Returning to Our Roots

Returning to Our Roots By : TheBrutalTruth (2008-10-27 17:42:56)

My fellow citizens this nation of ourselves was not intended to have an all pervasive federal government, and it was not supposed to have a federal government that was steadily encroaching on our rights. It was not supposed to have a federal government that was steadily encroaching on the private sector by promising to take care of us from cradle to grave.

The founding fathers specifically enumerate a few powers for the federal government, and then to ensure that it did not go beyond these powers it passed an amendment stating that those rights not granted explicitly to the federal government were reserved to the states. There are also some items in the text of the Constitution that serve to illustrate the point that the founders did not want a all pervasive federal government, but a federal government that was strictly responsible for seeing to the defense of the nation, and the organization its legal system as well as ensuring that it was a union in fact, and not a collection of thirteen states.

There were a few powers stated as belonging to the Legislative Branch of the federal government.

1. Power to levy, and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises provided that they are uniform through out the United States.
2. Borrow money or secure credit in the name of the United States
3. Regulate commerce between the United States and foreign nations
4. Regulate interstate commerce
5. Regulate commerce between the states and Indian Tribes
6. Establish Rules of Naturalization (granting of Citizenship)
7. Establish Uniform Laws on the subject of bankruptcy
8. Coin money and regulate its value
9. Regulate the value of foreign money
10. Fix a standard of weights and measures
11. Provide a punishment for counterfeiting
12. Establish Post Offices and Post Roads
13. Grant Copyrights, Patents and Trademarks
14. Establish Courts Inferior to the Supreme Court
15. Define and Punish Piracies and felonies committed upon the high seas
16. Define and Punish offenses against the law of nations
17. Declare War
18. Grant Letters of Marque
19. Grant Letters of Reprisal
20. Make Rules regarding captures upon land and water
21. Raise and support armies, but not for a period longer than two years.
22. Provide and Maintain a Navy
23. Make Rules for the Regulation and Government of the land and naval forces.
24. Provide for the calling up of the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions.
25. Provide for the organization, arming and disciplining of the militia and for governing the part employed in the service of the United States, but not to appoint the officers or to train them.
26. Govern the seat of government (Washington, D.C.)
27. Make all laws that are necessary and proper for the carrying out of the above, and all other powers granted to the federal government by the Constitution

Very circumspect set of powers.

For the Executive Branch the duties and powers are even more circumspect.

1. Serve as Commander in Chief of the Military
2. Grant reprieves and pardons, except in cases of impeachment.
3. Make treaties with the consent of 2/3rds of the Senate
4. Select Officers, Ambassadors and other Office-Holders in the United States government including Supreme Court Justices with the approval and consent of the Senate
5. The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session. (of executive branch positions.)

Then there is the Judicial Branch
The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.

In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.

The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed.

The judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by citizens of another state, or by citizens or subjects of any foreign state.

Nothing here that states that the government has the ability to create additional laws that exceed the boundaries and limits placed upon it.

There is also the Bill of Rights:

So where does the government seek to get its power?

There is nothing in the United States Constitution that can be construed as giving it the ability to set up laws that prohibit certain goods. It does have the power to pass excises and imposts, but those should rightfully be limited by the 8th Amendment, because at some point the excises and imposts become the equivalent of excessive bail and fines.

The closest thing that the federal government has to being able to dictate what goods are legal for transportation is its ability to regulate interstate, foreign and inter-territorial commerce, but the ability to regulate can not be construed as the ability to control or prohibit the transport of certain goods.

There is also the fact that the federal government is exceeding the scope of its power by attempting to facilitate interstate commerce through the creation of the national highway system. This was not a power that was vested in the federal government under its ability to regulate interstate commerce.

Of course, there is the duty to regulate commerce between the United States and foreign nations, but that can only be seen as providing for the establishment of a border and port patrol to ensure that there is no smuggling of goods, but even then, since that power is not enumerated to the Congress (except for its power to support and maintain a navy) then this power should be delegated to the states.

