Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

tcoupemn12 · Aug 26, 2009

where did you get that stuff?

Uncle Ben · Aug 26, 2009

ronaldino said:
Like I said before, runoff was 5.5, water in was 6.4

Click to expand...

If the runoff is accurate, then yes 5.5 is too acidic. Why? Is it a peat moss based mix without an added buffer? Most potting soils land around 6.5 by design.

Then why are there charts like the one I attached that show the availability of most essential macro and micro nutrients to be in the range of 6&6.5.

Click to expand...

Cause they were originally designed for corn, about 3 decades ago. If you don't want to take my word for it that cannabis is pH tolerant regarding nutrient uptake, then do what you're doing.

As you can see from the chart, Iron is mostly un-available at a ph of 7.5, and that's exactly the symptoms my plants were showing me, iron deficiency.

Click to expand...

I thought you said your soil's pH was 5.5 based on the runoff? Where are you getting this 7.5 value?

And what were those symptoms and where are they located?

Not really following you here, could you please elaborate.

Click to expand...

Plants get their nutrition requirements met based on the uptake of salts. I don't know how much clearer I can get. IOW, what is the NPK and micro values of your teas?

UB

Katatawnic · Aug 26, 2009

Uncle Ben said:
You'll have to do a search. Regarding the best read on botany, it's hard to beat Mel Franks books and they are cannabis focused. I have his 82 Grower's guide. Without question, he is a master gardener in all respects.

Thank you, UB! I knew I could do a simple search, but was wondering what you'd recommend.

I'll check out this author/book ASAP; really want to brush up on botany basics.

Again, lime's affect is alkaline. Are you trying to raise the pH, because that is what you're doing.

[....]

No sir, lime has an alkaline affect. Dolomite is moderate in its affect and quicklime (hydrated) is radical. All will buffer the pH up, the former is a carbonate the latter a hydroxide, not sulfates.

I knew something felt weird when I posted my reply about lime bringing down the pH! I read lime, my mind registered lemon juice, and that's all she wrote. :lol:

Here I make sure I don't offer any advice unless I know what I'm saying isn't hype or even completely wrong, but I screwed up on that one. :oops:

Sorry for that, guys! :mrgreen:

ronaldino · Aug 26, 2009

uncleBen said:
If the runoff is accurate, then yes 5.5 is too acidic. Why? Is it a peat moss based mix without an added buffer? Most potting soils land around 6.5 by design.

I used a mix of Roots Organic Soil http://aurorainnovations.com/soil.html
And yes the first two ingredients are Coco Fiber and Peat Moss. I cut each bag with about 1/3 bag of Light Warrior
http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_soils3.html

What sort of "buffer,"

uncleBen said:
I thought you said your soil's pH was 5.5 based on the runoff? Where are you getting this 7.5 value?

I'll go over this again. I used two testers. One pH probe to test the soil, (see image1). And a pH pen (image2) to test the water.

The soil probe gave me an average reading of 7.5 in every container. I even tested the soil that was leftover in one of the bags and it read 7.5.
Now the pH pen which I use to measure water told me the water I was putting IN was 6.4 and the water coming OUT was 5.5.
Make sense???

uncleBen said:
Plants get their nutrition requirements met based on the uptake of salts. I don't know how much clearer I can get. IOW, what is the NPK and micro values of your teas?

NPK= 3.5-3.3-1... but it's on the photo of the Bokashi Bag

tcoupemn12 said:
where did you get that stuff?

They sell it at almost every hydro store where I live.

I did clearly notice an insane increase in new growth after I watered it in the first time. Next time though I'm going to wait til the plants are larger with bigger root masses b/c I think introducing them so early scorched my leaves a bit. The microbes help aid in nutrient transport. Basically they more or less supercharge their uptake of available nutrients. My plants may have not been ready for it when I introduced them so next time I'll wait til they've been settled in their larger pots possibly just before flower.

This company is pretty young and issues with their labeling has kept them off a lot of shelves except for in the nor-cal area but Bokashi is a pretty commonly known type of beneficial compost. I'd heard great results from multiple people who've used it and I was in a good place to try some new stuff.

Bokashi

All in all, over the course of the past week and a half, since I first noticed what I noticed, my plants have been improving tremendously. New growth is flattening out and maintaining a more even shade of green. Older larger fan leaves look only slightly gnarly which won't change but they're functioning and new growth is promising.

