Question about diluting nutes for ppm, feedcharts and additives

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Greenhorn_Greenthumb

Member
rkymtnman said:
yes to the the 2 you mentioned. as in, not needed.

and here's a cheaper beneficial bacteria to for you to check out:
Southern Ag Garden Friendly Fungicide. same strain as hydroguard, million times more concentrated.
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heh, how’d you know I was running Hydroguard

my mindset has pretty much been this up to this point...
main 3 and calmag are a given
The RapidStart is used for cloning and root growth, using it to give me that boost through the ever troublesome seeding stage for a novice
The Diamond Nectar (humics) is a crowd favorite and seemingly might effect the appropriate quantities of the other nutes via its cheating effect on uptake, chart may need to be adjusted more than just removing it if I would remove it. Likely keeper
The Floralicious+ (kelp and natural stuff) is another crowd favorite with tons of positive reviews. Likely keeper
The ArmorSi (silica) helps me in case my environmental conditions aren’t optimal as a novice, will hopefully cut out once I have faith in my ability to provide good conditions consistently
KoolBloom (pk booster) seems to have mixed opinions on its worth. On the fence leaning towards not needed down the road
FloraBlend (tea) pretty sure this is pointless, lack of overwhelming positive reports
FloraNectar (sugars) meh, probably a waste of money
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
You can buy anything in those fancy bottles of additives in dry form and mix it with water yourself for a fraction of the price, have better control of the dosage, and know exactly what you're feeding your plants. As @spek9 said learn basic plant nutrition and you'll know what the plant does with each different element. You should also look into nutrient antagonism which accounts for a significant amount of plants experiencing deficiencies. Also read all those labels for all those products and see what's in them.

Not a single product here cost me more than $15 a pound for dry water soluble powder. It's enough to make pallets of bottles with shiny labels. Just add water. I can mix things anyway I like without the need for any expert feed chart. Healthy plants start to finish. I only use the humic/fulvic in soil, I tried the potassium silicate a couple runs but stopped because I didn't see any benefit, and the potassium sulfate if I use it is only a couple times mid flower at low ppm's. But I pretty much replaced all those additives with a few products if I'm even inclined to use them. But when you have healthy lush plants I see no reason to keep adding anything.

Humic/fulvic



Potassium sulfate common ingredient in bloom additives.



Monopotassium phosphate another common ingredient in bloom additives.



Common source of silica in silica products. GH Armour SI = derived from potassium silicate, Botanicare Silica Blast = derived from potassium silicate, Advanced Nutrients Rhino Skin = derived from potassium silicate.

 
manfredo

manfredo

Well-Known Member
You could mix the main fertilizers yourself too, for that matter, and skip GH altogether!!

I may very well try & mix these things myself in the future, but my main goal was to get past the powdery mildew, which, as I said, cost me thousands, so I don't mind at all buying the stuff pre-mixed. The whole aero thing is an experiment for me...

And, I will keep using some sort of potassium silicate, and the Regalia and Venerate...I'll probably do away with most everything else, including the aero system and go back to organic super soil. Much easier IMO.

Now I do make my own super soil, but by the time everything is said and done, it costs as much as the expert series Flora, and I suspect the buds grown in super soil will be better, tastier, etc....But ask me in about 6 weeks.

I do know the GH is a fraction of the price of AN...Now that I thought was a huge rip off!
 
G

Greenhorn_Greenthumb

Member
xtsho said:
You can buy anything in those fancy bottles of additives in dry form and mix it with water yourself for a fraction of the price, have better control of the dosage, and know exactly what you're feeding your plants. As @spek9 said learn basic plant nutrition and you'll know what the plant does with each different element. You should also look into nutrient antagonism which accounts for a significant amount of plants experiencing deficiencies. Also read all those labels for all those products and see what's in them.

Not a single product here cost me more than $15 a pound for dry water soluble powder. It's enough to make pallets of bottles with shiny labels. Just add water. I can mix things anyway I like without the need for any expert feed chart. Healthy plants start to finish. I only use the humic/fulvic in soil, I tried the potassium silicate a couple runs but stopped because I didn't see any benefit, and the potassium sulfate if I use it is only a couple times mid flower at low ppm's. But I pretty much replaced all those additives with a few products if I'm even inclined to use them. But when you have healthy lush plants I see no reason to keep adding anything.
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solid tips, thanks
yeah I figured as I got more familiar with each additive and started to come to my own conclusions about which are worth it and which aren’t that my next step would be to source the active ingredients in each additive from some place without a fancy bottle that you end up paying too much for.

back to my original question though.....
let’s say I’m following my feed chart at 50% strength to achieve my desired ppm range, and by doing so I would naturally also be diluting the listed amount of FL+ to 50% suggested. everything is getting diluted to 50%...
But should I be doing that or would you knock down ingredients A,B, and C by 50% to get your ppm in range while still going 100% recommended strength with ingredients X, Y, and Z?
 
