Progressive Young Turks Think Ron Paul is Probably a better option then Obama

This isn't his plan for president, these are things he believes in but big difference(A few of them are actually a play on words more less)..Why do you think he can't be practical and realistic for some reason? You seem to think he would morph into godzilla and shoot lighting bolts from his eyes destroying society in a few months...Your the one who is not being practical, Dr Paul is the only practical candidate of any of them.

How about actually watch the video you posted there, Ron Paul says it would take 100 years to eliminate anti-trust laws...and have a free market where you could eliminate the minimum as well he has said this...100 years doesn't sound like eight..he is just having honest discussion and understands political philosophy. So thats his 100 year plan...hes what over 70 now?

deprave said:

Why do you think he can't be practical and realistic for some reason? You seem to think he would morph into godzilla and shoot lighting bolts from his eyes destroying society in a few months...

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Like I said, it depends who controls congress. If it's the democrats, Paul would probably be better than Obama. But if it's republicans, then yes, I think he would morph into godzilla and shoot lightening bolts from his eyes destroying society.

Your the one who is not being practical, Dr Paul is the only practical candidate of any of them.

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I see. "I know you are but what am I". Well done.

How about actually watch the video you posted there, Ron Paul says it would take 100 years to eliminate anti-trust laws...and have a free market where you could eliminate the minimum as well he has said this...100 years doesn't sound like eight..he is just having honest discussion and understands political philosophy.

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I'm perfectly happy with having anti-trust laws. I don't want him to have 8 years to chip away at the regulations that protect us from the wealthy. We need protection because without it they have all the power.

Sounds to me like you agree with Dr. Paul on everything actually..You are at a crossroads neo..



You an take the blue pill..the story ends..you wake up tommorow just like everyone else, believing liberty is anarchy, freedom is facism, and war is happiness. Back into the wire..
OR

You can take the red pill..and see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

deprave said:

Sounds to me like you agree with Dr. Paul on everything actually..You are at a crossroads neo..

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Then you are seriously mistaken. I think Austrian economic theory is a cruel joke and think anyone who believes that going on the gold standard is a solution to our problems does not really understand what he's talking about.

You an take the blue pull..the story ends..you wake up tommorow just like everyone else, believing liberty is anarchy, freedom is facism, and war is happiness.

OR

You can take the red pill..and see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

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I'll take 2 of both.

Dan Kone said:

I'll take 2 of both.

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I thought so...but there is only one choice...you must choose


View attachment 1935857

[video=youtube;arcJksDgCOU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arcJksDgCOU[/video]

Morpheus : Do you believe in fate, Neo? Neo : No.

Morpheus : Why?

Neo : Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my
own life.

Morpheus : I know..._exactly_ what you mean. Let me tell you why you're
here. You're here because you know something. What you know,
you can't explain. But you feel it. You've felt it your
entire life. That there's something _wrong_ with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there...like a splinter
in you're mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has
brought you to me. Do you _know_ what I'm talking about?

Neo : The Matrix?

Morpheus : Do you want to know...._what_ _it_ is....?
Morpheus : The Matrix is everywhere. It's all around us, even in this
very room. You can see it when you look out your window or
when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you
go to work, when you go to work, when you pay your taxes.
The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes,
to blind you from the truth.
Neo : What truth?
Morpheus : That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born
into bondage, born into a prison that you cannot smell or
taste or touch. A prison...for your mind....Unfortunatly,
no one can be..._told_ what the Matrix is...you have to see
it for yourself. Morpheus : This is your _last chance_. After this, there is no turning
back.....You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up
and belive...whatever you want to believe. You take the red
pill.....you stay in wonderland...and I show you just how
deep the rabbit hole goes.

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Dan Kone said:

That is a compelling argument. But that's risky and really dependent on what the next congress will be composed of. If we had a republican majority in both houses of congress it's frightening how much damage Ron Paul could do. But if we had a democratic congress, then I'd agree that we're probably better off with Paul than Obama.

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Republicans are mostly big government too. Their record suggests as much. Sure, sometimes they outsource to private business, but that's the exact kind of thing Paul would try to avoid. In the end there's a government supported or financed project either way. Neither side particularly likes what Paul has to say. They all have their own ideas of how to spend money.