It is even stated in the Constitution that this power is that of the states with its limitation


Then there is this clause


which clearly indicates that the federal government does not have the power to lay any taxes or any duties upon articles exported from any state.

There can be no logical conclusion drawn, but that the federal government is in gross violation of the Constitution with regard to the National Highway System, the maintaining of a standing army, and the establishment of the coast guard; which is not a navy, and is encroaching on what can only be seen as the duty of the states to secure their own sea borders.

There is also no providence for the formation of the DEA, nor for the formation of the Department of Education, nor the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Fire Arms), nor the CIA (which is separate from the military, but can be construed as being a military body, and thus the equivalent of a standing army.)

There is no providence for the formation of the Bureau of Land Management, because the powers exercised by the BLM are not delegated to it by the Constitution. There is no reason for the Bureau of Reclamation (Water Management in the West) which is taking over what can only be considered as the responsibility of the various states in the west.

Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, Center for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services should not exist. The government was not given the responsibility to monitor what the people of the United States eat, or don't eat, or drink or don't drink. There is no authority delegated to the government to attempt to Control and Prevent disease, which can only be seen as an attempt to try to look after the specific welfare of individuals, instead of the general welfare.

There is no reason for the existence for the Bureau of Homeland Security (BHS Bush's Horse Shit) because such a Bureau can only be seen as fulfilling the responsibilities of the state militias and thus has no legal standing to exist.

There is no reason for there to be a Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, which is usurping yet another duty that belongs to the states and not to the federal government.

It is important to note that there was no providence given for the states to delegate their powers to the federal government, and the federal government is strictly prohibited from exercises any additional powers outside of those enumerated by the Constitution.

Commission of Fine Arts, yet another bureaucracy that is wasteful and not provided for in the Constitution. The only responsibility that the government has is to grant copyrights, trademarks and patents. There is nothing that states that its job is to encourage art, or to grant money to artists. (Though it certainly does have that ability through appropriations, but once again that can be seen as the illegal usage of public funds, because their usage is not enumerated by the Constitution.)

Commission on Civil Rights, why do we need this? Why not just state categorically that all citizens of the United States are equal regardless of their ancestry, color, sex, height, weight, or sexual preferences, and as such have equal standing under law.

Which has already been stated, and does not need to be hammered out into details. There is also nothing in the text of the Constitution that grants government the ability to set minimum wages, or to dictate the ability of companies to determine that employment contracts have been broken, and thus the person so employed can be terminated.

There is nothing in the Constitution that can be construed as providing for the creation of the Department of Agriculture, or the Department of Energy, or the Department of Health & Human Services, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Department of Labor, the Department of the Interior.

There's nothing in the Constitution that justifies the existence of the Department of Transportation. It is not vested in the government of the United States the power to determine the methods by which goods are moved. The only power the United States government has is the ability to regulate, not control, direct, prohibit, encourage, or provide for, interstate commerce.

I could go on and on about the bloated behemoth that is our federal government, but for the sake of still having my sanity I am going to stop here.

The bottom line is that our federal government is a cancerous mob that is increasingly resembling the government of the Roman Empire prior to the cessation of that Empire to exist. It is a government that is continuously attempting to bribe the common people with more bread and more circuses (I can not think of any other term to describe the farces that are our national elections) while it increasingly taxes, and controls our lives.

I am sure that our founding fathers would be revolted to see how far we have gone from being a land of self-government to a land of dependency and blind devotion to a all encompassing federal government. I am sure that if they were here today the founding fathers would be laughing at us.

Benjamin Franklin would probably say, "I did warn you that you had a Republic, if you could keep it." with a snort of derision and disgust at the naivety and stupidity of our citizens.