The whole soil pH balance thing is still confusing me but I could have one... or two bogus testers.

vapourman · Aug 27, 2009

alright there mate ive got the same problem leaves are lookin dropped my plants are slightly smaller but av a good amount of foliage im using aflood and drain system plants are 2 wks into flowerin how often should i be floodin the system

Uncle Ben · Aug 27, 2009

ronaldino said:
I'll go over this again. I used two testers. One pH probe to test the soil, (see image1). And a pH pen (image2) to test the water.

The soil probe gave me an average reading of 7.5 in every container. I even tested the soil that was leftover in one of the bags and it read 7.5.
Now the pH pen which I use to measure water told me the water I was putting IN was 6.4 and the water coming OUT was 5.5.
Make sense???

No. I would trust the runoff, just make sure it is latent, meaning you've been tipping the pot for a while and you're testing the very last drops out of the drainholes.

NPK= 3.5-3.3-1... but it's on the photo of the Bokashi Bag

They sell it at almost every hydro store where I live.

A little low in the K department, but that's a fairly balanced food.

All in all, over the course of the past week and a half, since I first noticed what I noticed, my plants have been improving tremendously. New growth is flattening out and maintaining a more even shade of green. Older larger fan leaves look only slightly gnarly which won't change but they're functioning and new growth is promising.

The whole soil pH balance thing is still confusing me but I could have one... or two bogus testers.

I don't trust soil testers so I don't use them. To properly measure soil pH use de-ionized water in any proportion to the soil sample (it contains no ions so volume is moot), put soil and water into a clean jar, shake, and when it settles stick yo probe in. Calibrate your pH pen with both solutions (4.0 and 7.01) before testing.

Katatawnic, we all have our share of brain farts, hah! I now call them "senior moments"....sounds better.

ronaldino · Aug 27, 2009

Uncle Ben said:
A little low in the K department, but that's a fairly balanced food.

It's not really meant to be used as a complete fertilizer, just for introducing beneficial microbes. Use it in place of regular feeding schedule once or twice in late veg/pre-flower times to boost the root system. I may start a grow journal for my next cycle and track the results more closely.

Uncle Ben said:
I don't trust soil testers so I don't use them. To properly measure soil pH use de-ionized water in any proportion to the soil sample (it contains no ions so volume is moot), put soil and water into a clean jar, shake, and when it settles stick yo probe in. Calibrate your pH pen with both solutions (4.0 and 7.01) before testing.

Thanks so much for this nice discussion. I'll definitely heed some of this advice. I think I've lost faith in these soil testers myself. Even though we fundamentally might disagree on a couple points, I really appreciate your honesty & no-nonsense attitude. Good luck to you!

Uncle Ben · Aug 28, 2009

Enjoy it to, and good luck to you!

Speaking of organics, I just planted a Merlot grapevine as a replacement to a dead Syrah and as a backfill drench I used a witches brew consisting of a mychorrhizial product called MycoApply, 3/4 tsp./gallon, Medina Soil Activator, Medina Hasta Gro (humates, microbes, 6-12-6 NPK) and Superthrive. We'll see. A row of Merlot vines I put in using the MycoApply as a backfill drench are probably the healthiest I've ever seen and that's after I found them half dead and white, tangled up in this awful mess still in the packing bags, 95F heat! Took 'em for dead but put them in anyway this spring. Whether or not the phenomenal growth and health can be attributed solely to the MycoApply, I doubt it.

UB

garciavega · Aug 28, 2009

needs pics to reference back to some of us are to medicated to read and dislexic but you know your stuff thanks for the help

Katatawnic · Aug 28, 2009

Seems like you were able to read this thread, else you wouldn't be able to say whether or not he knows his stuff. :lol:

hostile · Sep 1, 2009

UB, please help my plants have a severe issue that has me stumped. All of the leaves are starting to completly die. They seem to be dying back to the stem but the stems are still green.

Uncle Ben · Sep 1, 2009

hostile said:
UB, please help my plants have a severe issue that has me stumped. All of the leaves are starting to completly die. They seem to be dying back to the stem but the stems are still green.

