easy method to test these?

Wondering if I can I chuck one or two 9V battery across the terminals or something - thinking 9-18V it might be enough juice to get a glow from a 30V part. Else I'll need to wait till I can get these AC drivers half sorted and organise some sort of heatsink to test with as my ebay one isn't here yet.

I just don't wanna release the magic smoke! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_smoke

One of mine was packed the same way, it's anti-static foam...

For the tests...
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/702193-bridgelux-vero-29-led-test.html

The video shows it all.

 

[PICOGRAV]

Smoky I tried that with a 19v power supply it didn't work.No light at all. I tested ohms I bought the plugs that are used and twisted the red and black together then tested at the soldering points. Also you said you where going to get the 100k pot it works great thanks for all your input. They will get warm so I hope you got a good heat sink. I got a 4.6" X 12" and it gets warm to the touch after being on for 4 hours. That's with the pot set to 63k. That's about 1.52a . Thanks to everyone on there input it was very much appreciated.

You need about 28~30 volts before you break the barrier and can get a current flow.

 

[smokey the cat]

Thanks Pico, good to hear from someone with the stuff. I sure wasn't expecting just foam, so good to hear it's all OK.

Picked up a bunch of components today and have enough stuff to start getting this build organised. Will probably tape to the heatsink like you did for testing.

You're an inspiration champ - post up some pics of your grow.