Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

Uncle Ben said:

What did you do to induce such a change? Sounds like the typical bloom food drill to me.

Good luck,
UB

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NO major changes at all , i might of went from 1tsp of bloom food to 2tsp, (after the light change) but that is still less then 50% of recommended dose. I never go by the bottle for feeding
I had not yet even lowered the N. (i never really lower it much anyway)

Very good air flow , consistent temps.
The "problem" has been there through 3 grows and 4or 5 different strains but is never consistent. Yes it has happened twice at the beginning of bloom but it has also happened twice in veg? (only 1 grow has made it through veg with no probs until beginning of bloom)
i have changed soil mix, water, light, and tinkered with the ph a lil. i even added extra micorizzal to the soil. (i know i didnt spell it right)
The only thing that has "stayed the same" through all this mess has been the food (earthjuice)
i just now changed the food to humboldt organics but its only been a couple of days.
Has it been the food this whole fuckin last 4 years UB?
Before these last years of probs , i just used MG mix (or any "fluffy mix w/nutes" thats cheap) and a lil bit of blood and bone meal in the mix. I have done it this way several times with good results.
The only reason i switched to liquid organic food is because i kinda wanted to know what i was feeding my soil, plus i wanted to steer away from the chems in MG (merely a preference)
?????
need anymore info just ask.
Thanks for the quick response UB!

wb

wyteboi said:

NO major changes at all ,
wb

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Here's your problem - EARTH JUICE BLOOM 0 - 3 - 1. No nitrogen. You can't expect a decent yield if you deprive the plant of sufficient N to maintain leaves. They just sold you crap. I'm not sure why you would stop including blood meal or bone meal. That is some of my main additives to soil.

And just as an aside, based on this ideologically driven propaganda, I wouldn't touch this product with a ten foot pole. "No hidden NPK boosting synthetics No artificial additives, colors, or vitamins No added chlorine or formaldehyde."

If those idiots can prove to me that plant food manufacturers such as Peters or Plant Products, or Schultz, etc. add chlorine or formaldehyde, I'll kiss their rosy red label. The organic movement is all a big lie.

Lesson learned - you chose hype over common sense. Go back to your old program that was bringing you success, and shit can the bottled foods.

Uncle Ben said:

Here's your problem - EARTH JUICE BLOOM 0 - 3 - 1. No nitrogen. You can't expect a decent yield if you deprive the plant of sufficient N to maintain leaves. They just sold you crap. I'm not sure why you would stop including blood meal or bone meal. That is some of my main additives to soil.

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no i would never give my girls more of one single food without compensating with the others. There is no way i would use the bloom by itself. Like i said i did not even reduce the N going into that prob.
I have years of book knowledge and years of hands on but i would never claim to be an "expert" or anything close.
The main reason i dont even claim to be "good" is because i have never had to deal with major problems like this one. and if i cant correct a problem then i am not good.

Uncle Ben said:

If those idiots can prove to me that plant food manufacturers such as Peters or Plant Products, or Schultz, etc. add chlorine or formaldehyde, I'll kiss their rosy red label. The organic movement is all a big lie.

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i would have to agree and kiss their lil label too if they claimed that shit. I am not into a "movement" of any kind, i started with organics (blood an bone) so i just wanted to stick to what i knew.

Uncle Ben said:

Lesson learned - you chose hype over common sense. Go back to your old program that was bringing you success, and shit can the bottled foods.

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I wish it was that easy UB. If i thought the shit was toxic to plants i would have never touched it. I didnt read no outragous claims before i bought it, i just walked into the local "hydro store" and asked the lady for a liquid food for dirt. I knew that i would be growing all kinds of strains so i wanted a liquid so i could regulate the food a lil easier.
I could just switch to hydro and easily get rid of probs but i would much rather stick to dirt and just figure out what happened.
that way in the future i will know whats good and bad.
The ONLY reason i chose organic food is because its the closest thing to blood or bone meal. If i was into the "hype" i would be using botnicare or advanced nutes that do make outragous claims.
Like you always say, worry about health of whole plant not just buds!
and thats where i am at. i also am not "against" anything at all, including "chems" . I am open to anything and always will be, i just wanted to kinda let u know where i stand.
Thanks again UB ! always a help

wb

wyteboi said:

no i would never give my girls more of one single food without compensating with the others. There is no way i would use the bloom by itself. Like i said i did not even reduce the N going into that prob.

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Still does not tell me what you used regarding final NPK values. What was the source of N, how much, how often?

Sure there wasn't a pest problem, mites perhaps?

Could be a slippery slope too. Something goes wrong, you try to second guess it and "correct", correction doesn't work or not given enough time, you try something else only to find problem worsens.........

Uncle Ben said:

Still does not tell me what you used regarding final NPK values. What was the source of N, how much, how often?

