Proof of the existence of an intelligent Creator and what His purpose of mankind is

rookie 420

Member
In the era and the countries you are reffering to (even presently), there was a sole ruler that had misinterpreted the text. With the influence of rulers and powers they possess it is easy to missuse religion in their favor. This misinterpretation obviously has a snowballing effect, some cultures have not learned the proper influences of religion as some cultures have. Churches have outreach programs, fundraisers for charitable orginizations, and provides a person with somewhere to go when no one will take them.
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
In the era and the countries you are reffering to (even presently), there was a sole ruler that had misinterpreted the text.
And where ever you go, people swear THEY have the right interpretation and all the others are wrong.

Occam's Razor solves that little dilemma quite efficiently.
 

rookie 420

Member
My only point was that Religion is not all bad, regardless if the text is fictional or factual, possitive things can be learned from it. Historians love to study religion because of its illustrious display of cultural differences, changes in rulers, and further understanding specific societies. I remember many fictional stories from my youth that had underlying values, some that I still use today.
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
My only point was that Religion is not all bad, regardless if the text is fictional or factual, possitive things can be learned from it. Historians love to study religion because of its illustrious display of cultural differences, changes in rulers, and further understanding specific societies. I remember many fictional stories from my youth that had underlying values, some that I still use today.
That I can totally agree with. You can learn things that will benefit you and others from all kinds of texts. Including religious ones.

But as long as they're in the religious context and not the literary, people use them for justification for all kinds of actions under the guise of being a good (insert religion here).

"Do unto others"... good shit.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"... bad shit.

:)
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
Religion has very little potential within its doctrines. There's nothing new in it at all.
Heh, and I can agree with that too! :)

All the good stuff can be found by common sense alone.

But for those lacking, a nudge in the right direction could help.

The problem is who is nudging, and what the motivation is.
 

rookie 420

Member
I am actually athiest myself, I just try to see the field from both sides. Many athiest, including myself, get caught up in religion bashing and forget the very few possitive aspects of religion. To truely be intellectually sound you must be willing to fairly weigh the pros and cons unbiased from your preference, this allows learning and understanding to be evident in all scenarios.
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
The crucial point: when anyone considers religion to be any more "true" than Aesop's fables, they cease to gain anything from the experience. It becomes a net loss, selling oneself to religion for the promise of a magical life after death.
 

rookie 420

Member
That is absolutely true. I'm not denying the existence of some reliquary figures, but I do totally dismiss any basis for literal fact in over 99% of the religious text that I have studied.
 

Sparky4u

Active Member
Athiests:
Do any believe in hauntings or even a metaphysical existence?

Define what a ghost is?

Where does it (they) reside and why? Please provide your scholarly well-boundaried scientific studies here...

Those who say "no" are not very well in tune with their surroundings; regardless of who or what they do or do not want to beleive(insert your chosen (non)religion here).

Your ears are so full of themselves, they cannot hear anything that is trying to be communicated to them.

Does a bear shit in the woods? Not if I dont see him do it...

Atheists dont beleive in anything but themselves; which makes life harder for the rest of us.

Men have twisted religions into a ball of shit, it is an attempt to define what cannot be accurately defined.

"Man" has created every word we currently use to associate all things we know, does this mean that this is all that exists?
If a distant planet in another galaxy has its own ppl and language indigenous like, but we are unaware of it, does it not exist?

Understand this, ANY words used will create potentially unintentional boundaries, thus beginning interpretational errors, and its all fucking downhill from there.

Religion helps people find appreciation for the fact they exist, and can be grateful for it, often providing a healthy structured life to billions of people.
Some take this measure to an extreme which isnt healthy or accurate. Balance of all things is key. Shitty people can have any name, and come from any religion, inacurate interpretations they define lead them down more selfish paths.

Now, who wants a non physical visit?
Of course, it wont actually exist if your an athiest?
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
I don't think any of us are saying we're 100 percent certain there is nothing out there.We're just saying none of the religious choices available currently are anything more than hooey.Speaking personally, if there is a god,(as he is defined by many mainstream faiths)who created the universe, then he is either not omnipotent,because he cannot end the suffering of his children he is supposed to love,or he is cruel, because he will not.(Paraphrasing Crackerjax there.) If he is not omnipotent,then he is not a god.If he is omnipotent, but unwilling to help his children,then he is uncaring or malicious and I wouldn't worship him anyway.

As for ghosts,there very well could be entities we call ghosts....but there is NO concrete,irrefutable evidence of their existence.And even if they do exist, it doesn't necessarily mean they're supernatural in nature.....they could be multidimensional beings,energy or electromagnetic fluctuations,a trick of the mind,or even the projection of an extremely powerful mind that has accidentally or deliberately found a way to do things "above normal"...though there is no irrefutable proof of any of that, either.

And the appreciation of existance really depends upon the individual you're referring to.Sure, life can be a beautiful thing, but it can be pretty fucking ugly,too. You need only to observe the natural processes of our own planet and its denizens to appreciate both sides of THAT coin...no faith necessary.:leaf:
Athiests:
Do any believe in hauntings or even a metaphysical existence?

Define what a ghost is?