Dan Kone said:

lol. Getting rid of the federal reserve will literally do NOTHING for income inequality. I'm not sure why Ron Paul supporters think they can just mash any words that sound good together and the final product will be a true statement. Pretty funny though.

Real tuff sell to try and convince me Ron Paul doesn't support deregulation of the financial industry. Not buying that at all.

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Fundamentally the Federal Reserve System allows the rich to get richer. New money always goes to the rich first (thanks to the Credit system we have in place) because they of course are best able to pay it back. In turn they buy up capital goods/services and raw materials at a lower cost than they would if they had to buy it with cash they had saved in a system not based on inflation and the creation of loans that can never be repaid with money that doesn't even exist (Fractional Reserve). Mathematically this is the reality and it is not debatable. The system will always implode. It is simply a built in reality that cannot be argued. That doesn't hold true for all systems necessarily though. The people who get this new money last are the poorest of the poor and they are the ones most affected by the increased cost of goods and services in an inflationary economy. It is, without debate, one of the most fundamental causes of the ever widening gap between the .1% and the rest of us.

Cronyism in government is all to common, everywhere, because of the huge dollars at stake, and there are even more dollars at stake to fight over hand and fist when a government can simply create more money out of nothing. It also leads to foolish spending and creation of foolish programs that often do more harm than good. Not always the case, but often the case. Quite simply, the players at the table realize there is more on the line if they just sit back. It is not possible to sit back on your savings in such an economy, you must be proactive, forever producing stuff to pay off loans that if not paid can cause sizable consequences. Big creditors can often close banks if they default because the money was never there in the first place and people lose everything they ever owned, often to the banks who take what they feel like they've earned as payment on whatever mortgage...

The Federal Reserve system is parasitic and causes so many problems at their core, that I cannot begin to describe the amount of issues I have thought about that it isn't a primary driver of behavior. This includes product development, consumerism and all kinds of other important issues that are usually examined through a lens that is distorted at the very very best (and often may as well not be discussed at all IMO because the argument is limited and the debate is framed in a way that makes the issue impossible to actually look at honestly). It's not just "Capitalism" as so many people decry.

We haven't had capitalism in a very long time I'm afraid.

You must free your mind..Neo..

"The United States is unusual among the industrial democracies in the rigidity of the system of ideological control - Indoctrination, we might say - exercised though the mass media" --Noam Chomsky

That system is our enemy...but when your around it and you look inside, what do you see? businessman, carpterners, lawyers..the very minds of the people we are trying to save, but until we do they are part of that system and that makes them our enemies..You have to understand, many are not willing to be unplugged and..many are so dependent that they will fight to protect it neo..



[video=youtube;vthdr96EDnE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vthdr96EDnE[/video]

OGEvilgenius said:

Republicans are mostly big government too. Their record suggests as much. Sure, sometimes they outsource to private business, but that's the exact kind of thing Paul would try to avoid. In the end there's a government supported or financed project either way. Neither side particularly likes what Paul has to say. They all have their own ideas of how to spend money.

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Republicans are big government EXCEPT when it comes to giving new ways for their donors to exploit the people. Then they are for deregulation. And that's what worries me. A bunch of republicans putting together laws that remove our safeguards with the support of the president. That's dangerous.

I also don't believe in randomly cutting off all government spending just for the sake of reducing government. I don't think we have a big government nor do I think the size of it needs to be reduced. If we are talking about cutting waste, then sure, I'm all for that. But not all government spending is waste. I don't want our social safety net cut just because conservatives think the smaller the government the better. No thank you.

OGEvilgenius said:

Fundamentally the Federal Reserve System allows the rich to get richer.

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I'm perfectly fine with Ron Paul's desire to make the federal reserve system more transparent. I'd even be ok with ending it in favor of a more public institution. What I'm not ok with is tying our currency with a scarce commodity. That's dumb and I'm not even sure enough gold exists to make that practical.

Ron Paul supporters seem to have the mentality that anything in government that is broken needs to be destroyed. I believe that most of those things need to be fixed, not eliminated.

Mathematically this is the reality and it is not debatable. The system will always implode.

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Well that's not true. It can be reformed so that doesn't happen without tying our money to the random fates of gold.