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not too sure how to calculate "final" but this is the npk of what i use: Grow =2-1-1 Bloom=0-3-1, K=0-0-10, always use those 3 for 2 waterings then 1 pure watering. 1TB grow, 1tsp BL, 1/2 tsp K
I add a catalyst once every 1 to 2 weeks, .03-.01-.10 1tsp
I also add micro-nutes every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. 1 tsp
also add microbes to mix before planting.
only thing i change in bloom is uping the bloom to 2tsp (if i make it to 1 1/2 TB of grow then i will drop it back down to 1TB after a couple weeks of flowering.

Uncle Ben said:

Sure there wasn't a pest problem, mites perhaps?

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i dont know if i would call it a problem but yes i have always had spider mites. I keep them "under control" to where there may be some white spots from them eating but i dont let them web up.
i spray with neem every couple weeks.
Im not sure if u seen those pics of mine but its way beyond a single def. its definatly locked out ??
I am stumped .
Thanks for all the help UB!

wyteboi said:

not too sure how to calculate "final" but this is the npk of what i use: Grow =2-1-1 Bloom=0-3-1, K=0-0-10, always use those 3 for 2 waterings then 1 pure watering. 1TB grow, 1tsp BL, 1/2 tsp K
I add a catalyst once every 1 to 2 weeks, .03-.01-.10 1tsp
I also add micro-nutes every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. 1 tsp
also add microbes to mix before planting.
only thing i change in bloom is uping the bloom to 2tsp (if i make it to 1 1/2 TB of grow then i will drop it back down to 1TB after a couple weeks of flowering.

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Sounds like too much K to me, which induces a lockout of Ca, Mg, and N.

Sorry, but it seems to me that you've allowed yourself to fall into the cannabis nute abyss.

Uncle Ben said:

Sounds like too much K to me, which induces a lockout of Ca, Mg, and N.

Sorry, but it seems to me that you've allowed yourself to fall into the cannabis nute abyss.

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Thank you very much for your input UB!
i was kinda wonderin about the K right when i started typing my last post.
the K does seem a lil too high for my diet.
Well my new food/food schedule should help me alot. the guys at humboldt break down the huge difference between a "base food" and a "food supplement" just as you have in your hundreds of posts.
It all goes back to giving your plant what it NEEDS and not what you THINK it wants.
So now my new question is do you think adding extra microbes is a good idea? or will this benificial bacteria "build up" on its own? my question is geared towards all soils, Pro mix, MG, Shultz, ect...
also does it even matter whether you use "organic food" or chems in soil? or is it all the same just one is soluble and one is not?
Thanks AGAIN UB!

Where would someone go to start learning about medical growing? Book? dvd? I know it will take many years to become a good grower and a lot of practice. Any good suggestions?

wyteboi said:

So now my new question is do you think adding extra microbes is a good idea? or will this benificial bacteria "build up" on its own?

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Use rainwater, it has all the microbes you need. Problem is, nobody and that includes me, has any way of knowing what's really in our mix. I know I have plenty of microbes to work with because I add some compost to my mix and I am playing with a broad spectrum myco additive out in the field. Don't see any real value, yet, to be honest with you.

also does it even matter whether you use "organic food" or chems in soil?

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No, it doesn't matter. The plant requires CHEMICALS, soluble salts, for nutrition, for root uptake. Whether it gets that in the case of a synthetic salt or via microbial action on blood or bone meal or guano is immaterial. The point is to give your plants a constant supply of salts and this is where the value of organics comes in for me, I like the slow release thingie and then use fertilizers for tweaks. It's a comprehensive approach, not a either/or. You can do the same with slow release encapsulated foods, and I do. I plant a wide variety of plant material on my farm, I'm talking fruit, nut, landscape, etc. and I ALWAYS put down a handful of a 18-5-12 with micros that lasts up to 12 months. Used the same thing for outdoor grown pot.

I don't know how many cannabis gardens I've seen that are screwed up because the fertilizer NPK values were wacked out. If you guys continue to buy such products, like a 3-5-10, then expect to have screwed up plants. Think of cannabis as a blooming foliage plant, it requires alot of N from start to finish.

Myself excluded, I bet you can't find a grower here that is able to retain most of his lower fan leaves until harvest.

UB

well thanks to you UB I am in the 4th week of flower and have only lost the first little ones (3 in total) which I believe is normal?

So glad I found your threads, your advice has been spot on!

riddleme said:

well thanks to you UB I am in the 4th week of flower and have only lost the first little ones (3 in total) which I believe is normal?

So glad I found your threads, your advice has been spot on!

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Way to go! You're gonna lose some, it's when you lose alot that's not normal.

Keep 'em green,
UB

Uncle Ben said:

Myself excluded, I bet you can't find a grower here that is able to retain most of his lower fan leaves until harvest.

