Dr.J20
Well-Known Member
Perhaps, yes.
finally, something we can agree on! i wish my like button were there though
PROOF that GOD Exists......
- Thread starter NetGuruINC
- Start date
finally, something we can agree on! i wish my like button were there though
Dr.J20
Well-Known Member
no, but if you're not a mechanic, aren't you kinda up shit creek looking under the hood?
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
No. You take it to a mechanic that has NOTHING to do with the situation. Tell the mechanic nothing. Not where you got the car, that you might buy it. Nothing. The mechanic will tell you the condition of the car, whether you like it or not. If you refute the claims of the 1st mechanic, take it to another, and another. Then collect the data. People do this all the time. So much so, businesses exist just to make lies LOOK like facts. When people buy a house, they have it inspected. When they buy a car, they research reliability, horsepower, room, Etc. People naturally want to collect information. It's how we survive. But when someone is led to believe that you should accept something before researching it, they lose.
The key is to find someone who could care less. Don't ask a preacher if god exists, ask a university or scientist. Don't ask a Ford dealer who makes the best trucks, ask a hauler, ya know?
Truck=America
Laurie=everywhere else.
Dr.J20
Well-Known Member
notice that first "if" though. "if" you refute the claims of the first mechanic; what if you don't? or what if you do and refute all of them for your town. then you can either average your data and say thats probably the best answer, or you can try to learn everything there is to know about machines. the sad reality is, you have more needs and desires than you have time to fully research and understand everything about those needs and desires. its an economic tradeoff based on transaction costs and garnered utility. so at some point you can fall into the trap of feeling like you've exhausted the research and the likeliest answer is your averaged research, but you didn't research widely enough, and so your answer is actually pretty far off.
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
Except that the data will align with a Yes or no. After the 3rd mechanic reports a blown transmission, it would be an emotional reaction, "OOOO, I really want this car." not a lack of research, that kills the inquiry. Then, even if you have doubts, a quick "Show me." The mechanic will present his evidence, quite like a hypothesis is presented, to show how he came to his conclusion. "I took it on the freeway. There is no 2nd or fourth gear. I returned to the shop. I tested the hydraulic systems and found a condition. Solenoid 2 is not responding. I tested the solenoid. It failed. You need a new solenoid and a fluid change to repair the transmission.
Not, "I thinks it's broken, boss."
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Laurie's a chick name.
Where soccer is football, a truck's a lorry. cn
Dr.J20
Well-Known Member
Right, so, unless you know what all of that means, and trust that he has calibrated his tools correctly etc. you're going to have to believe him. or you're going to have to believe the average of several of them. either way, unless you are, yourself, the master of this understanding, its gonna have to come down to a deferral and trust. What i've been driving at is the nature of epistemology. All we ever really get is a consensus of belief based on our best efforts. and logically speaking, this condition is proof by exhaustion, which is the least elegant of proofs and the most vulnerable to attack.
Dr.J20
Well-Known Member
Ok, and how do we verify who could care less? you mean to tell me there's no possible way a university professor or scientist might have a personal history which imbues him with some care one way or another on the matter of God? how would you be certain there isn't even some subconscious thing: the hauler was anally raped in the back of a ford and doesn't even realize his assessment of their trucks is being colored by this event. just an example
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I think I understand. in a different brand of truck he might have Dodged the ramming. cn
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
You guys are focusing on the imperfections of an arbitrary analogy. The answers you get or who you get them from are not important, it is the process used to get the answers which deserves scrutiny. We do not of course have time to personally confirm everything we are told, but we can examine the process even if we do not fully understand the subject. In the case of science we have a process which includes peer review and transparency.
lordjin
Well-Known Member
Wow, is this thread getting esoteric or what?
Doer
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think so. We must also, as you and I have discussed on other topics, make sure we don't blindly worship the peer review process either. When the time periods and record keeping doesn't agree with the new discoveries. When the previous claims have attracted too much money. When new thinking arises that negates the old entrenched thinking, peer review stalls, a bit, I imagine you will agree.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Yes, I have the same opinion as science, which is, Peer review is both necessary and insufficient. Science is wise as well as smart.
"Science, more succinctly the process of science, is the best idea humans have ever had. It is the way that we come to know the natural world we're part of. Our ability to observe and understand causes and effects in nature has led to our ability to feed billions, map the world, shape cities, forecast weather on Mars -- and to dream. We, like no species we know of, understand a little bit of what makes the Universe go 'round. Science is empowering like nothing else." - Bill Nye
"Science is the best thing humans beings have ever come up with. And if it isn’t, science will fix it."
— Bill Nye
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
"Religion/spirituality is the dumbest idea the human animal has ever come up with... and if it isn't, religion will fix that"
Chief Walkin Eagle
Well-Known Member
Might wanna get that spiritual symbol removed from your back then... tehe.
afrawfraw
Well-Known Member
*Facepalm*
Peer review. If you find a moronic mechanic, it will be proven so. Your "Scenario" leaves out the fact that he's unemployed, because his LORRY (Thanks CN) broke down because he wasn't being reasonable.
If you find a scientist who allows his beliefs to leak into his work, and it's been peer reviewed, they are labeled by the scientific community.. I think it's clergy. I'm not a scientist.
Dr.J20
Well-Known Member
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
The triforce tattoo on my back symbolizes the awesomeness of a video game that a group of human animals created with the help of science... the best one ever, besides final fantasy 7. Nothing spiritual associated with the symbol unless one presumes to persuade themselves otherwise.
Chief Walkin Eagle
Well-Known Member
If you say sooo...
Dr.J20
Well-Known Member
I highly disagree...while final fantasy 7 is a very good game, the legend of zelda cannot, in me estimation, be trumped.