I can only ask that everyone stops trying to ask what they can do for the government, or what the government can do for them, and ask what they can do for themselves. The first duty of the citizens of a free nation is to provide for themselves, and then to provide for the community. The very idea that the government has any reason to exist outside of those enumerated by the Constitution is ludicrous. Due to their usurpation of power the Federal Government is spending this country into bankruptcy and poverty. We were warned that we would wake up and see that the bankers owned our lands and our homes, but we were not warned that we would wake up to see that the bankers owned our government, as we clearly witnessed by the bail out.

Wake up people this is the real shit! Its what has made so many people want to be Americans. Dont let anyone ruin it for us. The US constitution is not a Document of Negative Rights and we dont need Income Distribution to be imposed by the courts as Obama stated in 2006! Its not what was intended for us by the people that wrote the documents. Open your minds and read it! Instead of thinking you allready know whats their! We need to be our own people and do for ourselves just as TheBrutalTruth said! Any honest person has to agree!

Welcome to the new world order. It's to late. The US was just clubbed like a baby seal. Obama was anointed by the globalists and it does not matter if the people don't want him or not. It's been a rigged game for a long time. You have no choice except revolution.

In the next 6-9 months the world will find a new reserve currency and that will be it for america. We will most likely default on our national debt and the wave of bankruptcies and foreclosures will overwhelm the country. Many people are leaving the country and others are buying land and getting ready for the storm.

Obama was selected for clean up crew and crowd control.

Welcome to the Banana Republic of America. You have been warned.


***Keep laughing, I was posting about a collapse about six months ago and I was scoffed at back then as I'm sure you will do now.

Arraya said:

Welcome to the new world order. It's to late. The US was just clubbed like a baby seal. Obama was anointed by the globalists and it does not matter if the people don't want him or not. It's been a rigged game for a long time. You have no choice except revolution.

In the next 6-9 months the world will find a new reserve currency and that will be it for america. We will most likely default on our national debt and the wave of bankruptcies and foreclosures will overwhelm the country. Many people are leaving the country and others are buying land and getting ready for the storm.

Obama was selected for clean up crew and crowd control.

Welcome to the Banana Republic of America. You have been warned.


***Keep laughing, I was posting about a collapse about six months ago and I was scoffed at back then as I'm sure you will do now.

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As long as people are willing to try fighting for freedom it is never too late, just that much harder.

The Constitution did lay out that the courts are able to interpret it, and that the legislature is able to amend it. So you also have to look at two centuries of amendments and Supreme Court decisions, all of which are part of this as well.

Doctor Pot said:

The Constitution did lay out that the courts are able to interpret it, and that the legislature is able to amend it. So you also have to look at two centuries of amendments and Supreme Court decisions, all of which are part of this as well.

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No, I'm pretty sure any attempt to interpret the Constitution in such a way as to grant the Federal Government more power would in violation of the 10th amendment which expressly prohibits the government from exercising any additional rights not given to it by the Constitution, and reserves them for the individual States and the People.

TheBrutalTruth said:

No, I'm pretty sure any attempt to interpret the Constitution in such a way as to grant the Federal Government more power would in violation of the 10th amendment which expressly prohibits the government from exercising any additional rights not given to it by the Constitution, and reserves them for the individual States and the People.

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"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States."

Directly from the Constitution. The Federal Government can create laws to collect taxes and provide for the general welfare of the United States. I noticed your paraphrasing of the Constitution doesn't include that bit. Who's reinterpreting now?

Oh what now you want to "return to our roots". Where the fuck were you when Bush and his rubber-stamp Republican congress were destroying the economy with runaway deficit spending, pursuing illegal and immoral wars, and wiping his ass with the constitution?

Something tells me that there's more than your love for the constitution at work here.

I'm pretty sure TBT didn't like that very much either. He's a libertarian type, not a Republican.

I think TBT only likes reading his own garbage here.

ElBarto said:

Oh what now you want to "return to our roots". Where the fuck were you when Bush and his rubber-stamp Republican congress were destroying the economy with runaway deficit spending, pursuing illegal and immoral wars, and wiping his ass with the constitution?