UB

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Yes you are right. It seems to be the "norm" around here to let fan leaves die and turn yellow.
Being that i have had plenty of success in the past, I knew that on a healthy plant , you dont lose any leaves.
So i came to this thread in desperate need of help, and you reminded me to get my fuckin head out of the bottle and read the plant not the label!
I have never been the one to jump on the bandwagon , but after 2 pages of talkin to you , you helped me to realize that i was doing just that, I jumped right on the wagon with all 10 bottles of food and was just reading labels just like the rest.
READ your plants folks NOT the label.

Thanks UB!

wb

wyteboi said:

Yes you are right. It seems to be the "norm" around here to let fan leaves die and turn yellow.
Being that i have had plenty of success in the past, I knew that on a healthy plant , you dont lose any leaves.
So i came to this thread in desperate need of help, and you reminded me to get my fuckin head out of the bottle and read the plant not the label!
I have never been the one to jump on the bandwagon , but after 2 pages of talkin to you , you helped me to realize that i was doing just that, I jumped right on the wagon with all 10 bottles of food and was just reading labels just like the rest.
READ your plants folks NOT the label.

Thanks UB!

wb

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You're welcome. Like I just said in another thread, I have never seen a community that allows itself to be manipulated to such an extreme by product resellers than the cannabis community.

Good luck,
UB

"Read your plants, not the label" -- words to live by!

Question for UB or anyone else who cares to answer:

What, if anything, would be wrong with putting some Osmocote 14/14/14 in the pot, watering properly, supplementing if needed and exercising patience?

That would cost under 20 bucks. No lockout, no burn....

I'm thinking of re-packaging the stuff and selling strain specific nutrients for 100 bucks a pop. (not really)

DocBud said:

Question for UB or anyone else who cares to answer:

What, if anything, would be wrong with putting some Osmocote 14/14/14 in the pot, watering properly, supplementing if needed and exercising patience?

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Nothing. I use such a product on all my plants.

Ok, glad to find this thread. Hope I am on topic as I went back about 10 pages to review. Dieing fan leafs in flower subject. I use Advance nut. bloom and grow. I added 50% of suggested bud blood from advance Nuts. (first week flower only) and noticed fan leafs die within a week. Stopped using bud blood adv. nuts... and fan leafs stay alive till week 5 ish. Must be the nuts killing em with lack of N? I was thinking of adding peruvian gauno (10-10-2) as an ammendment a couple time during flower to see if it helps? You have any suggestions on the nuts? Wondering is maybe going to the Peruvian guano by itself might do the trick without the adv. nut. bloom in flower? Input please Id like to hear from the experienced?

Uncle Ben said:

Nothing. I use such a product on all my plants.

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Cool.

So the 14.14.14 has nothing but NPK in it. No micronutrients, etc.

If I used such a product, what would you recommend as a supplement for all the micro's?

I grow in perlite not soil.

Osmocote also makes a product that is 15/9/12 that has all the micro's.

I'm sick and tired of buying 5 friggin' products and measuring and mixing. I'm looking to grow MJ like I grow vegetables in the garden...large, green, tasty and healty. (except for the perlite)

Relaxed said:

Ok, glad to find this thread. Hope I am on topic as I went back about 10 pages to review. Dieing fan leafs in flower subject. I use Advance nut. bloom and grow. I added 50% of suggested bud blood from advance Nuts. (first week flower only) and noticed fan leafs die within a week. Stopped using bud blood adv. nuts... and fan leafs stay alive till week 5 ish. Must be the nuts killing em with lack of N? I was thinking of adding peruvian gauno (10-10-2) as an ammendment a couple time during flower to see if it helps? You have any suggestions on the nuts? Wondering is maybe going to the Peruvian guano by itself might do the trick without the adv. nut. bloom in flower? Input please Id like to hear from the experienced?

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Im no expert, but I would say the high amount of Potassium in the Bud Blood is more the culprit, than the lack of nitrogen in it.

Heres a good site to keep bookmarked. It says too much K affects nitrogen. You can thank UB for making this site known around here

http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Oh and fuck AN for pushing shitty ass products on unsuspecting customers.

Smart move on not using the Bud Blood anymore. Feel free to use veg nutes every now and then during flowering to keep your plant healthy. I used mine for the first two weeks of flowering, and my plants didn't stretch out of control, nor did it impede flowering in any way. Ill even likely give them another shot of it around week 4-5 to keep them healthy until harvest.

Heres a good thread from Fdd2blk that discusses veg nutes during flowering:

https://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/24703-its-all-bullsh-t.html

Dave's got all of you covered.

Cannabis specific bloom foods WILL reduce your yields as they contain insufficient N to maintain foliage. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself. Fellas, search my posts please..... I will ignore redundant and a questions which have already been addressed.

Good luck,
UB