G

Greenhorn_Greenthumb

Member
manfredo said:
I do know the GH is a fraction of the price of AN...Now that I thought was a huge rip off!
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this has been a factor in my willingness to just go ahead and get all of these additives so that I could just follow the chart and give myself the best chances of success out of the gate to be honest.
its a lot easier to blow a few dollars on a bottle that you’re not sure if you really need it or not when you look at the prices of something like AN and realize that you can go ahead and get that bottle from GH and youre still not spending that much in comparison to other options
 
manfredo

manfredo

Well-Known Member
The only good thing about AN was their 100% money back guarantee. My very 1st indoor grow, me & my buddy ordered $1,000 worth of their crap, and got every penny refunded 3-4 months later...Not sure if they still have that guarantee!
 
G

Greenhorn_Greenthumb

Member
manfredo said:
The only good thing about AN was their 100% money back guarantee. My very 1st indoor grow, me & my buddy ordered $1,000 worth of their crap, and got every penny refunded 3-4 months later...Not sure if they still have that guarantee!
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dont they have some bottle that’s like $200 or something?
that shit better automate something for me for $200


edit: it’s Bud Factor X and it’s not $200 but it’s outrageously expensive for any quantity and goes well over 200 fast for bigger amounts. Also maybe discontinued?
 
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WintersBones

WintersBones

Well-Known Member
Greenhorn_Greenthumb said:
humics and kelp seem to be favorites if anyone is going to add additives, and silica if people are worried about either bud weight or environmental resistance

and correct me if I’m wrong but in the GH lineup Diamond Nectar is the big humi choice and Floralicious Plus is my kelp, right? I know FL+ is some thick nasty smelling natural shit
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That is my line of thinking, also being a novice myself i wanted yo go with something fairly common and well reviewed
manfredo said:
OK, I'm gonna disagree here a bit. I am using GH Flora expert series, for the first time ever I might add, and using it exactly as their chart recommends, in a 100 liter aero nutriculture system. The plants have thrived, with no tip burn. I am running the aero system right along side 13 plants grown in 7 gallon super soil buckets, and they all are thriving.

I also don't agree that all their add ons "do nothing". Sure they aren't necessary, but most of them, if not all of them, do have benefits. Some of them, like Armor Si, contains silica, which has been proven to make plants thrive and be better able to protect themselves from pests and pm. I am feeding it to ALL of my plants and have never had such thick branches and stems.

Now let me say also, I had powdery mildew my last 2 grows that I could not shake....So I started fresh, with new seeds, from ground zero. I'm in my 4th week of flower now, with no signs of pm of ANY deficiencies. They all look amazing actually!!

I look at the extras like taking a daily vitamin. Do you need it? No...But can it make you stronger & healthier? Hell yes!! And it's not like all these add-ons cost all that much in the big scheme of things. Sell one ounce and you have re-couped the cost!

The other extras I am using, Regalia and Venerate, also protect me from a variety of bugs, powdery mildew, and make the plants larger and produce more, so the extras aren't really costing me any more, they are making me money with larger harvests...which is why the majority of organic vegy and fruit farmers are using this stuff nowadays....and these products are organic and do NOT show up in testing.

And my 2 runs with powdery mildew cost me thousands of dollars, not to mention a boatload of time and labor, so a few dollars for protection is like a no brainer for me...now. A year ago I too might have said don't waste your money Now I say your a fool not to use them, once you get the basics down!!

But I'll also say that you do need to have your grow dialed in to see benefits from all these extras, so for a lot of people they are a waste of money.
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Great points, i would agree with that. You seem to have your system dialed in nicely and so you're able to maximize the benefits provided by the full spectrum of nutrients and supplements of the system. See I'm still learning so i think i would not be able to take full advantage yet, but i plan to slowly add as I need it/learn to use it.
 
manfredo

manfredo

Well-Known Member
And while I think I have my setup dialed in pretty well, I am still learning, and still experimenting....and relatively new to indoor growing...and that's why I joined this site, to learn more!!

I do agree that most of this stuff could be made, including base nutrients, a lot cheaper, but I am the first to admit I am not knowledgeable enough to make my own nutes just yet, although I'm sure it's just a matter of learning and more experimenting. But hell, I am getting old and you can't do everything yourself. Well you can but that's not my priority. If prices keep heading the way they are, I may be making more of my own stuff.

And I'm certain you can get by just fine without most of the add-ons....I did for years.

The big game changer for me that i have learned from this site is the use of a simple IPM. I am pretty sure without it I'd still be suffering from powdery mildew, and probably I'd be about ready to give up!
 
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