Progressive Party **Official Thread**

[Fogdog]

It's not a flaw in MY argument, though. What you're suggesting is that sociologists and professors...people that study this for a living are wrong, and Fogdog from rollitup is right. I know you like to play "expert" here on RIU, but I will defer to the actual experts on this.


In talking with researchers and looking at the studies on this, I found that it is possible to reduce people’s racial anxiety and prejudices. And the canvassing idea was regarded as very promising. But, researchers cautioned, the process of reducing people’s racism will take time and, crucially, empathy.

This is the direct opposite of the kind of culture the internet has fostered — typically focused on calling out racists and shaming them in public. This doesn’t work. And as much as it might seem like a lost cause to understand the perspectives of people who may qualify as racist, understanding where they come from is a needed step to being able to speak to them in a way that will help reduce the racial biases they hold.

“Telling people they’re racist, sexist, and xenophobic is going to get you exactly nowhere,” said Alana Conner, executive director of Stanford University’s Social Psychological Answers to Real-World Questions Center. “It’s such a threatening message. One of the things we know from social psychology is when people feel threatened, they can’t change, they can’t listen.”

https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/11/15/13595508/racism-trump-research-study

Go ahead, reach out to @Flaming Pie , soothe her and reduce her racial anxiety and prejudices. Get her to admit that she had the wrong world view all along.

You miss my point altogether. I'm saying these people can't be changed unless they realize on their own the flaws in logic that lead them to demonize others and then use that belief to justify actions that put an entire group into second class status. Perhaps one, maybe two but not the 53% of white americans who lean towards racist beliefs or the 35% who are outright racist or bigots.

The only way to end racism in the US is

Suppress racists
Educate children to not be racist
Continue the above until racists die out.

I'm not reaching out when as Alana Conner says, I'm “Telling people they’re racist, sexist, and xenophobic" which is "going to get me nowhere" with them. What I'm doing is telling them they are idiots and my reason is to shut them down. I'm not trying to "get anywhere" with them. Racists and racist speech has no place anywhere.

 

[UncleBuck]

It's not a flaw in MY argument, though. What you're suggesting is that sociologists and professors...people that study this for a living are wrong, and Fogdog from rollitup is right. I know you like to play "expert" here on RIU, but I will defer to the actual experts on this.


In talking with researchers and looking at the studies on this, I found that it is possible to reduce people’s racial anxiety and prejudices. And the canvassing idea was regarded as very promising. But, researchers cautioned, the process of reducing people’s racism will take time and, crucially, empathy.

This is the direct opposite of the kind of culture the internet has fostered — typically focused on calling out racists and shaming them in public. This doesn’t work. And as much as it might seem like a lost cause to understand the perspectives of people who may qualify as racist, understanding where they come from is a needed step to being able to speak to them in a way that will help reduce the racial biases they hold.

“Telling people they’re racist, sexist, and xenophobic is going to get you exactly nowhere,” said Alana Conner, executive director of Stanford University’s Social Psychological Answers to Real-World Questions Center. “It’s such a threatening message. One of the things we know from social psychology is when people feel threatened, they can’t change, they can’t listen.”

https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/11/15/13595508/racism-trump-research-study

either you fix @Flaming Pie 's racism problem or shut the fuck up about how i berate that fat bitch.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Go ahead, reach out to @Flaming Pie , soothe her and reduce her racial anxiety and prejudices. Get her to admit that she had the wrong world view all along.

You miss my point altogether. I'm saying these people can't be changed unless they realize on their own the flaws in logic that lead them to demonize others and then use that belief to justify actions that put an entire group into second class status. Perhaps one, maybe two but not the 53% of white americans who lean towards racist beliefs or the 35% who are outright racist or bigots.

The only way to end racism in the US is

Suppress racists
Educate children to not be racist
Continue the above until racists die out.

I'm not reaching out when as Alana Conner says, I'm “Telling people they’re racist, sexist, and xenophobic" which is "going to get me nowhere" with them. What I'm doing is telling them they are idiots and my reason is to shut them down. I'm not trying to "get anywhere" with them. Racists and racist speech has no place anywhere.

either you fix @Flaming Pie 's racism problem or shut the fuck up about how i berate that fat bitch.

This is all fine and good, just understand that you are actually part of the problem, and drop the act that you give a shit about racism. Your little rants have more to do with "likes" and pats on the back from your club members than they do with trying to change anything.

Carry on....

 

[UncleBuck]

This is all fine and good, just understand that you are actually part of the problem, and drop the act that you give a shit about racism. Your little rants have more to do with "likes" and pats on the back from your club members than they do with trying to change anything.

Carry on....

funny how you have more of a problem with people calling out pie's racism than pie's racism.

 

[st0wandgrow]

funny how you have more of a problem with people calling out pie's racism than pie's racism.

Because I don’t call pie a fat, racist, cuck when she posts something objectionable you jump to that conclusion, when in reality I know that a response like that will only make matters worse....as I’ve already proven.

I have no need to puff my chest out here for a few atta-boys like you.