Tell me what your day to day activities are and then I might have a stab at it.

hostile · Sep 1, 2009

Uncle Ben said:
Tell me what your day to day activities are and then I might have a stab at it.

UB, water every 2-3 days, ph never above 6.5, ppm averages about 800.

My room temp has been around 95 degrees with a few days above 100.

I have gave them nothing but straight water for the last few feedings.

I left for 3 days came back and my pots were still wet. Im thinking I have a root issue.

one more thing my water temp was reaching the 90's also so I started to fill my container half way then filling it the rest of the way before watering to keep the temp down. All the leaves along the buds have died all the way to the bud.

Please help I dont want to lose this crop.

Uncle Ben · Sep 3, 2009

hostile said:
UB, water every 2-3 days, ph never above 6.5, ppm averages about 800.

My room temp has been around 95 degrees with a few days above 100.

I have gave them nothing but straight water for the last few feedings.

I left for 3 days came back and my pots were still wet. Im thinking I have a root issue.

one more thing my water temp was reaching the 90's also so I started to fill my container half way then filling it the rest of the way before watering to keep the temp down. All the leaves along the buds have died all the way to the bud.

Please help I dont want to lose this crop.

Pot still wet? Yep, it's a root issue. Not enough roots left to wick moisture out of the soil and the loss of leaves just exacerbates the problem (your "wicking" transpiration unit is gone). Pop a plant out and take a look at the rootball. If the roots are bad, sorry to bring you the bad news but there is no hope for a recovery.

Water only when the pot feels light to the lift, but, do not allow the soil to get to the point to where the plant looks stressed i.e. droopy leaves.

Good luck

hostile · Sep 3, 2009

Uncle Ben said:
Pot still wet? Yep, it's a root issue. Not enough roots left to wick moisture out of the soil and the loss of leaves just exacerbates the problem (your "wicking" transpiration unit is gone). Pop a plant out and take a look at the rootball. If the roots are bad, sorry to bring you the bad news but there is no hope for a recovery.

Water only when the pot feels light to the lift, but, do not allow the soil to get to the point to where the plant looks stressed i.e. droopy leaves.

Good luck

UB, I did pull one and the roots extended all the way to the outside of the soil although not thick they really dont look any different for any other plants I have done. I agree there is an issue do you think not letting my water sit for 12-24hr period could also have something to do with this? I also checked my run off my ph 6.53 ec 2100 and ppm 1200. I have been giving them straight water for about 3 feedings now. I appreciate your imput. Hos

Ps: the pots only atay wet for 2-3 days and I never water until they are light never droopy just light.

Uncle Ben · Sep 4, 2009

hostile said:
UB, I did pull one and the roots extended all the way to the outside of the soil although not thick they really dont look any different for any other plants I have done.

Do they look like photos #8 & 10 in this thread? https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
If not, then that still may be your issue. The leaves are not being supported for some reason - insufficient water uptake, abuse of high P foods, insect issues, etc. Could be multiple things, one or more.

I agree there is an issue do you think not letting my water sit for 12-24hr period could also have something to do with this?

No. What is your water source and why are you letting it sit around? Ya gotta ask yourself as you go thru life, "is this a feeling, or is this a fact." Enough of the philosophy.

I also checked my run off my ph 6.53 ec 2100 and ppm 1200. I have been giving them straight water for about 3 feedings now. I appreciate your imput. Hos

And what were you giving them before?

Ps: the pots only atay wet for 2-3 days and I never water until they are light never droopy just light.

You know long my pots stay "wet". For about 8 hours, and that's in a 3 or 5 gallon pot. When they are ramping up, they require a liter twice a day. I have the abundant leaf mass to wick off alot of soil moisture. Side bennie is it produces alot of bud too.

Tio Bendejo

hostile · Sep 4, 2009

Uncle Ben said:
Do they look like photos #8 & 10 in this thread? https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
If not, then that still may be your issue. The leaves are not being supported for some reason - insufficient water uptake, abuse of high P foods, insect issues, etc. Could be multiple things, one or more.

No. What is your water source and why are you letting it sit around? Ya gotta ask yourself as you go thru life, "is this a feeling, or is this a fact." Enough of the philosophy.

And what were you giving them before?