This whole attitude that if you disagree with Ron Paul you're some sort of mental slave incapable of original thought is getting really old. You'd all be doing yourselves a huge favor if you understood that it is possible that people who disagree with Ron Paul are capable of independent thought.

It's also incredibly ironic considering how most of you seem to defend every single thing Ron Paul has ever said or done. Being in 100% agreement with everything a politician has ever said or done doesn't suggest a lot of independent thought. So maybe some of you need to look in the mirror when implying that people who disagree with Ron Paul are not thinking for themselves.

Let me assure you. I fully understand what Ron Paul supports. I just happen to disagree with you when it comes to the effects those policies would have. It's not because I've been brainwashed by the democratic party or the media. I simply looked at the facts, and decided that's not what I believe in.

So enough with that nonsense already.

Dan Kone said:

He wants to eliminate the minimum wage correct? That reduces labor prices across the board. He supports the deregulation of our financial system. He supports free trade. Ron Paul supports eliminating anti-trust and monopoly laws.

Those things alone might wreck the middle class permanently. Like I said, the middle class only exists because of protectionism. It needs to be preserved. That means financial regulation, labor regulation, etc.

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not true the only thing a minimum wage does is increase inflation. Maybe the smaller business cant afford a another worker all they have is enough for is a 4$/h job. That will give someone a job until the business can fully bring him on.

RyanTheRhino said:

not true the only thing a minimum wage does is increase inflation. Maybe the smaller business cant afford a another worker all they have is enough for is a 4$/h job. That will give someone a job until the business can fully bring him on.

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yes, let's have a race to the bottom.

you can work full time and take home a whopping $8k a year.

that's the america i want to live in.

$8k a year cant even cover the rent in most places.

ideologues would do well to run some basic numbers to see the practicality of their rhetoric.

UncleBuck said:

yes, let's have a race to the bottom.

you can work full time and take home a whopping $8k a year.

that's the america i want to live in.

$8k a year cant even cover the rent in most places.

ideologues would do well to run some basic numbers to see the practicality of their rhetoric.

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with unemployment so high why cant someone just work for what they can make. That $8,000 is better than nothing. It would increase production and business would hire more people.

You cant even live of minimum wage anyway

UncleBuck said:

yes, let's have a race to the bottom.

you can work full time and take home a whopping $8k a year.

that's the america i want to live in.

$8k a year cant even cover the rent in most places.

ideologues would do well to run some basic numbers to see the practicality of their rhetoric.

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You would do well to listen to your own advice.

Maybe a person doesnt need rent or other things. Maybe they are a retiree.

The only thing a minimum wage guarantees is more tax income for the government and inflation as stated previously due to an increase in products and services to pay for the higher wage.

RyanTheRhino said:

not true the only thing a minimum wage does is increase inflation.

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Well actually it sets a minimum wage companies are legally allowed to pay employees too. So no, you're wrong.

Maybe the smaller business cant afford a another worker all they have is enough for is a 4$/h job. That will give someone a job until the business can fully bring him on.

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If they can't afford to pay a worker a living wage, they shouldn't be attempting to expand their business.

Listen to the logic.

When you get rid of minimum wage the company can now sell their products/services for cheaper because they have less labor costs. That $8,000 may not be able to buy anything now but getting rid of minimum wage would decrease inflation and that 8k would be more.

minimum wage does increase inflation that is a fact go look it up in a economics book.

We must get rid of minimum wage, otherwise how will we continue to pay CEO's what they so readily deserve?

RyanTheRhino said:

Listen to the logic.

When you get rid of minimum wage the company can now sell their products/services for cheaper because they have less labor costs. That $8,000 may not be able to buy anything now but getting rid of minimum wage would decrease inflation and that 8k would be more.

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There's a hole in that logic. The idea that the price of goods is just how much companies can afford to charge is false. If we got rid of the minimum wage making it cheaper for companies to produce goods, it's more likely that they'd just make a higher profit, not pass on all the savings to consumers.

I'd rather have inflation than have sweatshops. I'll pass.

Dan Kone said:

Ron Paul may very well be a doomsday scenario. And supporting complete deregulation is NOT supporting the 99%.

I agree with Ron Paul on most social issues, but his economic policies are frightening. If he ever got his way I really do think it would permanently destroy the American middle class. The middle class only exists because the protectionist regulations Ron Paul doesn't think we need.

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