Where does it (they) reside and why? Please provide your scholarly well-boundaried scientific studies here...

Those who say "no" are not very well in tune with their surroundings; regardless of who or what they do or do not want to beleive(insert your chosen (non)religion here).

Your ears are so full of themselves, they cannot hear anything that is trying to be communicated to them.

Does a bear shit in the woods? Not if I dont see him do it...

Atheists dont beleive in anything but themselves; which makes life harder for the rest of us.

Men have twisted religions into a ball of shit, it is an attempt to define what cannot be accurately defined.

"Man" has created every word we currently use to associate all things we know, does this mean that this is all that exists?
If a distant planet in another galaxy has its own ppl and language indigenous like, but we are unaware of it, does it not exist?

Understand this, ANY words used will create potentially unintentional boundaries, thus beginning interpretational errors, and its all fucking downhill from there.

Religion helps people find appreciation for the fact they exist, and can be grateful for it, often providing a healthy structured life to billions of people.
Some take this measure to an extreme which isnt healthy or accurate. Balance of all things is key. Shitty people can have any name, and come from any religion, inacurate interpretations they define lead them down more selfish paths.

Now, who wants a non physical visit?
Of course, it wont actually exist if your an athiest?
BOOOOOO!!!!!
Ghosts exist in the human mind. Nowhere else.
No irrefutable evidence of such.
Then why have they been recorded in both audio and video/camaera footage?
 

CrackerJax

New Member
So far no footage has ever been proven to be real.

The farthest I am willing to go is time ripples. In the end science will reveal most likely that that is the case here.

The vast majority is mind projection, which will appear COMPLETELY real to the observer. The rest just may be time echoes.

In all cases except mind projection, there has been no true interaction. the "image" is going through whatever paces it is doing, trapped in a time ripple. Is it really them? Uhhh, no ... it's more like recording. Mary tyler Moore isn't really in the TV, but show a TV to someone who has never seen or heard of one, and try telling them that she's not in there.
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
Then why have they been consistently recorded in both audio and video/camera footages?
That's quite the claim.

Back it up with samples. You could start a whole new branch of academia with verifiably true samples. Oddly enough it doesn't exist. Ghost hunting is television entertainment, rather than science.


On a side note, I was looking for the experiments where they can trigger ghost and abduction experiences and found this article on religious experiences via brain stimulation: http://discovermagazine.com/2006/dec/god-experiments/article_view?b_start:int=0&-C=
 

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
Define what a ghost is?

Where does it (they) reside and why? Please provide your scholarly well-boundaried scientific studies here...
Sure, and you provide the scientific definition of leprechaun.

Your ears are so full of themselves, they cannot hear anything that is trying to be communicated to them.
And some people's heads are so empty they'll fill it with any old nonsense.

Keep 'em coming.


Does a bear shit in the woods? Not if I dont see him do it...
Remember that when you step in it.
"Paranormal bear shit! On my shoes! Call the Enquirer!"


Atheists dont beleive in anything but themselves; which makes life harder for the rest of us.
Atheists don't believe in a theistic god.
Use a dictionary. Learn what words mean. It might make that hard life a little easier.

Some atheists believe in ghosts. Some believe vaccines turn your blood to acid. Not all athiests are realists.

The first half of your statement is just a lie, and the second half... that's just sad. If I don't automatically fall into line with your religious and supernatural beliefs, that makes your life hard. School must have been a bitch.

Men have twisted religions into a ball of shit, it is an attempt to define what cannot be accurately defined.
Religion = myth.
There. Saved you all that twisting.


"Man" has created every word we currently use to associate all things we know, does this mean that this is all that exists?
If a distant planet in another galaxy has its own ppl and language indigenous like, but we are unaware of it, does it not exist?
This argument is what they call a "straw man". You can go look that up too.
If we do not know another species exists, then our lack of said knowledge does not affect it's existence.
Our lack of knowledge of them doesn't give you carte blanche to then describe them in detail, their habits, biology, and favorite TV show.

If you want to convince someone that Ghosts and Gods are real then show proof of them. Claiming "We don't know everything!" has never proven the existence of anything.

Understand this, ANY words used will create potentially unintentional boundaries, thus beginning interpretational errors, and its all fucking downhill from there.
Categorization of concepts or words has no effect on whether the ghost of Aunt Martha hangs around throwing good china at the walls.
She is there, or she isn't.

Religion helps people find appreciation for the fact they exist, and can be grateful for it, often providing a healthy structured life to billions of people.
Some take this measure to an extreme which isnt healthy or accurate. Balance of all things is key. Shitty people can have any name, and come from any religion, inacurate interpretations they define lead them down more selfish paths.
And some people find appreciation for their lives in science, others in the observation of nature. I've never heard of anyone burned at the stake in the name of bird-watching though.
People have done bad things in the name of science, though there is nothing in science to justify those actions.
Scripture can provide you with all the justification for any good or bad action you want. You can quote mine it to meet any criteria. Genocide? Check. Murder? Check. Slavery? Check.

Now, who wants a non physical visit?
Of course, it wont actually exist if your an athiest?
Are you offering to haunt people?
Is this a free service or do you charge? Do the Ghostbusters know about you?
 
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