Something tells me that there's more than your love for the constitution at work here.

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No, I was too busy thinking that there were only two parties when Bush was elected, and was not familiar with the other parties.

I'm afraid that I was a victim of Republican Propaganda.

Doctor Pot said:

The Constitution did lay out that the courts are able to interpret it, and that the legislature is able to amend it. So you also have to look at two centuries of amendments and Supreme Court decisions, all of which are part of this as well.

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Please show where the courts can interpret the Constitution.

I believe that 'the pursuit of happiness' was one of the most hotly debated statement included in the Original Documents, simply because it was open to interpretation.

TheBrutalTruth said:

No, I was too busy thinking that there were only two parties when Bush was elected, and was not familiar with the other parties.

I'm afraid that I was a victim of Republican Propaganda.

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Sounds like a cop-out.

Doctor Pot said:

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States."

Directly from the Constitution. The Federal Government can create laws to collect taxes and provide for the general welfare of the United States. I noticed your paraphrasing of the Constitution doesn't include that bit. Who's reinterpreting now?

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You need to reread the Constitution, lad. The Founders were very careful with every word they placed within the document.

The Constitution states that Congress has the power to PROVIDE for the common defense and PROMOTE the general welfare. Big difference between "provide" and "promote," wouldn't you say?

In the minds of the Founders, based upon historical writings such as the Federalist Papers, the best way for the federal government to PROMOTE the general welfare, was for the federal government to stay the hell out of the way.

Vi

ViRedd said:

You need to reread the Constitution, lad. The Founders were very careful with every word they placed within the document.

The Constitution states that Congress has the power to PROVIDE for the common defense and PROMOTE the general welfare. Big difference between "provide" and "promote," wouldn't you say?

In the minds of the Founders, based upon historical writings such as the Federalist Papers, the best way for the federal government to PROMOTE the general welfare, was for the federal government to stay the hell out of the way.

Vi

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You're wrong. The exact quote is "... and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States." The verb "provide" is clearly the one used here. I take it this means you're going to stop posting those ridiculous right-wing articles now that the cornerstone of your philosophy has been invalidated?

Doctor Pot said:

You're wrong. The exact quote is "... and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States." The verb "provide" is clearly the one used here. I take it this means you're going to stop posting those ridiculous right-wing articles now that the cornerstone of your philosophy has been invalidated?

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provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States.

If that's the exact quote then you are showing that you are incapable of basic reading comprehension.

Provide for the Common Defense and General Welfare of the United States.

Not individuals, not any special interest group, not corporations, and small companies, and lobbyists, and lawyers, and teachers, and so and so forth, but the United States.

Not a group of people, but the country as a whole.

So, I think Vi is right, actually I take that back, I know Vi is right, because this is something that even a 4th grader should be able to parse and decipher.

The founders did not intend for the government to be butting into the business of individuals, nor did they intend for it to become this monstrous bloated bureaucracy that is screwing over the country as a whole for a small group of individuals (bankers and bureaucrats, but mostly bureaucrats).

Though the exact quote, since everyone here is apparently incapable of looking it up.

provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

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But it is important to note that there is nothing in that sentence, nor in the entire Constitution that authorizes the government to interfere with our lives.

There is in fact, however, an amendment that forces the government, or should force the government, to do the exact opposite.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

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Hey you guys know what else? The world is still flat and the moon is really made out of green cheese. You wanna really live by principles laid down by people centuries ago?

wannabe grower said:

Hey you guys know what else? The world is still flat and the moon is really made out of green cheese. You wanna really live by principles laid down by people centuries ago?

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Difference between principles and science, and actually it was hypothesized over 2,000 years ago by the Ancient Greeks that the Earth was a sphere.

Of course, based on your logic I should also feel guilty that some of the people that were in this country before I was held slaves, and were "mean" to the Indians.