You know long my pots stay "wet". For about 8 hours, and that's in a 3 or 5 gallon pot. When they are ramping up, they require a liter twice a day. I have the abundant leaf mass to wick off alot of soil moisture. Side bennie is it produces alot of bud too.

Tio Bendejo

My roots are not quite as thick as #10 but I am also using 10 gal pots these plants are 5 1/2 feet tall and about 8ft around.

Also I was told and read in the growers bible you let your water sit 12-24 hours to evaporate chlorine and other crap out.

before straight water they were getting around 800-1000 ppms 6.5ph

no bugs or mold issues period.

I will shake one of the pots out tonight to see what the main root ball looks like.

I appreciate your time and help.

Hos

Uncle Ben · Sep 5, 2009

hostile said:
My roots are not quite as thick as #10 but I am also using 10 gal pots these plants are 5 1/2 feet tall and about 8ft around.

Also I was told and read in the growers bible you let your water sit 12-24 hours to evaporate chlorine and other crap out.

I never have and was at the start of the water distribution system where chlorine is at its highest levels.

10 gallon is a huge pot unless you have the foliage and a massive root system to require its use. When you pop a plant out, not only look at the color and structure of its root system, but smell the soil. It should smell sweet, not rancid. Also, by this time that plant should be rootbound as reflected by spin-out. If not, downsize to a 3 - 5 gallon pot next time. I have a suspicion that in your case "less is more" regarding pot size. I think you're trying too hard and providing exactly the opposite of what you're needing to achieve regarding plant health.

before straight water they were getting around 800-1000 ppms 6.5ph

Of what? What's the NPK value?

I will shake one of the pots out tonight to see what the main root ball looks like.

I appreciate your time and help.

Hos

My pleasure,
Ben

eyeco · Sep 9, 2009

Hi every one and thaks for what looks like a really cool site!.

Ok here is the prob. This is my first eva grow ( and my first time in a forum! strange hoe the to go togeather!.)

I am growing Big Budda Blue Cheese and Ressin seeds Bubblegum lavender cross.

I started the seeds in jiffy plugs ( small peat filled bags dont know if you use them in the states ( i from the uk) did ten seeds 9 germed and within 24 hours i had small shoots! i used rhitzotonic from canna at 4ml per liter in spray form in the propy and roots flew out of the lil buggers temp 24. ( by the way i can not recomend ritzotonic enough its amazing), all went well as you can see by the pics at end of post after only 4 days the roots where bursting out of the sides of the net bag the jiffy plugs are in, So i potted thm in to pint cups, And then made the normal noob mistakes, over watered and over fed, the long and the short is i have repoted in to 7.5 liter pots reducced feed to 1/4 streangth and got a proper watering plan ( every 3/4 days seems good) But thr plants have piled on so much root mass and leaf but no streach at all! plants are 3.5 weeks old with really chunky stems roots thick as a pencil lead coming out the bottom of potts ( new thick and white v healthy) but no vertical growth to match v short stocky plants compered to others i have seen on this site if anyone can help i will be very greatfull. (Just want to know if i shud start again from scratch.)

Ok Here the skinny.
Growing in Canna Coco
CoCo A+b Neuts 2ml per liter now 1/4
Ritzotonic 4ml/liter
Canazyime 2.5/liter

Started under 125w cfl 24 hours a day for 2 weeks then 400w wide spec hps at 1 meter from top of plants 24 hours.

Temps:Room 22'
:under lights 24-27 degs
Ph: 6.5 in the medium and 6 in my neuts.

In uk we tend to use Cf than ppm and mine about 1.6/1.9

i have 1 extractor 2 fans.

In the pics you can see the damage my over feeding and water stress has done but think i fixed that but shud i just star again?.
opps i cant post pics as it asking for a url and my pics not posted. Sorry for wasting your time!!!.

Good look with all your ladys!!. Eyeco

Katatawnic · Sep 9, 2009

eyeco said:
But thr plants have piled on so much root mass and leaf but no streach at all! plants are 3.5 weeks old with really chunky stems roots thick as a pencil lead coming out the bottom of potts ( new thick and white v healthy) but no vertical growth to match v short stocky plants compered to others i have seen on this site if anyone can help i will be very greatfull. (Just want to know if i shud start again from scratch.)

Do you have any idea how many people would be extremely envious of your problem? :lol:

Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Attachments

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member