 

[dagwood45431]

Post the proof of this slander.

If you can't, you're just another liar who will say anything to win, truth or not.

Nope. Not going to do it. I attempted to engage you on men's rights (and later white rights). You obfuscated, refused to answer direct questions about your stance and then ran away. Out of frustration, I dropped you in my 'ignore' list for a while. I'm not interested in a return trip down that rabbit hole with you. You can use the search tool just as easily as I can if you'd like to check it out. It happened out in full view. I'm not sure why you're pretending you weren't there too.

 

[dagwood45431]

I don't invite people I have disagreements with to commit suicide.

Yeah, I meant that literally and thought there was a chance you would do it.

 

[dagwood45431]

You first. (implying I should kill myself)

Unlike you, I don't invite people I have disagreements with to commit suicide.

Er, yes. You just did. Look above. What is your problem? You do this all the time. You're a nut.

 

[dagwood45431]

Damn women how much do you really lie. Everyone has seen your post. We have even put the shits up in quotes.
I truly really honestly think you have a fucking mental problem. SEEK FUCKING HELP ASAP

I think this has been shot down before but does ttystikk == schuylaar?

They behave exactly the same in this regard.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I'm saying these people can't be changed unless they realize on their own the flaws in logic that lead them to demonize others and then use that belief to justify actions that put an entire group into second class status.

What tactic would you suppose is more likely to get racists to realize the flaws in logic that lead them to demonize others; stifling their free speech, getting them ostracized within their communities or in online social media, taking away their livelihood by notifying their employers of their beliefs, or actually listening to them, understanding how their unreasonable grievances were constructed and trying to find rational solutions and ways to combat those problems before they start?

This clip shows you what works. This guy befriended members of the KKK after they threatened his and his families life. He successfully changed the minds of dug in, entrenched racists who were already members of the KKK and got them to denounce their ignorant beliefs. This one man, through his actions did that;

Daryl Davis is another man who did the same;

Show me one single instance of success berating and abusing people with abhorrent beliefs has brought. It has never happened in history. It has only caused violence and cost innocent lives and served as kindle to the racism fire. In other words; it only makes things worse..

The only way to end racism in the US is

Suppress racists
Educate children to not be racist
Continue the above until racists die out.

Clarify what you mean by "suppress racists". What tactics does that encompass? How are you suggesting racists be suppressed? Because what you're doing now to "suppress racists" is only inflaming them and making the issue much worse, especially for the minorities facing the racism..

I agree with you about educating children to not be racist

I'm not reaching out when as Alana Conner says, I'm “Telling people they’re racist, sexist, and xenophobic" which is "going to get me nowhere" with them. What I'm doing is telling them they are idiots and my reason is to shut them down. I'm not trying to "get anywhere" with them. Racists and racist speech has no place anywhere.

Right. As the evidence shows, that doesn't work. You calling someone a racist does not "shut them down", it only encourages them to dig their heels in and disagree with you more adamantly. It has the complete opposite effect you say you're shooting for... So why do you insist on continuing a failed tactic that does not accomplish the goal you yourself claimed to strive for?

Like St0w said, you do it for the kudos, not for actual change

 

[UncleBuck]

I think this has been shot down before but does ttystikk == schuylaar?

They behave exactly the same in this regard.

they banged so naturally tty is excusing all of schuy's massively anti-semitic, bigoted, and racist posts.

 

[UncleBuck]

What tactic would you suppose is more likely to get racists to realize the flaws in logic that lead them to demonize others; stifling their free speech, getting them ostracized within their communities or in online social media, taking away their livelihood by notifying their employers of their beliefs, or actually listening to them, understanding how their unreasonable grievances were constructed and trying to find rational solutions and ways to combat those problems before they start?

This clip shows you what works. This guy befriended members of the KKK after they threatened his and his families life. He successfully changed the minds of dug in, entrenched racists who were already members of the KKK and got them to denounce their ignorant beliefs. This one man, through his actions did that;

Daryl Davis is another man who did the same;

Show me one single instance of success berating and abusing people with abhorrent beliefs has brought. It has never happened in history. It has only caused violence and cost innocent lives and served as kindle to the racism fire. In other words; it only makes things worse..


Clarify what you mean by "suppress racists". What tactics does that encompass? How are you suggesting racists be suppressed? Because what you're doing now to "suppress racists" is only inflaming them and making the issue much worse, especially for the minorities facing the racism..

I agree with you about educating children to not be racist

Right. As the evidence shows, that doesn't work. You calling someone a racist does not "shut them down", it only encourages them to dig their heels in and disagree with you more adamantly. It has the complete opposite effect you say you're shooting for... So why do you insist on continuing a failed tactic that does not accomplish the goal you yourself claimed to strive for?

Like St0w said, you do it for the kudos, not for actual change

if only weimar germany had listened to you and reasoned with the nazis instead of shutting them down before they could set the world on fire.

 

[Padawanbater2]

it raises real questions when you have more of a problem with me calling out that fat racist cunt than you do with her blatant unconstitutional racism.

You can "call out" anyone you want. We're simply saying that the reasons you state yourself for "calling out" these people ultimately leads to opposite outcomes. "Calling out" racists only intensifies racism. "Calling out" racists has never worked, not even one time, in ultimately suppressing or ending racism; only understanding why people are racist and addressing those factors, like income and wealth inequality and the systemic racism inherent in the war on drugs have helped suppress the factors that cause racism.

 

[Padawanbater2]

if only weimar germany had listened to you and reasoned with the nazis instead of shutting them down before they could set the world on fire.

Right, German Nazis holding all the political power are the same as a fringe group of American extremists who support NeoNazi beliefs..

False Equivalence if I ever saw one. You're trying to foster fear in order to garner support for your McCarthyistic aversion to your own political opponents because you can't beat them in the realm of ideas.

 

[UncleBuck]

You can "call out" anyone you want. We're simply saying that the reasons you state yourself for "calling out" these people ultimately leads to opposite outcomes. "Calling out" racists only intensifies racism. "Calling out" racists has never worked, not even one time, in ultimately suppressing or ending racism; only understanding why people are racist and addressing those factors, like income and wealth inequality and the systemic racism inherent in the war on drugs have helped suppress the factors that cause racism.

so if i have been doing it all wrong, why have you not been cupping the racists' balls and figuring out why they are so racist and fixing them the right way?

i want to see your method in action.

 

[UncleBuck]

German Nazis holding all the political power....a fringe group of American extremists who support NeoNazi beliefs..

19% of trump voters (and an embarrassing percentage of conservatives and whites) support neo-nazi white nationalist beliefs. that's a way better start than the nazi party had, and the nazis gained total control of power with a smaller percentage of the vote than trump got.

do not revise history you fucking child.

 

[Padawanbater2]

i want to see your method in action.

Let's see your "method" in action. How many racists have you stifled from speaking?

 

[Fogdog]

This is all fine and good, just understand that you are actually part of the problem, and drop the act that you give a shit about racism. Your little rants have more to do with "likes" and pats on the back from your club members than they do with trying to change anything.

Carry on....

What I'm proposing has proven to work elsewhere. I've never seen your idea of talking it out and empathizing with racists do much except give somebody already having doubts a way to work it out.

I don't believe that turning the other cheek will do anything other than get teeth busted on both sides of the mouth either.

As far as sociology and psychology are concerned, there are plenty of studies to show that racism is relatively unchanged and that racial bias are fairly constant regardless of age. We've pretty much avoided this subject for a long time and aren't showing any progress. For example,

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/americas-racism-problem-far-complicated-think

In the long term, Americans need to grapple with our history and how it continues to affect us today. Matthew Blackwell, Avidit Acharya and Maya Sen find that whites in areas with a high concentration of slavery are to this day more likely to espouse racially biased attitudes. Therefore, waiting for a mass opinion change may take decades (if it occurs at all). Similarly, waiting for old whites to die out won’t solve the problem, as these attitudes are equally prevalent among youth. Demographic change may lead to a more diverse nation, but this will take half a century, and white hegemony has a way of shifting to accommodate new realities.

I'm not willing to wait 50 more years until demographic partially solve this long term sickness in our country.

The only country I can point to where racism has effectively been curtailed and even there, not eliminated is Germany. They did not take the stance that talking it out would reduce hardened Nazi attitudes toward race. They confronted it and suppressed it, which makes more sense than coffee and doughnut get togethers that won't just happen.

Rather than preach to unbelievers like me, tell me where your ideas have been successful.

 

[tangerinegreen555]

only understanding why people are racist and addressing those factors, like income and wealth inequality and the systemic racism inherent in the war on drugs have helped suppress the factors that cause racism.

That's insanity.

So if I give a racist $50,000, he'll stop being racist?

Get the flying fuck out of here. Income and wealth inequality? Give me a break.

More like generations of family history. I've never ever met a 1st generation racist that I know of.

 

[travisw]

You can "call out" anyone you want. We're simply saying that the reasons you state yourself for "calling out" these people ultimately leads to opposite outcomes. "Calling out" racists only intensifies racism. "Calling out" racists has never worked, not even one time, in ultimately suppressing or ending racism; only understanding why people are racist and addressing those factors, like income and wealth inequality and the systemic racism inherent in the war on drugs have helped suppress the factors that cause racism.

Just a couple of points.

Can you not recognize the hypocrisy of dismissing anyone who agrees with Buck as being in the ball washers club, when you've clearly got you're own club? You're apparently speaking for them now. Fuck, you even said, "We're simply saying.

How are you suddenly the expert on racism when you been bearing the faggot thing into the ground for years? You've said it so much here, you've found alternative spellings for fucks sake.

Edited already, phaggot

Quote em, faggot

I never called Pinworm anything. That's a lie.
I honestly don't remember who it was I called a "fa*got" and told to move to Cuba because they were being a fa*got, and I was making the point that using words fa*got's like you pretend to be offended about don't make someone homophobic

Are you group mates, not calling you out because they've adapted your racism cure to address your homophobia?